I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian

A somewhat padded-out interview with Messrs Joyce and Gannon about the recent Classically Smiths debacle.

I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian
Three former members of the indie band were due to reunite for a series of gigs that fell apart as soon as they were announced. Mike Joyce and Craig Gannon explain why they tried to make it happen

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Related item:

• "Classically Smiths" shows no longer going forward - Mike Joyce, Craig Gannon statements on FB - Jan. 23, 2018

 

[Peppermint]

And it's funny how Mike and Andy thought they were equal members in the Smiths. To prove that this is untrue, all one has to do is to take a look at who out of the four went on to make great music.

equal members ?

'It is clear as a matter of partnership law that the fact that one or more partners makes a greater contribution than others in no way displaces the presumption of equality.' Lord Justice Waller, commenting on Morrissey's failed appeal.

 

[Anonymous]

A broken man? He WON the case. And he's a multi-millionaire.

No matter how many times you type 'BROKEN MAN' you ain't gonna change that sister.

If there is a broken man it is Andy Rourke who followed your "gentleman's agreement" bollocks and got severely shafted.

If he is a multi millionaire why did he allegedly use legal aid? A mean tested program for people on benefits?

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

The sad thing about these scum-sucking swines who denigrate the talent of Andy Rourke, Mike Joyce and Craig Gannon is that they are stamping on the legacy of The Smiths as one of the greatest groups in history. Thus other bands that were firing on all cylinders must be superior and The Smiths sink in the ranks of the musical pantheon.

"The Smiths were great but their rhythm section sucked" these psychophantic slags cry from their dirty little ant mouths.

"So they weren't that great then. Well I won't bother listening to them." comes the reply from would-be listeners.

And when you ask them what was wrong with the rhythm section's musicianship song by song they can't answer because really they just mean that they had the audacity to sue their lord and master for what was legally theirs.

If they were so shit then Morrissey and Marr must have been tone-deaf dumbf***s to hire them right?

Every great guitar based band has a great rhythm section, every single one including The Smiths. If you don't know that you have no place in this discussion.

 

[Flibberty]

And I have to laugh when some people think their opinion is somehow more valid or conclusive than somebody else's. Lighten up. We're all just speculating and putting our own particular slant on it, because none of us were actually there - including you.

Who said anything about "being there"?

And sorry, but the idea that Andy was anything like as talented as Johnny just strikes me as a massive stretch. It seems like some people don't like it when the rhythm section are criticized so tend to overreach in the opposite direction.

The truth is that Andy and Mike both fulfilled their roles well within The Smiths and made a solid contribution. Andy was certainly a fine bass player at that time. But in recent days we have had people saying that he was more important than Johnny (can't remember who made this comment) or as talented as him. I just don't see that as vaguely plausible considering their respective contributions then and their respective careers since.

 

[Peppermint]

Who said anything about "being there"?

And sorry, but the idea that Andy was anything like as talented as Johnny just strikes me as a massive stretch. It seems like some people don't like it when the rhythm section are criticized so tend to overreach in the opposite direction.

The truth is that Andy and Mike both fulfilled their roles well within The Smiths and made a solid contribution. Andy was certainly a fine bass player at that time. But in recent days we have had people saying that he was more important than Johnny (can't remember who made this comment) or as talented as him. I just don't see that as vaguely plausible considering their respective contributions then and their respective careers since.

Well, those are fair points, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of them, and I apologise if I have misread the tone of your post. I'm just a bit fed up with the arbiters of truth who like to quash any opinion which differs from theirs. I don't think anybody has the monopoly on interesting comments.

 

[swift eclipse]

You could substitute the word "Andy" for "Morrissey" and this first section would apply equally, if not more so. The difference between them is that Morrissey picked himself up and carried on. If Andy didn't put the work in for a career outside The Smiths, why should someone else do it for him? You make it sound as though Johnny ran cackling into the shadows and poor Andy was left there, on the scrapheap, forever more. In my mind, it is closer to the truth to say that he was simply lazy. By Andy's own admission, he wasn't ambitious - in 2013 he said he moved to New York because in England he was "....watching daytime TV and then four years pass by, and you think "Oh shit."'

Nah, your wrong. Johnny's a dick in this situation. 30 years of denying his old friend. f*** him. You see Andy as lazy. I see extremely laid back with a touch of PTSD. Also somewhat unlucky. Apparently, being in the Smiths wasn't always all that fun for Andy and then the best job he's ever had and the hope of a long, steady career (like one of his favorite bands the Stones has had) gets thrown away due to a couple of egomaniacs that can't sort shit out. He goes on to work with Sinead, Pretenders, Moz and just gets strung along by Johnny for 30 years. Yes, I said it again. 30 f***ing years of next to nothing from Johnny. Let that sink in. Now, he finally gets something going with Dolores O'Riordan and she dies suddenly. Guy can't win for losing. And I didn't characterize Johnny in the way you described at all, but your depiction fits perfectly. Goddamn, do you even realize what a cold, hard bitch you sound like about this. Quit acting like it would be some big deal for Johnny to work with Andy again. It would be nothing to Marr and everything to Andy.

 

[Flibberty]

Well, those are fair points, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of them, and I apologise if I have misread the tone of your post. I'm just a bit fed up with the arbiters of truth who like to quash any opinion which differs from theirs. I don't think anybody has the monopoly on interesting comments.

Hey, that's no problem and I appreciate that you can express your opinions in a mature fashion. Too few people on this board are capable of the same.

 

[Amy]

Nah, your wrong. Johnny's a dick in this situation. 30 years of denying his old friend. f*** him. You see Andy as lazy. I see extremely laid back with a touch of PTSD. Also somewhat unlucky. Apparently, being in the Smiths wasn't always all that fun for Andy and then the best job he's ever had and the hope of a long, steady career (like one of his favorite bands the Stones has had) gets thrown away due to a couple of egomaniacs that can't sort shit out. He goes on to work with Sinead, Pretenders, Moz and just gets strung along by Johnny for 30 years. Yes, I said it again. 30 f***ing years of next to nothing from Johnny. Let that sink in. Now, he finally gets something going with Dolores O'Riordan and she dies suddenly. Guy can't win for losing. And I didn't characterize Johnny in the way you described at all, but your depiction fits perfectly. Goddamn, do you even realize what a cold, hard bitch you sound like about this. Quit acting like it would be some big deal for Johnny to work with Andy again. It would be nothing to Marr and everything to Andy.

What a heap of piteous nonsense. Lots of people are unlucky, the music industry is like that. Alain Whyte, for example, was royally f***ed over and is still doing alright as far as I can see. Feel free to set up an Andy Rourke Benevolent Fund though, we'll throw a few fivers in... !

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

'It is clear as a matter of partnership law that the fact that one or more partners makes a greater contribution than others in no way displaces the presumption of equality.' Lord Justice Waller, commenting on Morrissey's failed appeal.

I'm not talking about the law, I'm talking about the heart !


and so.....

Joyce LOST.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Meanwhile in the real world

After a seven-day hearing, Judge Weeks found in favour blah blah blah blah blah blah ...

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

NOT EQUAL PARTNERS.







the 'real world' is greatly overrated

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Nah, your wrong. Johnny's a dick in this situation. 30 years of denying his old friend. f*** him. . Quit acting like it would be some big deal for Johnny to work with Andy again. It would be nothing to Marr and everything to Andy.

but why should he ?

 

[swift eclipse]

What a heap of piteous nonsense. Lots of people are unlucky, the music industry is like that. Alain Whyte, for example, was royally f***ed over and is still doing alright as far as I can see. Feel free to set up an Andy Rourke Benevolent Fund though, we'll throw a few fivers in... !

You're all heart, Amy.

 

[Surface]

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

NOT EQUAL PARTNERS.







the 'real world' is greatly overrated

Good one, still one of my favourite bands ever and they put on a wicked live show!

 

[swift eclipse]

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

NOT EQUAL PARTNERS.











the 'real world' is greatly overrated

Ahhhh, the Buzzcocks! Mike Joyce's favorite band. Who he lent his excellent drumming skills to for a while. Glad you are a fan of the great Mike Joyce, Setamine Kunt!

 

[Surface]

Ahhhh, the Buzzcocks! Mike Joyce's favorite band. Who he lent his excellent drumming skills to for a while. Glad you are a fan of the great Mike Joyce, Setamine Kunt!

He's done a few Buzzcocks related things since he played with the band as well. This was a great night where up and coming Manchester bands played Buzzcocks songs and Mike drummed on a few of them.

 

[Animalanonymous]

Thanks. That was excellent. Here's a fine interview :

Tks for this video

NB : the sophistication of Andy Rourke :
Yamaha BB2000 used to record Barbarism Begins At Home and once per show on the tour 85, for Meat Is Murder

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Setamine Kunt!

POTTY MOUTH !!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Ahhhh, the Buzzcocks! Mike Joyce's favorite band. Who he lent his 'excellent drumming skills' to for a while. Glad you are a fan of the great Mike Joyce.

I am a fan of Mike Joyces drumming. But he'll never be as talented as Marr, oops! I mean Maher.

 

[Anonymous]

Except for the fact that Johnny didn't write the basslines. Which in the case of Smiths songs, are songs in and of themselves. At the very least, Smiths songs would not be nearly as good without those basslines. Nobody made Moz and Marr do all that extra work. They were control freaks. They were never "Leiber and Stoller". They were in a band. With other musicians. That contributed greatly. Andy was Johnny's best friend for f***s sake. Andy inspired Johnny as they grew up. Johnny has made it clear that he looked up to Andy. He gave Johnny confidence and a sturdy backing. Andy was a musical genius in his own right and Johnny has continually downplayed this because it suits his narrative that he is the only musical star in the Smiths. Johnny has gone on to basically ignore Andy as a musician for his entire solo career. Apart from throwing him a bone by letting him up on stage for a song or two during a live show here and there. With friends like that who needs enemies. Andy was the SOUL of the Smiths. In more ways than one. Also, f*** everybody that doesn't like Mike's drumming. You aren't a fan of the Smiths. Just go listen to an all acoustic guitar band because you clearly don't know good drumming when you hear it.

I generally like Johnny Marr a lot and I've got much more respect for him than Morrissey, but I agree with you about Andy Rourke. He's a great bass guitarist and his melodic contribution to so many of the songs is phenomenal - very imaginative and inventive - in some instances it was indispensable. See Rusholme Ruffians for further details.

 

[Anonymous]

I did go on to say in another post in this same thread that Johnny doesn't owe Andy anything. I never said that Johnny had to foster Andy at all. Just that if there was someone who I'd expect to step up and utilize one of the best bassists of all time it would be Johnny f***ing Marr. You know, one of his best friends since they were children?! Someone he makes great music with. But instead to just walk away and be like "Good luck, mate. See ya around" That's bullshit. He shouldn't have treated his friend and colleague like that. It's not a good look. Andy deserved better and I don't really care if you think everybody should stand on their own and fight for themselves. f*** that. I help my friends out whenever I can. Because that's how I roll and I look down on people who don't. I'm a judgey motherf***er like that. Sue me. And you know better than anyone on this site that Johnny doesn't give a f*** about drug use. So that's no excuse. And frankly I have never subscribed to this notion that Johnny did Andy some big favor by letting him be in "his" band. Johnny was lucky to have Andy. Andy inspired and mentored Johnny as they grew up and Johnny has said so. But he has never recorded one song with him since the split. Not one. And you think that's too much to ask? What's so farcical about being a good friend? Nothing, but money changes everything.

Well said, mate, on both counts.