Der Spiegel audio file of Morrissey interview released

Here you go. The recording of the interview.

Der Audiomitschnitt zum SPIEGEL-Interview mit Morrissey - Spiegel Online
Sänger Morrissey fühlt sich nach einem Interview mit dem SPIEGEL falsch zitiert und will nun nie wieder mit Printmedien sprechen. Hören Sie hier den Mitschnitt des Interviews.

English version:

The Audio of DER SPIEGEL's Interview with Morrissey
British pop singer Morrissey has accused DER SPIEGEL of falsely quoting him in a recently published interview. The magazine stands behind its reporting and has made the decision to post the audio online in response.

On Friday, Nov. 10, DER SPIEGEL culture reporter Juliane Liebert told her editors that she had been offered an interview with British popstar Morrissey and that a decision needed to be made quickly on whether to accept. We agreed: The former lead singer of The Smiths doesn't shy away from speaking his mind - and he also doesn't grant interviews very often.

The following Monday, Liebert flew to Los Angeles, where she was to interview Morrissey on Tuesday. The interview appointment got delayed several times before finally taking place on Wednesday and lasting 40 minutes. Edited versions of interviews published in DER SPIEGEL are usually authorized by the interview subject before publication, consistent with established procedure in German journalism. But in this instance, Morrissey's team elected to forego authorization.

After its publication on Nov. 18 in DER SPIEGEL, the interview (available behind the SPIEGEL Plus paywall in German) generated headlines not only in the German-language media. English publications like the Independent also wrote about Morrissey's statements regarding Trump, Brexit, the #MeToo debate and questions of national identity.

The musician then sought to distance himself from the published interview. "Unless you see the words form in my mouth and then you see or hear the words come out of my mouth... please, if you don't see that, I didn't say them," he told fans at a concert. He said he would never grant an interview to a print journalist again.

On Monday, Morrissey followed up with a post on his official Facebook page casting doubt on whether his statements had been reflected accurately by DER SPIEGEL. He also alleged that the fact that the magazine had not yet posted the raw audio of the interview was tantamount to an indirect admission of guilt.

To counter that claim, the editors of DER SPIEGEL have decided to post the audio of the interview online.

You can listen to the interview conducted with Morrissey in Los Angeles on Nov. 15 here:

---

Posted by Famous when dead:

Interview mp3 - yours to keep:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dx1c0j
(the exact file as used on the site).



Media coverage:

• German News Site Releases Audio of Controversial Morrissey Interview: Listen - Pitchfork. Link posted by an anonymous person.
• Morrissey Really Did Say All Those Controversial Things, Newly Released Audio Proves - Uproxx. Link posted by BrummieBoy.
• German news site calls Morrissey's bluff, releases audio of him saying shitty things - AV Club. Link posted by BrummieBoy.
• Audio from Morrissey’s controversial interview has been released, and it proves he wasn’t misquoted - Consequence Of Sound. Link posted by BrummieBoy.
• The audio revealing Morrissey’s defence of Kevin Spacey has been released - Tone Deaf. Link posted by BrummieBoy.
• Der Spiegel releases full audio from Morrissey interview after singer refutes controversial remarks - The Independent. Link posted by Shyness 1s nice.
• Morrissey: Der Spiegel releases audio of controversial interview - BBC News. Link posted by Shyness 1s nice.
• Sorry Morrissey, Der Spiegel Has Audio Proof You're Still an Asshole - Noisey / VICE. Link posted by Shyness 1s nice.

---

Related item:

• Der Spiegel audio "to be released in the next days" - Juliane Liebert tweet - Dec. 11, 2017

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Mid sentence? Doubt it. She asks has Morrissey heard of Owen Jones (the UK left wing commentator), he begins to speak, then... gone. Furthermore, that's not the only obvious cut.

true. If we can not hear the question then how can we get a full understanding of his answer to it ?


.

 

[Oh my]

You seem to think that there is anyone within a hundred yards of Morrissey who isn't in service to his delusionality. He is a collapsed narcissist and will fight tooth and nail to avoid digesting this intrusion from consensual reality visited upon him by Juliane. The fact that it is a professional female journalist who has ended his career is more karmic justice given his appaling misogyny in lyrics and prose.

Morrissey is a laughing stock. There's no going back. This is it. He is FINISHED!

Oh Gosh...
Due to my activities I have to be in constant contact with artists (especially painters, writers, dancers, actors and sometimes musicians). I have NEVER talked to an artist who is not a narcissist.

You know, if you are NOT a narcissist, then you probably don't feel like you want to get onto a stage and begin to sing in front of hundreds of persons, nor you feel the need to hang a painting in a museum, nor you feel the need to write a book and make other people read it, nor you think that other persons want to see you dancing for 90 minutes, etc.

Morrissey is a narcissist for sure. I have never knew of an artist who isn't.

Morrissey is a damn legend... You are simply a fool posting in a forum.

As for artists surrounding themselves with persons who say "yes"... Most of the artists I know do it. Very few artists are very open minded when it comes to criticism of their work.

But you seem to be very happy believing that Morrissey is "finished", you don't fit into the "narcissist" category, but into the "frustrated loser" one.

 

[bhops]

No, your comment history offer nuance and critical thinking. I may not agree with your views but you clearly are able to articulate a version of reality that isn't ruthlessly scripted by whatever nonsense spews forth from The Delusional Dear Leader Morrissey. I am also quite sure that in real life you have more important things to do than endlessly cogitate on The Fall Of Morrissey. So do I. I've just had a great breakfast in this hotel and I'm passing time on the hotel lobby computer until my taxi arrives. The only discordant element in this scene is the fact that Ed Sheeran is on the hotel speakers. One does not come to Milano to listen to Ed Sheeran.

One is not born to listen to Ed Sheeran, yet here he is. I blame it on Tay Tay for giving him that massive career boost when she made him a squad member. Tay Tay is perfection on 2 (very long) legs but I can’t forgive her that.

 

[BrummieBoy]

Oh Gosh...
Due to my activities I have to be in constant contact with artists (especially painters, writers, dancers, actors and sometimes musicians). I have NEVER talked to an artist who is not a narcissist.

You know, if you are NOT a narcissist, then you probably don't feel like you want to get onto a stage and begin to sing in front of hundreds of persons, nor you feel the need to hang a painting in a museum, nor you feel the need to write a book and make other people read it, nor you think that other persons want to see you dancing for 90 minutes, etc.

Morrissey is a narcissist for sure. I have never knew of an artist who isn't.

Morrissey is a damn legend... You are simply a fool posting in a forum.

As for artists surrounding themselves with persons who say "yes"... Most of the artists I know do it. Very few artists are very open minded when it comes to criticism of their work.

But you seem to be very happy believing that Morrissey is "finished", you don't fit into the "narcissist" category, but into the "frustrated loser" one.

Kate Bush

Radiohead

Kraftwerk

Ludovico Einaudi

Sigur Ros

I know artists as well,, darling. It's entirely possible to be 'famous' and sane. None of the above are narcissists. All have normal relationships wth 'consensual reality' and listen to feedback from people outside whatever bubble hangers-on try to construct. The fact you hang with losers is your problem, not mine.

best
BB

 

[King Leer]

BB, you're assuming all fans of Morrissey hang on his every word the way you do and many of the frequenters here. Tons don't read Morrissey articles and just follow the music. Tons can't/don't bother to read English media, and may only peruse one summary in their local language, if at all. Tons don't give a shit even about what he does say -- he hasn't committed crimes. Most of the fans he's lost just got bored with Morrissey or music in general after 30+ years.

Some of Morrissey's comments are definitely uninformed. ...And?

Well, it's the bonfire of the vanities that is Morrissey-Solo, a decades long karaoke self-tribute to The Smiths so one would expect it to run and run......for eternity! Unless the site proprietor is intimidated into taking down this site....

Morrissey's career is now a corpse. He is now trapped with his most delusional 'fans' in a circle of hell that even Dante Alighero couldn't have conjured up.

Karma is a bitch, Steven. Suck it up...

 

[King Leer]

David T. -- is this news item one of the heavyweight champions in terms of comments? I seem to recall some over 500 since 1997, but not many. Cheers.

 

[BrummieBoy]

One is not born to listen to Ed Sheeran, yet here he is. I blame it on Tay Tay for giving him that massive career boost when she made him a squad member. Tay Tay is perfection on 2 (very long) legs but I can’t forgive her that.

I was at the 02 in London (in the Golden Circle at the front of the stage) the night Taylor brought Ed Sheeran onstage. He was a delightful little hobbit at the time, not an omnipresent annoyance factor. I have Irish ancestry so 'Galway Girl' rap is just too much.

My daughter has now flown the nest and is studying Astrophysics. It's getting harder to justify my obsession with Taylor, Katy and Miley now my grown-up daughter has moved on to Emo-Goth Grime or whatever it is her and her friends listen to in that student house in Leicester. She finds my continuing obsession with TS baffling. So do I. So does my psychiatrist. But Taylor understands....she texts me often and writes lovely comments on my Tumblr. Seriously.

What's funny is Ed probably thought he'd best TS with his sales this year. She just waited and watched then: BANG! She is such a wonderful advert for American Culture. I find her absolutely fascinating. A genuine star. Audrey Hepburn channeling Joni Mitchell in Crouch End. She lives in London now, by the way. Mostly. Under the radar. She has a clone to wander round Tribeca with the cats. That's how you play the 'fame game'. In London she is adored for her refusal to play the celebrity card and for her genuine interest in everything we Brits are. Exactly the opposite of when Madonna showed up expecting to be given the keys to the city. Don't work like that in London. Or Milan.....or Rome.....*wink*

I'm back in my hotel room now. My taxi re-arranged for later. I've got time to crack one off to Taylor....

"in the middle of the night, in my dreams, you should see the things we do...."

BB

ps: there's a lyric on 'Reputation' about Kanye that goes "i took a knife to a gun fight'. Morrissey took on Der Spiegel but not with a knife or a gun, just a water pistol. It's all rather sad, really, as he has such a beautiful voice. But the Bible warns us to beware of singing demonic serpents with bewitching voices.

 

[Anonymous]

Kate Bush

Radiohead

Kraftwerk

Ludovico Einaudi

Sigur Ros

I know artists as well,, darling. It's entirely possible to be 'famous' and sane. None of the above are narcissists. All have normal relationships wth 'consensual reality' and listen to feedback from people outside whatever bubble hangers-on try to construct. The fact you hang with losers is your problem, not mine.

best
BB

Missy 'Misdemeanor' Elliott

Don Dokken

Elton Jon Bon Jovi

 

[Anonymous]

David T. -- is this news item one of the heavyweight champions in terms of comments? I seem to recall some over 500 since 1997, but not many. Cheers.

This thread surely comes to mind. Although, of course, it doesn't qualify as news item.

https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...s-to-paedophiles-thecolemanexperience.132366/

 

[BrummieBoy]

BB, you're assuming all fans of Morrissey hang on his every word the way you do and many of the frequenters here. Tons don't read Morrissey articles and just follow the music. Tons can't/don't bother to read English media, and may only peruse one summary in their local language, if at all. Tons don't give a shit even about what he does say -- he hasn't committed crimes. Most of the fans he's lost just got bored with Morrissey or music in general after 30+ years.

Some of Morrissey's comments are definitely uninformed. ...And?

He has committed egregious crimes against musical, lyrical and literary taste and decency and must be punished appropriately. I do not hang on to his words. I regard him as a serious demonic entity who must be revoked. He summoned ZoZo with 'Ouija Board, Ouija Board'. ZoZo was not pleased as Morrissey is an eejit who knows Zero about that stuff yet thought he could play silly games as if he was a singing Jimmy Page. Twat. Now he has karmic pay-back.

Nobody gets 'bored with music'. Nietzsche: "without music, life would be a mistake"

His audience are broken-hearted at finally having to accept he's a total fraud. He played on sincerity, integrity and authenticity and now everyone who isn't a delusional Cult loon sees he has acted in Bad Faith since the start.

He must be punished. His reputation is in ruins, as is his legacy. Forgiveness is possible but can you really imagine Morrissey having the bollocks to say he's sorry, he f***ed up badly and he wants another chance? He wants to redeem himself? All is possible. I'm a devout Catholic. Nobody is beyond redemption but Morrissey faces an enormous purgatory of pain if he is to rise from the abyss he has plunged himself into. De Profundis? We shall see.....perhaps one day he'll thank me for trying to save his soul from hell...

best
BB
Milano

 

[King Leer]

You are laughing as you post all this stuff, right? Right?

He has committed egregious crimes against musical, lyrical and literary taste and decency and must be punished appropriately...

 

[Anonymous]

He has committed egregious crimes against musical, lyrical and literary taste and decency and must be punished appropriately. I do not hang on to his words. I regard him as a serious demonic entity who must be revoked. He summoned ZoZo with 'Ouija Board, Ouija Board'. ZoZo was not pleased as Morrissey is an eejit who knows Zero about that stuff yet thought he could play silly games as if he was a singing Jimmy Page. Twat. Now he has karmic pay-back.

Nobody gets 'bored with music'. Nietzsche: "without music, life would be a mistake"

His audience are broken-hearted at finally having to accept he's a total fraud. He played on sincerity, integrity and authenticity and now everyone who isn't a delusional Cult loon sees he has acted in Bad Faith since the start.

He must be punished. His reputation is in ruins, as is his legacy. Forgiveness is possible but can you really imagine Morrissey having the bollocks to say he's sorry, he f***ed up badly and he wants another chance? He wants to redeem himself? All is possible. I'm a devout Catholic. Nobody is beyond redemption but Morrissey faces an enormous purgatory of pain if he is to rise from the abyss he has plunged himself into. De Profundis? We shall see.....perhaps one day he'll thank me for trying to save his soul from hell...

best
BB
Milano

Special dedication to Brummie Boy. "Loves got me by the ass again" You just can't stop talking about Morrissey.

 

[Thewlis]

You seriously read any of DumbieBoy's posts?
I gave up on him years ago.
No asylum will take him on surely.

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

Kate Bush

Radiohead

Kraftwerk

Ludovico Einaudi

Sigur Ros

I know artists as well,, darling. It's entirely possible to be 'famous' and sane. None of the above are narcissists. All have normal relationships wth 'consensual reality' and listen to feedback from people outside whatever bubble hangers-on try to construct. The fact you hang with losers is your problem, not mine.

best
BB

The best example of all is perhaps Bob Dylan. He is an intensely private man. He played the media game in the early days but gave it up long ago.

Back to Morrissey. Firstly, I don’t think he is all that bright. Really clever people don’t get themselves in the sort of media storms that regularly engulf him. He’s brilliant at what he does but he is a cultural magpie. That isn’t intended as a slight, by the way.

We bandy about the word genius far too often in this world. I’m reminded of the Orson Welles quote when asked if he was a genius: “What does that even mean? There have probably only been three real geniuses this [20th] century; Picasso, Einstein and some guy in China nobody has ever heard of.”

Morrissey absorbs influences from elsewhere and (in the nicest sense of the word, not that there is one) regurgitates it into something else. Those early Smiths releases, from the music to the packaging screamed kitchen sink drama and that Cathy Come Home gritty realism that emerged in 60s Britain. It was interesting listening to the Set The Boy Free audiobook recently to hear how both Morrissey and Marr knew exactly what they intended to do down to the colour of the label and even the colour of the font of that label they wanted for the first single. In the introduction to The South Bank Show Smiths programme Melvyn Bragg tells older viewers they might find the Smiths influences “surprisingly comforting.” That’s essentially a nice way of saying it’s been done before.

Returning to the Spacey issue, although Morrissey in typical fashion jumped in with both feet there is a grain of truth in what he says, and perhaps that is the core of the outrage. When, in my youth, I would on occasion go back to a young lady’s home late at night I wasn’t there to play Scrabble. I had a more... Twister... type game on my mind.

Leaving aside the youth of one of the alleged victims, which is inexcusable if it happened, adults do still, even now, have a smidgen of responsibility for their own actions. I guarantee anyone reading this could identify a part of their town or city they would not wish to find themselves at two in the morning. As my town becomes less like Hobbiton by the week, I wouldn’t walk through the park late at night. I learnt recently that heroin could be bought actually on my road, behind the church, which means I would have to walk further to buy milk. That’s pretty extraordinary in a once quiet town to the west of London.

If Morrissey was inelegantly trying to explain the dangers of leaping to conclusions based on allegations rather than proof, then he was right. If he chose to tackle that incredibly nuanced view to someone who doesn’t speak English as a first language then he is a blithering idiot. Yesterday a Kentucky representative killed himself after allegations were levelled against him. A few weeks ago a member of the Welsh Assembly committed suicide under similar circumstances.

As we tumble forward into the twenty-first century we seem also to be looking back, not as Morrissey and Marr did to the 1960s, but to the 1660s. Driven by third wave feminism there is a whiff of a new Puritanism and witchhunt in the air. “[Much, much] older viewerf may find it furprifingly comforting.”

The careers of both Spacey and Weinstein are over. Good. However, until they are put before a judge and jury and found guilty they are innocent. That isn’t controversial, however much some here might not like to hear it. It’s a cast iron, cold fact.

 

[bhops]

The best example of all is perhaps Bob Dylan. He is an intensely private man. He played the media game in the early days but gave it up long ago.

Back to Morrissey. Firstly, I don’t think he is all that bright. Really clever people don’t get themselves in the sort of media storms that regularly engulf him. He’s brilliant at what he does but he is a cultural magpie. That isn’t intended as a slight, by the way.

We bandy about the word genius far too often in this world. I’m reminded of the Orson Welles quote when asked if he was a genius: “What does that even mean? There have probably only been three real geniuses this [20th] century; Picasso, Einstein and some guy in China nobody has ever heard of.”

Morrissey absorbs influences from elsewhere and (in the nicest sense of the word, not that there is one) regurgitates it into something else. Those early Smiths releases, from the music to the packaging screamed kitchen sink drama and that Cathy Come Home gritty realism that emerged in 60s Britain. It was interesting listening to the Set The Boy Free audiobook recently to hear how both Morrissey and Marr knew exactly what they intended to do down to the colour of the label and even the colour of the font of that label they wanted for the first single. In the introduction to The South Bank Show Smiths programme Melvyn Bragg tells older viewers they might find the Smiths influences “surprisingly comforting.” That’s essentially a nice way of saying it’s been done before.

Returning to the Spacey issue, although Morrissey in typical fashion jumped in with both feet there is a grain of truth in what he says, and perhaps that is the core of the outrage. When, in my youth, I would on occasion go back to a young lady’s home late at night I wasn’t there to play Scrabble. I had a more... Twister... type game on my mind.

Leaving aside the youth of one of the alleged victims, which is inexcusable if it happened, adults do still, even now, have a smidgen of responsibility for their own actions. I guarantee anyone reading this could identify a part of their town or city they would not wish to find themselves at two in the morning. As my town becomes less like Hobbiton by the week, I wouldn’t walk through the park late at night. I learnt recently that heroin could be bought actually on my road, behind the church, which means I would have to walk further to buy milk. That’s pretty extraordinary in a once quiet town to the west of London.

If Morrissey was inelegantly trying to explain the dangers of leaping to conclusions based on allegations rather than proof, then he was right. If he chose to tackle that incredibly nuanced view to someone who doesn’t speak English as a first language then he is a blithering idiot. Yesterday a Kentucky representative killed himself after allegations were levelled against him. A few weeks ago a member of the Welsh Assembly committed suicide under similar circumstances.

As we tumble forward into the twenty-first century we seem also to be looking back, not as Morrissey and Marr did to the 1960s, but to the 1660s. Driven by third wave feminism there is a whiff of a new Puritanism and witchhunt in the air. “[Much, much] older viewerf may find it furprifingly comforting.”

The careers of both Spacey and Weinstein are over. Good. However, until they are put before a judge and jury and found guilty they are innocent. That isn’t controversial, however much some here might not like to hear it. It’s a cast iron, cold fact.

A really interesting and thoughtful response, thanks for taking the time to post it up

 

[Anonymous]

What a charming young man

 

[Lustman]

Morrissey on the cross of the new good thinking.
People seam to be more and more fascist tendencies.
I'm afraid... That the poor asexual Morrissey is accused of rapping.
What rubbish !

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

The best example of all is perhaps Bob Dylan. He is an intensely private man. He played the media game in the early days but gave it up long ago.

Back to Morrissey. Firstly, I don’t think he is all that bright. Really clever people don’t get themselves in the sort of media storms that regularly engulf him. He’s brilliant at what he does but he is a cultural magpie. That isn’t intended as a slight, by the way.

We bandy about the word genius far too often in this world. I’m reminded of the Orson Welles quote when asked if he was a genius: “What does that even mean? There have probably only been three real geniuses this [20th] century; Picasso, Einstein and some guy in China nobody has ever heard of.”

Morrissey absorbs influences from elsewhere and (in the nicest sense of the word, not that there is one) regurgitates it into something else. Those early Smiths releases, from the music to the packaging screamed kitchen sink drama and that Cathy Come Home gritty realism that emerged in 60s Britain. It was interesting listening to the Set The Boy Free audiobook recently to hear how both Morrissey and Marr knew exactly what they intended to do down to the colour of the label and even the colour of the font of that label they wanted for the first single. In the introduction to The South Bank Show Smiths programme Melvyn Bragg tells older viewers they might find the Smiths influences “surprisingly comforting.” That’s essentially a nice way of saying it’s been done before.

Returning to the Spacey issue, although Morrissey in typical fashion jumped in with both feet there is a grain of truth in what he says, and perhaps that is the core of the outrage. When, in my youth, I would on occasion go back to a young lady’s home late at night I wasn’t there to play Scrabble. I had a more... Twister... type game on my mind.

Leaving aside the youth of one of the alleged victims, which is inexcusable if it happened, adults do still, even now, have a smidgen of responsibility for their own actions. I guarantee anyone reading this could identify a part of their town or city they would not wish to find themselves at two in the morning. As my town becomes less like Hobbiton by the week, I wouldn’t walk through the park late at night. I learnt recently that heroin could be bought actually on my road, behind the church, which means I would have to walk further to buy milk. That’s pretty extraordinary in a once quiet town to the west of London.

If Morrissey was inelegantly trying to explain the dangers of leaping to conclusions based on allegations rather than proof, then he was right. If he chose to tackle that incredibly nuanced view to someone who doesn’t speak English as a first language then he is a blithering idiot. Yesterday a Kentucky representative killed himself after allegations were levelled against him. A few weeks ago a member of the Welsh Assembly committed suicide under similar circumstances.

As we tumble forward into the twenty-first century we seem also to be looking back, not as Morrissey and Marr did to the 1960s, but to the 1660s. Driven by third wave feminism there is a whiff of a new Puritanism and witchhunt in the air. “[Much, much] older viewerf may find it furprifingly comforting.”

The careers of both Spacey and Weinstein are over. Good. However, until they are put before a judge and jury and found guilty they are innocent. That isn’t controversial, however much some here might not like to hear it. It’s a cast iron, cold fact.

There's a documentary on BBC Iplayer about Male Rape. Worth a watch. Some of the accounts say that the people who were raped were intending to have sex with their rapists anyway but the person they were with turned either weird of violent and they changed their mind. After that is when the rapes occured. Going back to somebody's place doesn't = consent. To use an analogy, my old Step Dad was perfectly behaved outside of the house but inside he was a f***ing monster - I should clarify that he was a violent bully rather than a sex abuser. Sometimes people behave very differently behind closed doors and you have to account for that rather than saying, well they went to their room so...

On your last point I agree and the disclosing of sexual offenders in the media is problematic, on the one hand it might make other victims come forward, on the other, you're pretty much seen as guilty forever whether you're innocent or guilty.

 

[Kewpie]

BB, you're assuming all fans of Morrissey hang on his every word the way you do and many of the frequenters here. Tons don't read Morrissey articles and just follow the music. Tons can't/don't bother to read English media, and may only peruse one summary in their local language, if at all. Tons don't give a shit even about what he does say -- he hasn't committed crimes. Most of the fans he's lost just got bored with Morrissey or music in general after 30+ years.

Some of Morrissey's comments are definitely uninformed. ...And?

FYI: https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/new-album-cover.89782/

https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...an-mean-you-are-a-better-morrissey-fan.83661/

 

[Johnny Barleycorn]

There's a documentary on BBC Iplayer about Male Rape. Worth a watch. Some of the accounts say that the people who were raped were intending to have sex with their rapists anyway but the person they were with turned either weird of violent and they changed their mind. After that is when the rapes occured. Going back to somebody's place doesn't = consent. To use an analogy, my old Step Dad was perfectly behaved outside of the house but inside he was a f***ing monster - I should clarify that he was a violent bully rather than a sex abuser. Sometimes people behave very differently behind closed doors and you have to account for that rather than saying, well they went to their room so...

On your last point I agree and the disclosing of sexual offenders in the media is problematic, on the one hand it might make other victims come forward, on the other, you're pretty much seen as guilty forever whether you're innocent or guilty.

I had exactly the same situation with my dad. A nasty piece of work in the house and a hale fellow well met outside. His family and friends would not have recognised him as being the same person. Presumably one of the reasons why he went to great lengths to make sure the two sides never met.

If we as societies can extend the presumption of innocence until otherwise determined to Herman Goering we can certainly do it for Spacey and Weinstein. Had Hitler lived to stand trial he too would have been presumed innocent as odd as that might sound, although admittedly I doubt you’d fancy being the defence lawyer. It is a central tenet of advanced judicial systems that even those who refuse to plead have the plea of not guilty entered by the judge.

Harvey Weinstein didn’t invent the casting couch, even if he exploited it ruthlessly and I can’t be the only person to have watched a [insert name of a famous actress you dislike here] movie and wondered to myself just how the hell she got there, can I? There are more than few Oscar winning actresses whose success has seemed quite mysterious. I’m talking to you, Gloria Swanson, you old slag. [Checks Wikipedia to make sure she’s definitely dead and not hanging on at 118.]

The old Kings of Europe were using much the same methods centuries ago. It’s obviously pretty unsavoury if some young actress had to watch Harvey Weinstein have a wank, but to put it into some slight perspective Anne Boleyn got her head chopped off in her search for career advancement. Diana’s ended in the Alma tunnel. Without getting too Sliding Doors about it they might well have lived into advanced old age (about forty-one in Anne’s case...) without the lure of the ultimate prize. Were they victims or players in a game they lost? Fame, fame, fatal fame.

“He touched my knee in ‘93” isn’t actually a crime, despite the hysterical media reaction in some quarters, and I’d much rather live in a nation of laws than not, as imperfect as that system might sometimes be. To consider knee touching a sexual assault is an insult to those who have actually been sexually assaulted. The British Defence Secretary recently resigned for touching a journalist’s knee a couple of decades ago, even though she says even today that she didn’t mind and simply told him to move his hand or lose it.

If you cast your mind back to the US election and the outrage of Trump’s pussy grabbing comments it is interesting to note how many women subsequently voted for him. The BBC and CNN and others assumed that was a fatal blow to his campaign, but what they didn’t factor in was that most women are used to dealing with idiot priapic men and just shrug “Well, he’s a man.” They deal with it in the same way we men accept the occasional downsides of living cheek by jowl with women. Considering we are the same species we are very, very different creatures.

It is not uncommon in the UK to read of child murderers getting fifteen years. Even to someone of my age, who might squeeze another three World Cups in with a bit of luck, that seems on the extreme side of insufficient, and yet, that is one of the possible judicial outcomes society has mandated for that heinous crime. Simply put, if you don’t have a functioning rule of law you don’t have a functioning society. “Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?”

When Weinstein and Spacey get nicked, as they surely will at some point, and ultimately get convicted, as well they might, we can then say they are guilty of crimes which actually exist on the statute books. Until then, they simply remain a couple of sad old perverts, worthy, so far, only of our disdain.