Bid (Monochrome Set) - Morrissey/Marr mentions in Louder Than War Interview

The Monochrome Set: Interview - Louder Than War
Excerpt:

...“There have been so many lies in the press about Morrissey, it’s hard to know what’s true and what’s not.”

It’s well known that both Morrissey and Marr* were greatly influenced by The Monochrome Set, and the conversation has strayed early onto the subject of whether it’s possible to continue to like his music when the man’s utterances and politics had become so unpalatable to so many.

“But yes, I think it is” Bid explains, “Maybe he’s not aware that he’s not the one who wrote those beautiful melodies and haunting lyrics. There’s something inside that takes over. Creativity comes from that primal part of the brain and it cannot be affected by immediate emotions, it’s detached. I think if you’re a writer, deep in the core you know this, it’s like a vocation, its not you.”


...“So yes, maybe he’s not aware he’s not the one who wrote those beautiful songs, not his conscious self anyway. Perhaps he thinks he’s a genius but that creative creature inside him probably isn’t interested in what he’s spouting.”

Marr mention:

“It was Steve [Brummel, the group's previous drummer] who told me what Johnny Marr said. It was after we’d played at some weekender festival, in Bognor I think. I’d left after we played but Steve hung around and got into a chat with Johnny who told him ‘You wouldn’t believe how much guitar I nicked from Monochrome Set’, well I listened and listened and I couldn’t hear it, but hey, there you go!”

He pauses again for breath.

“And so yeah, perhaps Morrissey is responding to people’s adulation, but it’s not him doing the creating, it’s something inside, something he’s not aware of.”

 
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vegan cro spirit 555

Guest
How can you express something that is "PRE idea?"
Oh, wait, I've seen your posts.


doh:

time and space is intuition FFS not ideas. ideas are concepts not intuitions.:crazy:

if we already have FULLY FORMED ideas from intuitiondoh: what would be the sense of
logic reason and science.doh::rolleyes:
 
V

vegan cro spirit 555

Guest
:straightface:

you got your
fully formed idea:straightface:
and of course, your fully unformed idea.:rock:

o_O
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
It's kind of true that the part that comes up with songs is different and more intuitive than the logical part that comes up with things said in everyday speech. Einstein said some of his work was inspired and just came to him bypassing logic. It's why we "sleep on it" when making a decision sometimes to get past the conscious mind.
But I think it's for the writer to say whether or how they thought of or wrote their ideas or work.

I know artists (& most creative people) are usually out of touch with ‘reality’ and social norms (& thank god for that!) but Bid makes it sound like Morrissey is schizophrenic.

All of a sudden people think they got Morrissey all figured out. But they are as lost as they always were.


:cool:
 

The Truth

about Ruth
I have no idea who these people are. When they were "popular" I was probably listening to Judas Priest.
I know artists (& most creative people) are usually out of touch with ‘reality’ and social norms (& thank god for that!) but Bid makes it sound like Morrissey is schizophrenic.

All of a sudden people think they got Morrissey all figured out. But they are as lost as they always were.


:cool:
I don't see it that way exactly but I get what you mean. Whatever it is he's talking about someone's creative process and how their mind works like he's studied them for years. Really it's just a way to sound clever and "explain" how he can like the music without liking the person or liking what they do or say.
That's an argument that comes up all the time, too. Can you "separate the artist from the art?"
So it's nothing new. But honestly if I ever heard of these people before I forgot so if they're getting some publicity off of it I'll forgive them because it's much needed.
 
V

vegan cro spirit 555

Guest
right. like you can separate the awful comet music from :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft: :lbf:
with his plastic:guardsman: and cometeer outfit and all the cheeky tats all over himself.:lbf:
easy divisible.

anybody off the street with a bizarre musical perception brain molecule can make
that type of sucky music.:crazy:
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
Intuition is like an idea arriving fully formed. I'm not sure we can say where it comes from and it's possible that it is the product of logic but not consciously. What I mean is it could be like a lot of information is taken in first and that information may have connections which are logical and can later be proven. But the connections are not known. Then somehow the mind through a process we're not sure of becomes aware of the connections as the information is processed at a deeper level, and somehow becomes aware of holding this knowledge.
A completely different example is Keith Richards said something about how his best songs arrived fully formed. He said it's like being an antennae and picking up a signal that already exists. So it can seem inspired, and I've seen other songwriters say that they didn't really write the song, it was just there. That's probably not true because it would require some kind of "universal mind" and it's simpler to believe that it comes from listened to music, playing music, maybe accessing parts of the brain involved in writing music, and possibly internalizing that process so that things can happen without direct knowledge.
You can be as mystical or as practical about it as you want, whatever suits you.
And the song that just appeared will be logical. It will make sense according to the rules of musical theory and will be something that someone could have arrived at through creating musical exercises at random.
It isn't that the information is not logical, but it does not arrive through conscious use of logic. To find the logic is almost like reverse engineering. It's there but you have to take the song or equation apart to find it.
When I said "everyday speech" that probably wasn't a very clear way to say it or a good example as like you say, it's sort of automatic.

This has a lot of sense. I'm reading a book about how our minds work and the author says our brains manage to take basically two kind of decisions. The simple decisions in which we have a few controlled variables are made by the conscious mind. That's what we call reasoning. The complex decisions in which must be considered lots of variables, even the ones we don't know consciously that exist or that we have to take in consideration are better made by our unconcious mind and they usually appear as hunchs or presentiments. He gives as an example of the first kind a mathematical calculation and as an example of a complex decision the choice of who we get in love with. He says the hunchs appear when the concious mind gives up to take a decision because it can't manage so many variables. But we are always the same person despite we may think we are "two people".
 
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vegan cro spirit 555

Guest
This has a lot of sense. I'm reading a book about how our minds work and the author says our brains manage to take basically two kind of decisions. The simple decisions in which we have a few controlled variables are made by the conscious mind. That's what we call reasoning. The complex decisions in which must be considered lots of variables, even the ones we don't know consciously that exist or that we have to take in consideration are better made by our unconcious mind and they usually appear as hunchs or presentiments. He gives as an example of the first kind a mathematical calculation and as an example of a complex decision the choice of who we get in love with. He says the hunchs appear when the concious mind gives up to take a decision because it can't manage so many variables. But we are always the same person despite we may think we are "two people".

:rolleyes:

:straightface:

with 'many' variables its best not to think about it but use the 'unconscious' mind.o_O
located by the nose.:straightface:
so when you are planning to build a house you leave it to the 'unconscious mind' but when
you want to smoke weed you use the 'conscious mind'. makes sense.:crazy:
that way when the house collapses on top of you you wont feel any pain.:lbf:
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
:rolleyes:

:straightface:

with 'many' variables its best not to think about it but use the 'unconscious' mind.o_O
located by the nose.:straightface:
so when you are planning to build a house you leave it to the 'unconscious mind' but when
you want to smoke weed you use the 'conscious mind'. makes sense.:crazy:
that way when the house collapses on top of you you wont feel any pain.:lbf:

Building a house has a given number of variables, all of them consciously known (or at least they should be known), and people usually take that decision consciously. It's a perfect example of the first kind of decisions, the ones you can reason. It's about the variables you can't even know consciously when our minds give up to reason about the decision and our unconscious mind acts. Of course I'm over simplifying this topic, but esencially that's the idea.
 
V

vegan cro spirit 555

Guest
Building a house has a given number of variables, all of them consciously known (or at least they should be known), and people usually take that decision consciously. It's a perfect example of the first kind of decisions, the ones you can reason. It's about the variables you can't even know consciously when our minds give up to reason about the decision and our unconscious mind acts. Of course I'm over simplifying this topic, but esencially that's the idea.

:straightface:
Building a house has a given number of variables.:tears:
consciously known but variable.:confused: i almost know it but im variable about it , what I happen to know.o_O

right. PERFECT example or reasonable decisions.:squiffy:

:crazy:
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
right. like you can separate the awful comet music from :handpointright::guardsman::handpointleft: :lbf:
with his plastic:guardsman: and cometeer outfit and all the cheeky tats all over himself.:lbf:
easy divisible.

anybody off the street with a bizarre musical perception brain molecule can make
that type of sucky music.:crazy:

So let’s hear your attempt window licker.
 

countthree

Well-Known Member
:straightface:
Building a house has a given number of variables.:tears:
consciously known but variable.:confused: i almost know it but im variable about it , what I happen to know.o_O

right. PERFECT example or reasonable decisions.:squiffy:

:crazy:

Not a reasonable decision. A decision you can reason. i don't know why we are arguing about this, it was just a commentary about a book. I'm not supporting those who attack Morrissey so case closed.
 
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