Morrissey on Guardian

isnt generalising groups of people what is usually done?

All Northerners live in 2 up 2 down houses and wear flat caps?

All smiths/moz fans are depresive?

All Millwall FC fans are football hooligans?

All welsh people shag sheep?

Everyone from Liverpool are thieves?

None of these true but just generalisations, as somebody has said, you cant name every chinese person who doesnt treat animals horrifically in the paper

All very jokey and sweeping generalisations. BUtnone really associated with sub-species though. I assume you know your history. I assume you are aware that descriptions such as that to describe a group of people is inherently racist?

Ah but that Hitler well he did have some good ideas didn't he? Just a bit misunderstood
 
All very jokey and sweeping generalisations. BUtnone really associated with sub-species though. I assume you know your history. I assume you are aware that descriptions such as that to describe a group of people is inherently racist?

Ah but that Hitler well he did have some good ideas didn't he? Just a bit misunderstood

Yeah i understand they are jokey, but my point being that when anyone uses a generalisation of a group of people, the person saying it knows for a fact that all the people linked with that group arent the same.

had moz said "most chinese people who conflict this kind of cruelty on animals must be sub-species", then i doubt any of this would have kicked off.

but isnt freedom of speech what this country is all about, yet when somebody does speak their mind they get hounded for it
 
I am almost more curious as to his statements about not being able to get a contract. Seeing as at the moment he seemingly is signed to some form of deal with EMI
 
Morrissey just keeps on giving ammunition for his haters, doesn't he?

Oh well. I enjoyed the photographs and most of the interview, I just would never want to spend time with the guy however much I may adore him.

“I do what I’m told, until my nose is no further than six inches from his cheek. I can’t remember the last time I got within this range of another man’s face, and this man is Morrissey, and we’ve only just met. I notice the grey hairs in his sideburns, his indoor complexion, the cool quartz of his eyes. I inhale the atomised confection of what I assume is an expensive cologne.”
:blushing:
 
I spoke to my friend re that photoshoot that was gonna be used for the terrible Guardian interview.... Morrissey decided no to use them, claiming 'I didn't perform well.' So they couldn't use them.... But the pictures will be up on this site soon:

http://www.nadavkander.com/

Keep an eye out.


Looks like the new Jake photos were taken in super quick time, with Morrissey sticking a cat on his head in a doomed attempt to avert attention from the racist furore that seems to have slowed down a bit (for now.)

What are those photos about with the I Am The Real Poet Laureate sign if not a dig at Simon Armitage? Very witty, I'm sure. If you don't get out of your Swiss finishing school very often.
 
What are those photos about with the I Am The Real Poet Laureate sign if not a dig at Simon Armitage?
Yes of course it is,and so what?Hahaha!This pic is so funny!!!:lbf::lbf:
 
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Yes of course it is,and so what?Hahaha!This pic is so funny!!!:lbf::lbf:

Its just a bit sad to see the man who wrote some of the greatest lyrics of the 20th century reduced to making pointed critiques at supportive poets in a photoshoot taken by his ex-lodger. Still nothing surprises me with Morrissey anymore.

Maybe as his next re-release he can revisit one of his top ten hits:

The More You Ignore Me, The Older I Get
 
Looks like the new Jake photos were taken in super quick time, with Morrissey sticking a cat on his head in a doomed attempt to avert attention from the racist furore that seems to have slowed down a bit (for now.)

What are those photos about with the I Am The Real Poet Laureate sign if not a dig at Simon Armitage? Very witty, I'm sure. If you don't get out of your Swiss finishing school very often.

A dig at Carol Ann Duffy is more likely in my view.

I don't want to go into the whole Chinese thing as I've stated my views already, but here are some thoughts about the interview itself now that I've read it:

At some points it did seem to be more about Simon Armitage than Morrissey, with too much rambling instead of actual interviewing. Also, surely as a poet himself Armitage should know that poetry and music are not at all mutually exclusive. That annoyed me a bit. It all seemed fairly amicable though (with lots of the typical probing banter from Moz), and there were some lovely snippets in there. My personal favourites:

"Now both of you together" says the photographer.
"Cameron and Clegg", quips Morrissey.
"Which one am I?"
"You're Vince Cable"

"We're all lonely, but I'd rather be lonely by myself than with a long list of duties and obligations"

Also the part where he apparently talked about his fans- it's a shame that wasn't actually quoted, because it's very moving that he seems to feel that way about us.
 
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Its just a bit sad to see the man who wrote some of the greatest lyrics of the 20th century reduced to making pointed critiques at supportive poets in a photoshoot taken by his ex-lodger. Still nothing surprises me with Morrissey anymore.
Im sure it was meant as a lighthearted joke.
 
Because she's the actual Poet Laureate. Also, apparently he was disparaging about her at one point in the interview.

Thanks, I got that alright, but is there a discernable reason why he would be disparaging about her? :squiffy: Or, as I half-feel, could it have been just teasing, both towards her, indirectly, and of Armitage's hero-worship? :confused:
 
Is it wrong of me to hope this ends up being yet another case of journalistic malfeasance? I hadn’t realized that Tim Jonze was The Guardian’s music editor. And then simultaneously publishing an article and an op ed along with the interview, referencing a “row” that they helped to resurrect? That's a bit suspect.

I don't think Morrissey for a moment thinks that using the words 'Chinese' and 'subspecies' in the same statement is particularly wise. But when you witness something as heartbreaking (not to mention vomit-inducing) as footage of animals being skinned alive you 'can't help' but lash out in response. Anybody who can be calm, measured and reasonable in response to this horrendous footage must be sociopathically detached.

You make a great point. I would be seriously concerned if someone’s initial reaction to this footage was to walk away placidly. There really are no words to capture the visceral reaction you have to something like that. You really do feel like “lashing out”—and I sometimes wish that people who commit such atrocities could experience the sort of agony they put these animals through themselves, but I would never actually sanction such a thing. All of this is just to say that I can completely understand a visceral response to the footage Morrissey referred to. Any sane person’s initial response is going to be heated and irrational.

But, as you said, his comment was not at all wise. And he knew he was going to be interviewed; he brought this topic up himself. He wasn't speaking out of pure emotion.

I'm neither part of the PC Brigade nor anti-free speech. I just think that smart people should be smart in their discourse. As I said above, I love Morrissey’s passion, and I’m glad he’s talking about what’s going on in China. Most of the time, he has a real way with words when speaking about this topic. I no more believe that Morrissey’s a racist than I believe I’m the late George Sanders. But there are two things that really trouble me about his comment.

The first, as I mentioned above, is that, if properly quoted, it IS a sweeping generalization about a people group. Most people who stop and think about it—if they are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt—would have to admit that he most likely meant his comment as a criticism of a culture that permits such atrocities and NOT of the Chinese people as a whole.

But this is not a man who chooses his words lightly. And “subspecies” isn’t a word most people chuck around without some serious thought. The use of such a word when referring to a people group—especially one whose beliefs and practices are antithetical to your own—places you in ignominious company. Recent history is chock full of people who used this word. A good way to avoid comparison with such as these is to avoid using their rhetoric.

One thing that’s been made clear to me as I’ve dialogued with people about animal rights issues is that many of them are more than happy to keep out of it. And if you give them any reason to write you off so they don't have to listen or think or ACT, they’ll jump at the chance. It isn't right, but it happens all the time.

When Morrissey spoke about the animal torture in China, he was acting as an advocate. He was the voice of the animals who have no voice. It was a prime opportunity to say something that the people with their heads in the sand could hear.

Instead, he made a totally irresponsible statement, one he HAD to know would get people talking . . . about HIM. There is much more debate about whether or not Morrissey's a racist than there is conversation about China's animal and human rights violations. And that is profoundly sad.

My cynical side wonders if he said this just to keep himself in the spotlight. But another part wonders why a man who would go to all that trouble in 2007/2008 to make it clear that he’s against racism would willingly start a media shitstorm that will likely end with that word being attached to him forever.

I wish Moz would respond to this kerfluffle and clarify his statements (I’m not saying he needs to apologise—and I doubt he would, anyway). But he could use this as an opportunity to refocus people’s attention on the actual issue he meant to draw attention to in the first place.

Hey, a girl can dream.

Also: Morrissey with a cat on his head is adorable. I had to say it.
 
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