Bid (Monochrome Set) - Morrissey/Marr mentions in Louder Than War Interview

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mcrickson, Sep 27, 2019.

By mcrickson on Sep 27, 2019 at 12:58 PM
  1. mcrickson

    mcrickson Reckless Endangerment

    Dec 16, 2007
    The Monochrome Set: Interview - Louder Than War

    ...“There have been so many lies in the press about Morrissey, it’s hard to know what’s true and what’s not.”

    It’s well known that both Morrissey and Marr* were greatly influenced by The Monochrome Set, and the conversation has strayed early onto the subject of whether it’s possible to continue to like his music when the man’s utterances and politics had become so unpalatable to so many.

    “But yes, I think it is” Bid explains, “Maybe he’s not aware that he’s not the one who wrote those beautiful melodies and haunting lyrics. There’s something inside that takes over. Creativity comes from that primal part of the brain and it cannot be affected by immediate emotions, it’s detached. I think if you’re a writer, deep in the core you know this, it’s like a vocation, its not you.”

    ...“So yes, maybe he’s not aware he’s not the one who wrote those beautiful songs, not his conscious self anyway. Perhaps he thinks he’s a genius but that creative creature inside him probably isn’t interested in what he’s spouting.”

    Marr mention:

    “It was Steve [Brummel, the group's previous drummer] who told me what Johnny Marr said. It was after we’d played at some weekender festival, in Bognor I think. I’d left after we played but Steve hung around and got into a chat with Johnny who told him ‘You wouldn’t believe how much guitar I nicked from Monochrome Set’, well I listened and listened and I couldn’t hear it, but hey, there you go!”

    He pauses again for breath.

    “And so yeah, perhaps Morrissey is responding to people’s adulation, but it’s not him doing the creating, it’s something inside, something he’s not aware of.”

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2019
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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mcrickson, Sep 27, 2019.

    1. Anonymous
      don't do drugs kids!
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    2. ThePoliticalRevolution
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    3. ThePoliticalRevolution
      I listen to Monochrome Set when I am in very specific mood and it must be said that I'd rather listen to them on repeat than any modern pop music.

      • Like Like x 1
    4. Anonymous
      ...“So yes, maybe he’s not aware he’s not the one who wrote those beautiful songs, not his conscious self anyway. Perhaps he thinks he’s a genius but that creative creature inside him probably isn’t interested in what he’s spouting.”

      Rubbish. If you're making the free will argument, you have to apply it to everything. You can't say: "The things Morrissey's said that I like came from his subconscious mind, but the things he said that I don't like came from his conscious mind." It's complete nonsense saying that Morrissey should be held accountable for what he says politically while asserting that he shouldn't be praised for what he's said artistically.

      He's cherry-picking from the argument against free will.
      Here it is if you're unfamiliar:

      You can only ever do anything if you want to do it or you're forced to do it.
      There's an underlying desire within every action. Even in the case of going to the gym even though you don't really feel like doing so. In that case, your desire to lose weight might outweigh (pun intended) your aversion to exercise. If your aversion to exercise outweighed your desire to lose weight, you wouldn't go to the gym. This logic applies to every human action.
      You can't control what you want to do. Your desires come from your subconscious mind.
      You go to an ice cream shop. Why? Because you want ice cream. Why? Well, you just do. You pick cotton candy ice cream. Why? Because it's your favorite. Why? Because it just is. You have no control over what you like, want, or are convinced by. Most people understand this to a certain degree from experience. You wouldn't fault someone for disliking tomatoes, because you know they have no choice in the matter. When it comes to opinions, however, people often assume that others have a choice about what they believe. (You don't choose to be convinced by a certain argument. You just are. Just like some people just are convinced by the other side.) Our whole legal system is founded on the belief that criminals could've chosen not to commit crimes. Both your beliefs and your actions are predicated on your subconsciously formed desires.
      If you're forced to do something, it isn't free will.
      That's a given.
      Therefore, you don't have free will.

      The point is, if you don't have free will, you're not responsible for anything you do, whether it be charity or murder.
      (I'm willing to debate the premises should anyone disagree).

      I do love the Monochrome Set. That's all, folks.
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    5. countthree
      This man is insulting Morrissey and I don't like it. I prefer honest haters.
    6. Ketamine Sun
    7. vegan cro spirit 444
      vegan cro spirit 444
      Its not Moz who makes the music nooooooooooo.. its a molecule inside the brain...that all creative people have.
      how does this nutjob explain the froggy comet sucky :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft: 'creativity':lbf:
      • Funny Funny x 1
    8. marred
      I'm going to need a bigger shovel because this bullshit is really piling up.
      • Informative Informative x 1
    9. Anonymous
      Isn't he, in simple terms, saying that the stuff Moz wrote (genius stuff to my mind) came from 'inside' (from the heart, from the soul) as opposed to consciously starting out with 'I'm going to write a song about [insert subject matter]'?
      Sorta makes sense in an arty kinda way...
    10. The Truth
      The Truth
      It's kind of true that the part that comes up with songs is different and more intuitive than the logical part that comes up with things said in everyday speech. Einstein said some of his work was inspired and just came to him bypassing logic. It's why we "sleep on it" when making a decision sometimes to get past the conscious mind.
      But I think it's for the writer to say whether or how they thought of or wrote their ideas or work.
      • Informative Informative x 1
    11. vegan cro spirit 444
      vegan cro spirit 444

      logic comes up with the things said in everyday speech???:crazy:
      Einstein bypassed logic and used the music molecule??:crazy::crazy:
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    12. The Truth
    13. ninetimesfined
      I think Morrissey mentions the Monochrome Set quite a lot, pre-Smiths - I think - in the letters he sent to pen friend Robert Mackie.

      Moz must have gone off them after a while as I don’t recall him ever mentioning them in interviews or citing them as an influence outside of these instances.

      I also believe the Smiths were influenced by their sound.

      they’re a good band and still going. Their first two albums are astounding, particularly the instrumentals on the first.
      • Informative Informative x 1
    14. Bandwagonesque
      Correct me if I'm misrepresenting what you're saying, as I don't fully understand.
      Einstein wasn't an artist. Aren't you saying that logic can be intuitive as well? I agree with that, but it seems to contradict your whole point.
      How do you know what to say at any given time? If nothing pops into your head, you don't say anything. I'd argue that the same intuition that leads one's creative mind also leads one's logical mind- and I can use your example of Einstein to prove my point.
    15. vegan cro spirit 444
    16. vegan cro spirit 444
      vegan cro spirit 444
      it would not be a genuine Untruth post if its not chock full of contradictions.:lbf:
    17. The Truth
      The Truth
      Intuition is like an idea arriving fully formed. I'm not sure we can say where it comes from and it's possible that it is the product of logic but not consciously. What I mean is it could be like a lot of information is taken in first and that information may have connections which are logical and can later be proven. But the connections are not known. Then somehow the mind through a process we're not sure of becomes aware of the connections as the information is processed at a deeper level, and somehow becomes aware of holding this knowledge.
      A completely different example is Keith Richards said something about how his best songs arrived fully formed. He said it's like being an antennae and picking up a signal that already exists. So it can seem inspired, and I've seen other songwriters say that they didn't really write the song, it was just there. That's probably not true because it would require some kind of "universal mind" and it's simpler to believe that it comes from listened to music, playing music, maybe accessing parts of the brain involved in writing music, and possibly internalizing that process so that things can happen without direct knowledge.
      You can be as mystical or as practical about it as you want, whatever suits you.
      And the song that just appeared will be logical. It will make sense according to the rules of musical theory and will be something that someone could have arrived at through creating musical exercises at random.
      It isn't that the information is not logical, but it does not arrive through conscious use of logic. To find the logic is almost like reverse engineering. It's there but you have to take the song or equation apart to find it.
      When I said "everyday speech" that probably wasn't a very clear way to say it or a good example as like you say, it's sort of automatic.
      Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
    18. vegan cro spirit 555
      vegan cro spirit 555
      Intuition is like an IDEA FULLY FORMED???? WTF?????? nobody can make more contradictions in one sentence than Untruth FFS!!:lbf: I thought Intuition was PRE idea.:crazy:
      and rational logical thought is like an IDEA UNFORMED? :crazy:
    19. The Truth
      The Truth
      How can you express something that is "PRE idea?"
      Oh, wait, I've seen your posts.

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