Billy Bragg on Morrissey and things

That stuff he said about Morrissey was hilarious! I've never been into Bragg's music but he's a genuine bloke.

 

[MozRecording]

No pal its you that doesn't get it. The system is corrupt, don't engage with it. They do not "prefer it" if you don't vote in fact they get very uptight about "turn out" and spend lots of money to encourage people to vote. When the turn out is low it becomes much harder to claim a mandate. I'm guess you don't fully understand how British government works. Not voting is in fact a very simple and very effective (if done on mass) act.

Really you idiot? You think they want the immigrants, the poor, the disenfranchised to vote. Bullshit. Everytime you touch a keyboard you show how big of an idiot you are. And I thought my opinion of you couldn't be any lower. Apparently it can.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

I think the point Charlie is trying to make is that currently there is no real democracy, so what is the point of voting? The whole Democrat/Republican and Labour/Conservative system is kind of like the strategy that parents use on their kids to give the illusion of choice. "Do you want to want to brush your teeth now or in 15 minutes?" Either way the kids are going to brush their teeth. His argument is perfectly valid.

Exactly.

If you want to put change in place then you'd better be a media mogul or heavily influential in an influential pressure group as let's be straight as they're the ones who'll influence policy, and politicians couldn't give two hoots what we think.

Then when you get past that, like you say, the differences are minimal no matter who you vote for. We could have an electoral system in place which would allow a wider variety of viewpoints to enter Parliament, we could have a democracy which actually is a democracy but the Tories/Labour will never allow that because they aren't interested in representing us, just themselves, their interests and the interests of those that hold power.

I think when Scotland inevitably bugger off it will bring matters to a head as we'll have absolutely no democracy then as the Tories will romp every election.

We don't have a very healthy political system.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Really you idiot? You think they want the immigrants, the poor, the disenfranchised to vote. Bullshit. Everytime you touch a keyboard you show how big of an idiot you are. And I thought my opinion of you couldn't be any lower. Apparently it can.

How our society works is the government engineer it so just enough people have just enough money that they'll turn out to elections to keep the sham going. Every time you vote you give them what they need in that you've gone out and chosen them to keep the sham going. The fewer people people turn out the better in my opinion. Does that make me an idiot or does it just mean that I have a different belief on how to tackle the problem?

I just got a letter through my door saying we're getting a new kids' park built. I've spent the last couple of years badgering our local authority about it so all's good here winning little battles and all that.

Leaving aside the point that all of our Parties have signed up to the same system leaving us little choice on what we are voting for, I can't effect change politically by voting as I'm in an extra safe seat for the Tories. The system sees that my vote is pointless. Give me a chance to change the electoral system - by that I mean a positive change, not offering us one of the only things inferior to what we have as an alternative, and I'll be first at the ballot box. Until that day comes I'll take to being a spoilt brat, of being an idiot, of seeing the system as pointless and the futility of adding my support to those that I loathe.

 

[Anonymous]

How our society works is the government engineer it so just enough people have just enough money that they'll turn out to elections to keep the sham going. Every time you vote you give them what they need in that you've gone out and chosen them to keep the sham going. The fewer people people turn out the better in my opinion. Does that make me an idiot or does it just mean that I have a different belief on how to tackle the problem?

I just got a letter through my door saying we're getting a new kids' park built. I've spent the last couple of years badgering our local authority about it so all's good here winning little battles and all that.

Leaving aside the point that all of our Parties have signed up to the same system leaving us little choice on what we are voting for, I can't effect change politically by voting as I'm in an extra safe seat for the Tories. The system sees that my vote is pointless. Give me a chance to change the electoral system - by that I mean a positive change, not offering us one of the only things inferior to what we have as an alternative, and I'll be first at the ballot box. Until that day comes I'll take to being a spoilt brat, of being an idiot, of seeing the system as pointless and the futility of adding my support to those that I loathe.

You do understand that political engagement can amount to more than just turning up at a polling station, once every five years, and placing your "X" next to the least offensive candidate, don't you?

If you find prevailing mainstream politics to be objectionable, get off your arse and do something about it: that's how liberal democracy is supposed to work.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

You do understand that political engagement can amount to more than just turning up at a polling station, once every five years, and placing your "X" next to the least offensive candidate, don't you?

If you find prevailing mainstream politics to be objectionable, get off your arse and do something about it: that's how liberal democracy is supposed to work.

You obviously missed the middle bit of what I wrote. Well done on that.

I agree, I just think that voting is an act of endorsement so I spoil my paper instead.

 

[wastelandofyourhead]

You do understand that political engagement can amount to more than just turning up at a polling station, once every five years, and placing your "X" next to the least offensive candidate, don't you?

If you find prevailing mainstream politics to be objectionable, get off your arse and do something about it: that's how liberal democracy is supposed to work.

I think he is alluding to the fact that he does this on the local level for things he wishes to change. Sometimes changing the world is just as relevant when its done in your own backyard with one small initiative like installing a children's playground. But I agree with what was said on the national level about needing the money to influence the process.

Most of us have to get off our arse to pay our taxes and to support ourselves and others financially. Influencing the system on the national level is big business. Its rather disingenuous to suggest one merely get off their arse to affect real change at the high level. Although collectively that can be achieved in theory. And how is that process going for everyone?

But yes, there are things to be done. I'm becoming more interested in the use of Bitcoin as a decentralized currency that takes the banks and the government out of the middle. Things like this are hopeful. I don't know exactly how they reflect democracy in action, as they have nothing to do with the process of political change. I think they are categorized more in terms of subversion to the system, which is great. If that is applied democracy, than I'm all for it!

 

[Anonymous]

You obviously missed the middle bit of what I wrote. Well done on that.

I agree, I just think that voting is an act of endorsement so I spoil my paper instead.

Getting a play-park built has f*** all to do with either national politics or changing the national political agenda - which is what you've been complaining about.

Do something about it or stop crying.

 

[Anonymous]

Most of us have to get off our arse to pay our taxes and to support ourselves and others financially. Influencing the system on the national level is big business. Its rather disingenuous to suggest one merely get off their arse to affect real change at the high level. Although collectively that can be achieved in theory. And how is that process going for everyone?

Having a job and paying income tax is political activism? Brilliant. How is that process going for everyone?

Being politically active is more likely to influence politics than bleating on the Internet about how pointless everything is.

 

[MozRecording]

Getting a play-park built has f*** all to do with either national politics or changing the national political agenda - which is what you've been complaining about.

Do something about it or stop crying.

They have no interest in doing anything except complaining. They think they can change the world while staying in bed. They have no intelligence. Welcome to the world of Morrissey fans.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Getting a play-park built has f*** all to do with either national politics or changing the national political agenda - which is what you've been complaining about.

Do something about it or stop crying.

Well, as you know full well, changing politics on a National level is a piece of piss. Twat.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

They have no interest in doing anything except complaining. They think they can change the world while staying in bed. They have no intelligence. Welcome to the world of Morrissey fans.

So what are you doing to invoke change our superior one?

 

[wastelandofyourhead]

Having a job and paying income tax is political activism? Brilliant. How is that process going for everyone?

Being politically active is more likely to influence politics than bleating on the Internet about how pointless everything is.

Haha, no. Having a job and mandatory personal income tax is certainly not political activism. How that process is going for everyone is that it is mandatory. Unless you quit your job. The point was, people have to get off their ass and do this much. Not to suggest that was political activism. You've intentionally stretched this one to favour your point.

I appreciate your sentiment that free speech is wasted without the machinations of change behind it. I would counter that if everyone bleated out more, and not just on the internet, rather than maintain the status quo of accepted opinion, the world might be a more enlightened space.

But that couldn't be right, could it? Just which corrupted politicians are you an apologist for? But you aren't. You just think it isn't very useful for anyone to express an opinion on the ubiquity of political corruption, unless they intend to run for office or start an activist movement.

Could you actually be a larger part of the problem than me? You might think you are keen to a solution but I doubt it. Unless this is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that I am addressing. In which case, my apologies. Fire away your billions at the moving target of systematic corruption.

Lastly, I'm not on the internet carte blanche, bleating on about how pointless everything is. I go to other sites affiliated with an entirely different purpose and politics doesn't usually enter the debate en masse. But this is a Morrissey site. I love Morrissey's message. I know, its popular here to hate on it. If only he could be more constructive towards the political activism process like Bono.

Maybe Bono can Rock the Vote again sometime soon. Maybe him and Billy could Rock the Vote together!

 

[Anonymous]

Well, as you know full well, changing politics on a National level is a piece of piss. Twat.

Strawman. But yeah, sure: if something's difficult to do, it's not worth doing. Obviously.

Meanwhile, the ruling class loves you (and the other 35% of the electorate who don't bother their collective arse to vote). Well done, you.

 

[Anonymous]

Haha, no. Having a job and mandatory personal income tax is certainly not political activism. How that process is going for everyone is that it is mandatory. Unless you quit your job. The point was, people have to get off their ass and do this much. Not to suggest that was political activism. You've intentionally stretched this one to favour your point.

I appreciate your sentiment that free speech is wasted without the machinations of change behind it. I would counter that if everyone bleated out more, and not just on the internet, rather than maintain the status quo of accepted opinion, the world might be a more enlightened space.

But that couldn't be right, could it? Just which corrupted politicians are you an apologist for? But you aren't. You just think it isn't very useful for anyone to express an opinion on the ubiquity of political corruption, unless they intend to run for office or start an activist movement.

Could you actually be a larger part of the problem than me? You might think you are keen to a solution but I doubt it. Unless this is the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that I am addressing. In which case, my apologies. Fire away your billions at the moving target of systematic corruption.

Lastly, I'm not on the internet carte blanche, bleating on about how pointless everything is. I go to other sites affiliated with an entirely different purpose and politics doesn't usually enter the debate en masse. But this is a Morrissey site. I love Morrissey's message. I know, its popular here to hate on it. If only he could be more constructive towards the political activism process like Bono.

Maybe Bono can Rock the Vote again sometime soon. Maybe him and Billy could Rock the Vote together!

Morrissey's "message" is pathetic. Somebody on another thread, today, summed-up perfectly his attempt at agit-pop on World Peace...: s/he said, "It's not even provocative, it's just stupid."

What Morrissey advocates is capitulation and resignation in the face of injustice. Then again, he's a multi-millionaire so he can afford to sit back, be complacent and talk shite about things that don't cause him any hardship. Why any ordinary citizen would take a lecture on social justice by a very privileged, very wealthy celebrity, however, is beyond me.

 

[MozRecording]

So what are you doing to invoke change our superior one?

So you've given up trying to defend your idiotic stance I see. Wise.

 

[Orson Swells]

Welcome to the world of Morrissey fans.

Says the man with nearly a thousand posts...

 

[Anonymous]

Says the man with nearly a thousand posts...

It's almost as though you wanted to disagree with the substance MozRecording's point... but couldn't.

 

[MozRecording]

Says the man with nearly a thousand posts...

Says the man with nearly one thousand five hundred posts. I could have also said two ears and that would have as much to do with anything as the number of posts does.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Says the man with nearly one thousand five hundred posts. I could have also said two ears and that would have as much to do with anything as the number of posts does.

Look, you've offered nothing but name calling. We've all put our side across and yet you still haven't.

I might as well join in as with you we're not debating a subject. You're a c***, simple as. Offer something to the discussion of f*** off.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Strawman. But yeah, sure: if something's difficult to do, it's not worth doing. Obviously.

Meanwhile, the ruling class loves you (and the other 35% of the electorate who don't bother their collective arse to vote). Well done, you.

So what do you suggest everyone does to invoke change? You're slagging everyone off for not voting, we've already established that voting is an utter waste of time. So what should we all do?

I'll be waiting 'til 2096 for a coherent answer to this one...