Independent.ie: Lloyd Cole Interview - with Morrissey anecdotes (July 2, 2023)

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Lloyd Cole interview Sunday Independent (Ireland) 2nd July - Morrissey references

Morrissey became a fan. He said Cole was the sort of person who gets "erotic about blotting paper". To which Cole replied: "I do. I am a real stationery fetishist."
When Lloyd Cole and the Commotions played their first gig in London at the Dominion Theatre, they came offstage and went to their dressing room to find Morrissey "drinking a cup of tea. We were friends for a few years." Does he despair for his old friend's right-wing politics now? "Oh, I couldn't possibly be friends with Morrissey now. But that's the lovely thing about art, those Smiths records and those Morrissey records are yours now. You can remove the author. In fact, the author is necessarily removed when the record is released."
In 1985, he and Morrissey met up a few times. "We had tea at Fortnum & Mason. That was his idea. We would play each other songs that we were working on. I got to hear 'Meat is Murder' before it came out."
Was that a bit like Alan Bennett and Dennis Potter having lunch together?"It absolutely wasn't," he says with a laugh, "because we were both still young and immature and still finding our way, in terms of finding our voices.
"I think Morrissey probably found his voice on The Queen is Dead and I found mine on my first solo record. I think I was trying to be less worthy from Rattlesnakes onwards. I love Rattlesnakes to death but it is hard for me to listen to the singing now. I don't en- joy the sound of my voice on that record. It's overly mannered.

 
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There is nothing wrong with cutting off contact. I think there has to be a fundamental similarity in beliefs and ethics for friendships to work. The most exhausting thing in the world is debating with people who can't even agree on basic facts which is why I will NEVER be friends with someone who is right leaning. Life is too short to argue about everything. Those people are unmovable.
They must be relieved!
 
Bizarre that a guy that seems to regard himself as a higher form of life simply because he went to college is a Morrissey fan.

Harvard profession Michael J. Sandel questions this kind of meritocracy in a recent book, “Tyranny of Merit: What’s Become of the Common Good?”

The obsession [with admission to elite colleges] has its origins in the growing inequality of recent decades. It reflects the fact that more is at stake in who gets in where. As the wealthiest 10 percent pulled away from the rest, the stakes of attending a prestigious college increased. Fifty years ago, applying to college was less fraught. Fewer than one in five Americans went to a four-year college, and those who did tended to enroll in places close to home. College rankings mattered less than they do today.

But economic anxiety is not the whole story. More than a hedge against downward mobility, Singer’s clients were buying something else, something less tangible but more valuable. They were, in fact, buying the borrowed luster of merit. In an unequal society, those who land on top want to believe their success is morally justified. In a meritocratic society, this means the winners must believe they have earned their success through their talent and hard work...

Those who prevail in a competitive meritocracy are indebted in ways the competition obscures. As the meritocracy intensifies, the striving so absorbs us that our indebtedness recedes from view. In this way, even a fair meritocracy, one without cheating or bribery or special privileges for the wealthy, induces the mistaken impression that we have made it on our own.

Besides being self-deluding, such thinking is also corrosive of civic sensibilities. For the more we think of ourselves as self-made and self-sufficient, the harder it is to learn gratitude and humility. And without these sentiments, it is hard to care for the common good....

 
Ah yes, Europe 2023 - nothing to see here, united in love, diversity is strength. These aren't the droids you're looking for.
And after recent events in France, maybe being concerned about such issues seems rational and common sense, rather than crackpot and fringe as you suggest. For make no mistake, what happened in France is coming to a country near you next.
Moz is trying to warn us. But who is listening?
Many of the people who are rioting came off overcrowded unseaworthy boats, do demeaning minimum wage jobs, live in bad housing and since they arrived, have been told, 'you will own nothing and you will be happy'.

The Guardian reported on a poll done in 2020 that found, 'Attitudes to faith said to drive negative perceptions more than ethnicity or nationality.'

The root causes of people being desperate enough to take such big risks to leave their countries are not consigned to the past. For example,

The Internal Displacement Monitoring Centre estimated the number of internally displaced persons (IDPs) in DRC to be 5.7 million at the end of 2022, and according to the UN Group of Experts on DRC’s latest report , a million have been displaced in the past year alone.

Black Africans fight one another in DRC, but all those of us on our phones, sitting in front of our laptops or in the seats of commercial and military aircraft, and in every other way wired to modern technology should know that this is our war, our highly complex and catastrophic proxy war.
etc - https://www.laprogressive.com/africa/human-suffering-worsens-in-drc
 
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You need to list the things that you find astonishing and that make you feel that it’s alright to criticise left wing folks like me. What are we doing that causes you to think we’re looney? Are you okay with Lindsey Graham sobbing on tv and begging people to give Trump money? Do you find that normal and sane? What about Trump even being able to run for President as a Felon? Should that be okay? How about all the far right goons over turning Roe vs Wade? Are you okay with women having to travel for abortions or delivering a child even though the mother has been told that the baby will not survive? Are you okay with Desantis banning books because he basically wants to rewrite history? What about affirmative action being turned upside down? Oh, yes…and Guns. Mass shootings every other day. Of course there’s a massive outcry from people. Where do you find the insanity? I find it insane that you don’t get up and do something. I find it looney that all you’re doing is pondering the outrageous lefties. And you are terribly wrong if you think people are going to give away their freedom to the Republicans. They are ruining this country. Plain and simple.

This entire reply is what they call "whataboutism." No self-reflection at all, just more easy targets of bad stuff done by the right. You're not engaging with this at all.

I ponder the outrageous lefties because its supposed to be my side and I am ashamed, and disturbed. Republicans being republicans is nothing new. The left turning into pod people lunatics, even including people I know, is very new. That's why it is my concern. If we don't clean up our own side, it will be a dozen more Trumps, as I keep saying, yet for some reason you imply I am not concerned about the Trump end of things. None of you are listening.

As for listing things. My god. It's too much to even begin. It's been nonstop insane stories for years and years now. I can't keep up and it's stressful to think about. How can I even begin, and how do I know if I spend all this time doing so, you or someone else won't just say I'm making it up, or exaggerating, or whatever, bla bla bla? Will it truly be worth my time?

This is hardly the end all be all of it, but this is a good starter. Here's 316 "cancel" stories, I believe all coming from the left, and I believe nearly all of them completely unreasonable, alienating and unappealing to normal democrats like myself.


On top of those stories is just tons of nonsense. I already mentioned the drag queen children story hour nonsense. THIS is what democrats are fighting for which will BRING TIDAL WAVES of votes to Trump-types in the new years. I guarantee it. But that's just one thing. I already said look into detransitioners. Go nuts. Go to their reddit, read their posts. Look into the various lawsuits happening. Look at what culture on the left has created. A total monster, harming so many children. It's disturbing.

Or maybe it was when the CDC said that quarantining is important, but protesting racism is more important than dying from a virus and said that's OK to do. Just utter nonsense. Or maybe its the publishing world, as I mentioned, canceling books left and right for not being progressive enough. Maybe its the people I ACTUALLY KNOW getting told by their editors to make their work more sensitive and "woke." Maybe its males winning against females in sports competitions and most recently, a women's beauty pageant. Maybe its the insane way the media acts when a possibly racial incident occurs and it turns into bizarre hyperbole and accusations and nobody can say one intelligent thing. Maybe its things like Disney cutting out a line of dialogue from the god damn French Connection because it might offend people. Maybe its people like JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle being on the naughty list for no good reason. Maybe it's personally watching multiple teen girls I know having identity crisis's and then deciding they are boys because they are being taught to hate their own bodies.

Maybe its insane anti-science nonsense about sex not being binary, even being printed in ideologically-compromised "scientific journals." Maybe its only a few years after MeToo and people like Louis CK being canceled, lefty activists saying "lol who cares if you see a penis in the locker room?" just because its a sign of some sort of perverse progressiveness. Maybe its things like "gender ideology" (there isn't two sexes, gender souls, two-spirit, non-binary, "gender identity", etc, etc, etc, etc, etc) being spoken of as if it was fact as opposed to a philosophy (or less generously, a religion), and that anyone who isn't on board with it is "far right" or a "TERF" or god knows what is coming next. Maybe its the recent audio recording of the teacher berating her students for not falling in line with gender ideology and yelling at them to go to another school (and then maybe it was lefty journalists misrepresenting the audio and writing shameful articles further denigrating the two girls and defending the teacher.) Maybe its that things happen like Jon Stewart having the "Race to Dinner" lady on his show as if she isn't a total scam artist lunatic. Maybe its totally insane and ugly books like "White Fragility" becoming best sellers and being taught in offices and corporations all around the country as if its holy gospel.

Or maybe its that homelessness and drug addiction has gotten worse in democrat run cities over the past few years, especially Seattle, and no one is doing anything about it, and they will blame anybody but themselves. Maybe it is the insane culture of paranoia and fear completely encouraged by the left to destroy the careers and lives of anybody who dissents on any of these orthodoxies. And that this toxic, oppressive culture is then further denied and treated as some fake boogieman whenever concerns are raised (good reference points here: Jon Ronson's So You've Been Publicly Shamed, and the book The Coddling of the American Mind.)

I'm just tired of it. I'm so tired, and everyone I know is too. The left has to stop. It has to be the party of reason, science, rationality. It no longer is. Its become a joke. And scarily authoritarian if one dissents, which this thread has become further proof of (of course I am "far right" for saying all this. That's how cults work. Never leave the cult, or else. Never criticize the cult, or else.)

Look, literally something has happened every day in the past 5-10 years to make me and everyone I know feel this way. Want a fun look into that? The podcast Blocked and Reported (careful! The two co-hosts are very much on the "canceled" naughty list...FOR NO REASON!) do a weekly show where they discuss this stuff. And yes, both hosts are on the left! And they're just like me, sickened by what the left is doing to itself. Another podcast that engages with this is The Fifth Column. I'm also a fan of Coleman Hughes' work on this subject too. I also, as I said, encourage you to read leftist criticism of the left, much of it coming from gay activists. Even some trans writers have been criticizing the excesses of the movement these days, that things have gone too far, and that children and women's safety as a sex class are at risk. Of course, if they say that, no matter their leftist bonafides, they too become excommunicated. Never question the cult.

I can predict how my post here will be taken. "Every ist and every ism" thrown...I don't care anymore. The left needs to be back to being kind, but sane, rational, nuanced, intelligent. No more clown show.

There ya go...loads of homework! Get to it :)
 
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Exactly. It's simplistic to call Morrissey a right-winger because some of his political views overlap with some right-wingers. That is my point. Morrissey is clearly apolitical and has a variety of opinions all across the political spectrum. As someone recently said, if gender can be a spectrum, politics should be able to also.
I don't know if I would call him apolitical, but totally agree on the bolded.
 
I met Lloyd Cole after The Commotions played The Dominion Theatre, London, in 1984. Morrissey was in the audience that night. At the stage door Lloyd joked that he was going to form a new band with Morrissey called The Affected Poofs. A good band name and a true story.
 
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I met Lloyd Cole after The Commotions played The Dominion Theatre, London, in 1984. Morrissey was in the audience that night. At the stage door Lloyd joked that he was going to form a new band with Morrissey called The Affected Poofs. A good band name and a true story.
The affected poofs, thats funny.
Not a fan of James Blunt but his first band was called Limp Willy and the Disappointments. Which is very funny.
 
I don't know if I would call him apolitical, but totally agree on the bolded.

You're totally right, that wasn't the wrong term, I meant not aligning with a specific party, but then again he does kind of align with parties now and then, huh?

He's an independent thinker, which is better than the alternative, for better or worse. We all should be.
 
It was said at the time that if they weren't actually dating, then it was at least true that Moz had a large crush on Lloyd and had been seen, sat front row at some US Cole dates at the time, just gushing over Lloyd.
 
I’ve never really given Cole the time to listen to. What would be an accessible album to start with?
Start with the self-titled solo debut album and his fourth solo album, Love Story. Stephen Street produced several songs on Love Story.
 
Because I'm a college graduate and you are uneducated and bitter?
So, only liberals are college educated? My entire family is college educated, and gasp, we’re all conservatives. Yes, I’m a conservative Morrissey fan. I love Lloyd Cole but hate his political views, but he seems like a guy that I could be friends with despite his political views.
 
So, only liberals are college educated? My entire family is college educated, and gasp, we’re all conservatives. Yes, I’m a conservative Morrissey fan. I love Lloyd Cole but hate his political views, but he seems like a guy that I could be friends with despite his political views.
Conservatism and creativity seem incongruent to me. Conservative Rock and Roll is an oxymoron.
 
Conservatism and creativity seem incongruent to me. Conservative Rock and Roll is an oxymoron.

Morrissey was a businessman. As he freely admitted even in the days of The Smiths, he intended to get rich out of music. And he did. He basically went into a joint venture business (The Smiths), ceased to be reliant on the State, and generated wealth for the State thereafter (via taxes). The aesthetic of The Smiths had a distinctly conservative, from the sepia-toned record sleeves to 'burn down the disco' sentiment of 'Panic', via the all-white, all-male, gutairs/drums/bass/singer line-up, to the backward-looking nostalgia for an idealised Blighty. I'm not sure how you can be into Morrissey and the Smiths, and regard Conservative rock and roll as an oxymoron.
 
Morrissey was a businessman. As he freely admitted even in the days of The Smiths, he intended to get rich out of music. And he did. He basically went into a joint venture business (The Smiths), ceased to be reliant on the State, and generated wealth for the State thereafter (via taxes). The aesthetic of The Smiths had a distinctly conservative, from the sepia-toned record sleeves to 'burn down the disco' sentiment of 'Panic', via the all-white, all-male, gutairs/drums/bass/singer line-up, to the backward-looking nostalgia for an idealised Blighty. I'm not sure how you can be into Morrissey and the Smiths, and regard Conservative rock and roll as an oxymoron.
The Smiths conservative? What in the hell! I think you totally missed the point. Hilarious.
 
Morrissey was a businessman. As he freely admitted even in the days of The Smiths, he intended to get rich out of music. And he did. He basically went into a joint venture business (The Smiths), ceased to be reliant on the State, and generated wealth for the State thereafter (via taxes). The aesthetic of The Smiths had a distinctly conservative, from the sepia-toned record sleeves to 'burn down the disco' sentiment of 'Panic', via the all-white, all-male, gutairs/drums/bass/singer line-up, to the backward-looking nostalgia for an idealised Blighty. I'm not sure how you can be into Morrissey and the Smiths, and regard Conservative rock and roll as an oxymoron.
How old are you? Seriously.

Do you remember Red Wedge?
 
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