I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian

A somewhat padded-out interview with Messrs Joyce and Gannon about the recent Classically Smiths debacle.

I started something I couldn't finish: the Smiths reunion that wasn't - The Guardian
Three former members of the indie band were due to reunite for a series of gigs that fell apart as soon as they were announced. Mike Joyce and Craig Gannon explain why they tried to make it happen

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Related item:

• "Classically Smiths" shows no longer going forward - Mike Joyce, Craig Gannon statements on FB - Jan. 23, 2018

 

[Anonymous]

No. Drunk. The other three players had so much going on there was no need for fireworks from Mike. He just nailed it all together and stopped it spinning off the rails.

WOW, what a MAGNIFICENT defense of Our Drummer Boy Mike Joyce!!!!! you shut me down just like ole Mike did a bit ago no doubt.
Mike could go on and make his sucky drumming because the other three would pick up the slack!!!
you must be the ghost of Johnny Cochran!!! what a clever defense of Mike!!

not the other three, but Moz, the other three were pretty sucky all around. I mean, WTF, Johnny wont have Andy and Mike on his new sucky album.

 

[Anonymous]

Isn't it odd that someone chooses to spend their life as an anon on a website that discusses an artist and posts absolute gibberish that adds no value whatsoever? I think its about time the institutes for the mentally impaired restricted internet access to sites where their patients could learn something.

Now, Mike, thats not a very nice thing to say. what if the recording industry passed a prohibition
against sucky drummers?? you wouldnt like that would you, Mike?
I see you are getting mighty chummy with PeterB, getting very very chummy with the other side.

 

[Surface]

Now, Mike, thats not a very nice thing to say. what if the recording industry passed a prohibition
against sucky drummers?? you wouldnt like that would you, Mike?
I see you are getting mighty chummy with PeterB, getting very very chummy with the other side.

Still playing the village idiot I see.

 

[Surface]

Ha Ha Mike!! you got me there. you were taking the piss all this time with the vag jokes LOL
Mike you had me thinking you had given up the V for the D....
if you were only as good taking the piss as you are the tap tap taping on the drums.

In case you hadn't noticed, everyone is taking the piss out of you. Now ask your carer to clean your keyboard. You really shouldn't masturbate at the thought of getting a response from people, we are just stringing you along and you keep falling for it you silly little boy.

 

[swift eclipse]

Johnny marr in Record Collector 1992:

"The Smiths was me and Morrissey. It was me and Morrissey at the start. When we brought in Mike and Andy, it was made clear to them. It was unusual for the whole focus of the group to be around a songwriting team, but that was fundamental to the Smiths' ethic. When I went round to see Andy to ask him to join the group, I laid out the terms to be fair. I wanted this to be a new group with a realistic outlook. Myself and Morrissey had already started writing songs. At the initial meeting with Joe, we said if we can't find the right musicians, then we'll write songs a la Brill Building writers. We had all that space. Morrissey was saying 'I'd like to write a song for Sandie Shaw'. That was the way we felt. For my part, it was the Leiber/Stoller, Jagger/Richard, Lennon/McCartney vibe. So, from day one, Mike and Andy knew they didn't have to do 25% of the work in every area. That was the understanding. They could leave the studio whenever they were finished, and we couldn't. They could. We were the ones who had to deal with shit with Joe, shit with Scott and shit with Rough Trade. It suited Mike and Andy right down to the ground, because it was me and Morrissey that ran the group, and who physically did all the things except play live. All of us played live. In the studio, it was all of us doing the tapes, but everybody else skedaddled when their bit of work was done, whereas, me and Morrissey were together every single day."

Except for the fact that Johnny didn't write the basslines. Which in the case of Smiths songs, are songs in and of themselves. At the very least, Smiths songs would not be nearly as good without those basslines. Nobody made Moz and Marr do all that extra work. They were control freaks. They were never "Leiber and Stoller". They were in a band. With other musicians. That contributed greatly. Andy was Johnny's best friend for f***s sake. Andy inspired Johnny as they grew up. Johnny has made it clear that he looked up to Andy. He gave Johnny confidence and a sturdy backing. Andy was a musical genius in his own right and Johnny has continually downplayed this because it suits his narrative that he is the only musical star in the Smiths. Johnny has gone on to basically ignore Andy as a musician for his entire solo career. Apart from throwing him a bone by letting him up on stage for a song or two during a live show here and there. With friends like that who needs enemies. Andy was the SOUL of the Smiths. In more ways than one. Also, f*** everybody that doesn't like Mike's drumming. You aren't a fan of the Smiths. Just go listen to an all acoustic guitar band because you clearly don't know good drumming when you hear it.

 

[Anonymous]

Horse wank!

 

[Surface]

Whoa! There we go.
The algorithm has responded.
It is a self learning software so it dropped the 'wtf' and picked up the Mike Joyce trope.
The Cheshire references are interesting but obscure.
There is the usual mother fixated stuff.
(Can an algorithm lust for a mother?)
Next please.

Peter B just so you aware the Anon in question has been trolling the site for well over a year under a number of names he uses while still actually being an anon. He was banned under the name Biebs for responding to his own posts and also used the name Insp Jacques Clouseau. He's clearly a lonely individual with nothing better to do.

 

[Peppermint]

Except for the fact that Johnny didn't write the basslines. Which in the case of Smiths songs, are songs in and of themselves. At the very least, Smiths songs would not be nearly as good without those basslines. Nobody made Moz and Marr do all that extra work. They were control freaks. They were never "Leiber and Stoller". They were in a band. With other musicians. That contributed greatly. Andy was Johnny's best friend for f***s sake. Andy inspired Johnny as they grew up. Johnny has made it clear that he looked up to Andy. He gave Johnny confidence and a sturdy backing. Andy was a musical genius in his own right and Johnny has continually downplayed this because it suits his narrative that he is the only musical star in the Smiths. Johnny has gone on to basically ignore Andy as a musician for his entire solo career. Apart from throwing him a bone by letting him up on stage for a song or two during a live show here and there. With friends like that who needs enemies. Andy was the SOUL of the Smiths. In more ways than one. Also, f*** everybody that doesn't like Mike's drumming. You aren't a fan of the Smiths. Just go listen to an all acoustic guitar band because you clearly don't know good drumming when you hear it.

I do think Andy has suffered from not having the same drive and burning ambition as Johnny. It's a shame, because I suspect he's no less of a talent. Just one of those placid people who aren't good at pushing themselves forward. And I guess the heroin habit didn't help. And yes, I agree about Mike. Funny how he's become such a terrible drummer retrospectively. Don't remember anyone having a problem with him at the time.

 

[Anonymous]

In case you hadn't noticed, everyone is taking the piss out of you. Now ask your carer to clean your keyboard. You really shouldn't masturbate at the thought of getting a response from people, we are just stringing you along and you keep falling for it you silly little boy.

WtF Mike, my what? My 'carer'. WtF?? LOOLLL

Mike I hate to lay some negativity on you, i know your lack of drumming skills is burden enough, but
you shouldnt make fun of peeps with mental issues. Its downright wrong Mike. Look, Charlie Cheswick Fam
has struggled with bullying and other types of harassment due to autism and Autocheesburger Syndrome.
One of the kids draws dude pics and Buddha pics. Its a terrible situation. That 12 inches Aka Professional Victim Islamic Gay Dude has had depression and had to take those funny pills for many years. You know all this yet you make fun of the afflicted. Shame Shame on you, Mike.
Dont take out your drum trouble on the peeps who suffer.

However the kissy kissy thing with PeterB, is making tongues wag, capice Mike?

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

What you can say is that The Smiths would have sounded very different without Mike and Andy. Their parts were made by them. The way that the bass interplays with the guitar is unique to The Smiths, that was a massive part of the sound and despite The Smiths having a thousand imitators, Morrissey's band included, nobody has replicated them. All four Smiths were vital to the outcome, it's clear as long as you aren't partisan in one's favour.

 

[Anonymous]

Except for the fact that Johnny didn't write the basslines. Which in the case of Smiths songs, are songs in and of themselves. At the very least, Smiths songs would not be nearly as good without those basslines. Nobody made Moz and Marr do all that extra work. They were control freaks. They were never "Leiber and Stoller". They were in a band. With other musicians. That contributed greatly. Andy was Johnny's best friend for f***s sake. Andy inspired Johnny as they grew up. Johnny has made it clear that he looked up to Andy. He gave Johnny confidence and a sturdy backing. Andy was a musical genius in his own right and Johnny has continually downplayed this because it suits his narrative that he is the only musical star in the Smiths. Johnny has gone on to basically ignore Andy as a musician for his entire solo career. Apart from throwing him a bone by letting him up on stage for a song or two during a live show here and there. With friends like that who needs enemies. Andy was the SOUL of the Smiths. In more ways than one. Also, f*** everybody that doesn't like Mike's drumming. You aren't a fan of the Smiths. Just go listen to an all acoustic guitar band because you clearly don't know good drumming when you hear it.

Fing A, first Frik now Frak. Mike comes on here now you have to carry on. FFS.
Johnny spend days teaching you those rudimentary bass licks. for each and every song.
days it took, for him to clear the clusterflock you and Mike would create on your own.

You sued your good buddy FFS whats wrong with you, you now want him to feed you?
he takes you went he goes to the shopping center for an appearance show some love.

Frik and Frak were both sucky couldnt keep time. Studio dude had to fix their shit get
a grip.

 

[Peterb]

Peter B just so you aware the Anon in question has been trolling the site for well over a year under a number of names he uses while still actually being an anon. He was banned under the name Biebs for responding to his own posts and also used the name Insp Jacques Clouseau. He's clearly a lonely individual with nothing better to do.

Thank you Surface.
What a singular man.

 

[Anonymous]

Please let this 'story' sink without trace now. There must be more Mozz news by now. Has he bought a new shirt recently?

 

[swift eclipse]

I do think Andy has suffered from not having the same drive and burning ambition as Johnny. It's a shame, because I suspect he's no less of a talent. Just one of those placid people who aren't good at pushing themselves forward. And I guess the heroin habit didn't help. And yes, I agree about Mike. Funny how he's become such a terrible drummer retrospectively. Don't remember anyone having a problem with him at the time.

Have you ever met Andy, Peppermint? I have. Twice. He is a sweetheart. I have met lots of stars in my life. They are rarely like Andy. It breaks my heart that he hasn't been actively recording as a bassist since the Smiths. What a waste. Yes, he likes drugs. That sucks, because it has cost him in terms of reputation and possibly brainpower. You know how some people in life just need someone to protect them from themselves and guide them? I think that's Andy. With the right fostering he could have had a great career beyond the Smiths. Nobody cared. Most notably, Johnny. It was so important to Johnny that his solo career never be tainted by the Smiths stench that he has always refused to incorporate Andy in any meaningful way. God forbid people get the wrong idea. There's an interview that Andy did with Johnny on his radio show where Andy shyly suggested that maybe they could work together again and Johnny just brushes him off with "Yeah, someday, someday..." Brutal. I guess Johnny doesn't actually owe Andy anything, but Johnny loses a lot of respect in my eyes for ignoring his friend like this. Having never seen the Smiths live in person I would pay good money to watch Andy play those songs. Mike too. Hell, at the first U.S. Smiths Convention in '97 Mike jumped on the drums of the tribute band and played about 10 seconds of TQID. It was more exciting than whole concerts I've been to. Andy declined when offered the bass guitar.

 

[animalanonymous]

What you can say is that The Smiths would have sounded very different without Mike and Andy. Their parts were made by them. The way that the bass interplays with the guitar is unique to The Smiths, that was a massive part of the sound and despite The Smiths having a thousand imitators, Morrissey's band included, nobody has replicated them. All four Smiths were vital to the outcome, it's clear as long as you aren't partisan in one's favour.

Agree with your point
To learn more about this (Feb 2017) :
http://www.bassguitarmagazine.com/interviews/andy-rourke-the-smiths-dark-matters/

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

I do think Andy has suffered from not having the same drive and burning ambition as Johnny. It's a shame, because I suspect he's no less of a talent. Just one of those placid people who aren't good at pushing themselves forward. And I guess the heroin habit didn't help. And yes, I agree about Mike. Funny how he's become such a terrible drummer retrospectively. Don't remember anyone having a problem with him at the time.

I would think the heroin habit had a LOT to do why Andy was not more successful outside of the Smiths. He has admitted being an addict for 20 years. Johnny helped him in the Smiths because he valued Andy's talent and friendships, tried to get him away from bad influences (took him with him on the Red Wedge tour) and hid his habit from Morrissey, who fired Andy as soon as he found out. It was another stress factor in the band.

 

[Anonymous]

Some girl on a cruise ship that was on her way to Italy cause she and her mate were backpackers.

I think you missed my point. Try using the word WHO more often. Unless perhaps you work for the BBC as an announcer “draw-ring, saw-rit, lawrunnorder”...anyone.
Pilgrimupnorth

 

[Anonymous]

Agree with your point
To learn more about this (Feb 2017) :
http://www.bassguitarmagazine.com/interviews/andy-rourke-the-smiths-dark-matters/

Thanks. That was excellent. Here's a fine interview :

 

[Peppermint]

Have you ever met Andy, Peppermint? I have. Twice. He is a sweetheart. I have met lots of stars in my life. They are rarely like Andy. It breaks my heart that he hasn't been actively recording as a bassist since the Smiths. What a waste. Yes, he likes drugs. That sucks, because it has cost him in terms of reputation and possibly brainpower. I don't mean to be cruel, but he seemed childlike in his mental capacity when I talked with him. You know how some people in life just need someone to protect them from themselves and guide them? I think that's Andy. With the right fostering he could have had a great career beyond the Smiths. Nobody cared. Most notably, Johnny. It was so important to Johnny that his solo career never be tainted by the Smiths stench that he has always refused to incorporate Andy in any meaningful way. God forbid people get the wrong idea. There's an interview that Andy did with Johnny on his radio show where Andy shyly suggested that maybe they could work together again and Johnny just brushes him off with "Yeah, someday, someday..." Brutal. I guess Johnny doesn't actually owe Andy anything, but Johnny loses a lot of respect in my eyes for ignoring his friend like this. Having never seen the Smiths live in person I would pay good money to watch Andy play those songs. Mike too. Hell, at the first U.S. Smiths Convention in '97 Mike jumped on the drums of the tribute band and played about 10 seconds of TQID. It was more exciting than whole concerts I've been to. Andy declined when offered the bass guitar.

That's very interesting, Swifty. How did you come to meet him? Didn't Andy's mother abandon the family when he was quite young? I do think these traumas in early life can leave an indelible mark, and wonder whether this could partly account for his 'childlike' quality (as well as the drugs). Yes indeed, a great waste. I would feel wary of ascribing motives to Johnny, though. Some friendships are complicated, and while we love the people, it feels hard to be around them, for whatever reason. I have friends like this. Some of them come with trouble attached (such as booze or toxic friendships), and some just stir up memories which are too intense and it's easier to stay away. Maybe Johnny is a self-centred careerist, or maybe... it just feels complicated. Who knows?

 

[Anonymous]

Please let this 'story' sink without trace now. There must be more Mozz news by now. Has he bought a new shirt recently?

Sure has! ...and it’s GORGEOUS!!!