Stop Search

[Kewpie]

Not to mention I've never heard there are any left wing terrorists in the UK Or elsewhere, after the 1970s.

Police made an excuse for anti-terror nonsense because they recognised Munchy.

I was also recently harassed by Police for a very silly excuse.

British Police lost credibility long time ago.

 

[IDon'tOweYouAnything23]

I got a nice bit of paper with all the notes they made about me on it

This happened to me a while ago, I only went into the shop to buy a packet of chewing gum! Two police officiers followed me and some friends into the shop, then asked us to step outside. And then one of those lovely forms ensued (a section 30 a think it's called) Full description of me, made me feel like a right criminal! Ok, so they want to stomp out crime on the streets, but me and my friends were hardly a vicious looking bunch!

 

[chica]

Whenever they stop and search harmless teenagers, they're wasting public resources which could have been used to, oh well, stop real criminals?

 

[Kewpie]

Whenever they stop and search harmless teenagers, they're wasting public resources which could have been used to, oh well, stop real criminals?

Yes, British Police is currently only spreading resentment among citizens who have been maltreated by them.

 

[Renia]

one more thing, and I swear I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, it does suck Munchy got searched.

But hasn't there been a lot of knife attacks and whatnot lately? Maybe that's why they're like this? Cause people are pushing them to do something? I'm not saying it's right or anything, but still...

 

[nogodsnomasters85]

I am going to rant now because I am really, really angry. I was just out in Angel (Islington, London) and I get off the bus, and I notice two police officers looking at me. This happens quite a bit, so I didn't really think about it. Then, roughly five minutes later I was walking past Borders/HMV and they approach me, and tell me they need to do a search. I ask them why, and they say it's under the terrorism act. ......

Jesus, on the one hand, my heart goes out to you, poor thing.

On the other hand,..... Way to go! You're an enemy of the state, and at you're age! You MUST be doing something right!

 

[MunchyBrain]

Not to mention I've never heard there are any left wing terrorists in the UK Or elsewhere, after the 1970s.

It depends how you're defining terrorism, because some people would say the poll tax riots etc were terrorism.

This happened to me a while ago, I only went into the shop to buy a packet of chewing gum! Two police officiers followed me and some friends into the shop, then asked us to step outside. And then one of those lovely forms ensued (a section 30 a think it's called) Full description of me, made me feel like a right criminal! Ok, so they want to stomp out crime on the streets, but me and my friends were hardly a vicious looking bunch!

Mine's a section 44, but I think it depends what they're stopping you for. My friends got followed around Tescos by three police officers.

one more thing, and I swear I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, it does suck Munchy got searched.

But hasn't there been a lot of knife attacks and whatnot lately? Maybe that's why they're like this? Cause people are pushing them to do something? I'm not saying it's right or anything, but still...

Nearly every teenage boy I know has been searched for a knive. That's different though, the laws on it are different. They have to show why they thought you had a knife and things. They wouldn't have had any reason for any of the people I know, but these people aren't really experienced enough in the law to know this. Terrorism is different though, they can just stop anyone, and they don't have to give a reason. So they just use it for intimidation.

 

[j funk]

Silly Leftie.

The police dont know what degree you're going to take your activism to. Such demos are usually peaceful but can involve vandalism or violence.

I got searched all the time in my mid-teens, just because I'd be walking home late at night. This was before the new terrorism laws and all the knife crime, but I dont feel persecuted.

 

[dunya]

Silly Leftie.

The police don't know what degree you're going to take your activism to. Such demos are usually peaceful but can involve vandalism or violence.

I got searched all the time in my mid-teens, just because I'd be walking home late at night. This was before the new terrorism laws and all the knife crime, but I dont feel persecuted.

What are you saying here? That it's OK for the police to harass someone walking down the street because they think they might do something wrong?

The police do not limit harassment to stop and search. They also employ freelance photographers to photgraph people who take part in demonstrations, often sending the same photographer to follow a particular group, to make it obvious they are being monitored. I know people who are from a political group who are avowedly non-violent and turn away those they think may cause trouble from their demo events. They are also very careful about received donations. Yet they are constantly made aware they are under surveilance.

At Angel there have been gang fights, stabbings, rape and fatal injury in the last four/five months. I live and work nearby. The Police have a hard time, especially with all the bars and clubs around. But they do no favours to themselves when a few bored officers misuse their authority to harass people going about their everyday business.

 

[Morrissey the 23rd]

Jesus, on the one hand, my heart goes out to you, poor thing.

On the other hand,..... Way to go! You're an enemy of the state, and at you're age! You MUST be doing something right!

Hear, hear!

 

[j funk]

These people are being singled out, but this should not be viewed as the authorities' attempt opress their political cause by harassment. They're not being silenced, they can still participate in demonstrations.

These people have been correctly indentified as those involved in something on the verge of or likely to cause the offences associated with public demonstrations.

I was often 'harassed' for walking home after dark. I could well have been up to no good and occasionally was, but the police just stopped me because I was there. I wouldnt be surprised if half the people they stopped had at least a bit of weed on them. Not a valid use of police resources I admit, but the ones they caught with quantities of drugs, weapons, tools for a burglary etc make it worth it.

And dont forget, you're wasting their time too, because they have to be present in large numbers for your demos.

 

[MunchyBrain]

These people are being singled out, but this should not be viewed as the authorities' attempt opress their political cause by harassment. They're not being silenced, they can still participate in demonstrations.

These people have been correctly indentified as those involved in something on the verge of or likely to cause the offences associated with public demonstrations.

I was often 'harassed' for walking home after dark. I could well have been up to no good and occasionally was, but the police just stopped me because I was there.

It is an attempt to opress us though. I know people who won't come on demonstrations anymore, because they don't want to have their photo taken, be followed, have their details put on a data base, or arrested without charge. These are common intimidation tactics, and they work.

 

[IDon'tOweYouAnything23]

Mine's a section 44, but I think it depends what they're stopping you for. My friends got followed around Tescos by three police officers.

All these sectionsAnd half the time what do they amount to? Nothing, telling off innocent youths, It really annoys me that they make a sweeping judgement about all young people (We're all carrying knifes, were going to slap your nan and steal her pension, blah, blah)...but...I suppose in todays climate of crime, it's necessary to be thorough rather than be half arsed about it. Police harrasment annoys me though!

 

[Buzzetta]

These people are being singled out, but this should not be viewed as the authorities' attempt opress their political cause by harassment. They're not being silenced, they can still participate in demonstrations.

These people have been correctly indentified as those involved in something on the verge of or likely to cause the offences associated with public demonstrations.

I was often 'harassed' for walking home after dark. I could well have been up to no good and occasionally was, but the police just stopped me because I was there. I wouldnt be surprised if half the people they stopped had at least a bit of weed on them. Not a valid use of police resources I admit, but the ones they caught with quantities of drugs, weapons, tools for a burglary etc make it worth it.

And dont forget, you're wasting their time too, because they have to be present in large numbers for your demos.

Well said.

 

[Buzzetta]

It is an attempt to opress us though. I know people who won't come on demonstrations anymore, because they don't want to have their photo taken, be followed, have their details put on a data base, or arrested without charge. These are common intimidation tactics, and they work.

That's bullshit though... that means that they want to protest or go to demonstrations without any type of tradeoff.

If it is within the governments legal constraints to photograph demonstrators they have the right to do it just as you have to the right to demonstrate. You cannot cry like a little baby for the things that go along with your protests. That is insane. It is almost as if you want to say that you want to do anything that YOU want without any type of tradeoff.

Whether you agree or do not it does not change that face that the government has the right to photograph you. What's worth more to you, Going to your protest or not being photographed?

 

[Dave]

That's bullshit though... that means that they want to protest or go to demonstrations without any type of tradeoff.

If it is within the governments legal constraints to photograph demonstrators they have the right to do it just as you have to the right to demonstrate. You cannot cry like a little baby for the things that go along with your protests. That is insane. It is almost as if you want to say that you want to do anything that YOU want without any type of tradeoff.

Whether you agree or do not it does not change that face that the government has the right to photograph you. What's worth more to you, Going to your protest or not being photographed?

It's intimidation and if it interferes with a person's right to free speech it's questionable. The thing is, there's a reasonable justification for photographing people at a demonstration. If things get out of hand it may be difficult to take photos, and the photos that were taken when everything was peaceful might be useful. But it's a whole other thing for the police to study photos of nonviolent protesters and then harass those people when they are going about their daily lives.
We're all still citizens and mutual respect to the degree that is possible, is the way to go. I don't know how others feel, but I personally understand that the police don't have an easy job. I don't hate them, but when they hassle me for no reason I have to say I do see red.

It's strange, because I haven't had any interaction with the police for months, but there was a period, maybe late last year, when I was stopped repeatedly just going to the store at night. It felt like I couldn't leave the house at night without being stopped. I show my ID and try to get it over with. I have no record and I'm not doing anything illegal. But then this one female cop had her little buddy search me, "it's for our safety and we can make you submit to search". I told them I did not consent but I wasn't going to physically resist them. I should have got a lawyer. That's why they have "searchable probation" meaning that a person can be searched any time. I was carrying a bag of groceries. Obviously I was minding my own business.

But when the police harass you and force you to submit to their force, when you are not a criminal and should not have to be treated like one, it ruins the relationship between the police and the community.

Anyway, no, stopping people because they went to a demonstration a week or so before, and treating demonstrators as terrorists, is a violation, and it is completely disrespectful of everything. It disrespects the law, the person, the reason that we have rights, our history and the people that died for our rights, and on and on. This is not upholding the law.

 

[Buzzetta]

It's intimidation and if it interferes with a person's right to free speech it's questionable. The thing is, there's a reasonable justification for photographing people at a demonstration. If things get out of hand it may be difficult to take photos, and the photos that were taken when everything was peaceful might be useful. But it's a whole other thing for the police to study photos of nonviolent protesters and then harass those people when they are going about their daily lives.
We're all still citizens and mutual respect to the degree that is possible, is the way to go. I don't know how others feel, but I personally understand that the police don't have an easy job. I don't hate them, but when they hassle me for no reason I have to say I do see red.

It's strange, because I haven't had any interaction with the police for months, but there was a period, maybe late last year, when I was stopped repeatedly just going to the store at night. It felt like I couldn't leave the house at night without being stopped. I show my ID and try to get it over with. I have no record and I'm not doing anything illegal. But then this one female cop had her little buddy search me, "it's for our safety and we can make you submit to search". I told them I did not consent but I wasn't going to physically resist them. I should have got a lawyer. That's why they have "searchable probation" meaning that a person can be searched any time. I was carrying a bag of groceries. Obviously I was minding my own business.

But when the police harass you and force you to submit to their force, when you are not a criminal and should not have to be treated like one, it ruins the relationship between the police and the community.

Anyway, no, stopping people because they went to a demonstration a week or so before, and treating demonstrators as terrorists, is a violation, and it is completely disrespectful of everything. It disrespects the law, the person, the reason that we have rights, our history and the people that died for our rights, and on and on. This is not upholding the law.

I disagree...

I have been searched twice in my life (that I presently recall right now) for what some would consider no reason.

Case 1 - I have mentioned if before... I drive a Black Mustang. On my way home one night I was stopped and given a breathalizer test. In all honesty there was no reason to stop me. I was driving at 3am though on a Friday night. Police explained that I was in an area where they had problems with people drag racing and drunk driving. I had no problem with that because when I was a teenage I did groundskeeping and general maintenance. (Anyone else here know how to install inground sprinkler systems or build classrooms or electical repair?) I have seen the results of drag racing where two cars were going down the road, lost control and crashed into the bushes maiming people that were walking on the sidewalks. There is nothing like pulling bloody sneakers from hedges the next morning.

Case 2 - I took the wrong Subway and wound up in East New York in order to make an exchange. I was stopped on the Subway platform and asked to turn out my pockets and show ID. Why? If you have ever been in East New York you would know why. This was about 10 years ago. Today it is still an area I would steer clear from in daylight. They stopped me as the only reason white boys like me go to East NY (at least in the area I was in) is to buy drugs. I had no problem with that. After I explained that I got on the wrong subway they thankfully waited with me until the subway came.

Were my rights infringed? Not at all. Would some consider it being hassled? Probably. Was there a reason and were the police doing their jobs? Absolutely.

My opinion... a lot of people complain because they want to be held unaccountable for their actions. They want to protest but they don't want to be photographed doing it. That is bullshit. They still have a right to photograph demonstrators. Don't like it then don't demonstrate. It's intimidation because the protesters do not want to be photographed and will stay home instead? No, to me it is more of a case of not wanting to be held accountable for what you are doing or may do.

 

[Dave]

I disagree...

I have been searched twice in my life (that I presently recall right now) for what some would consider no reason.

Case 1 - I have mentioned if before... I drive a Black Mustang. On my way home one night I was stopped and given a breathalizer test. In all honesty there was no reason to stop me. I was driving at 3am though on a Friday night. Police explained that I was in an area where they had problems with people drag racing and drunk driving. I had no problem with that because when I was a teenage I did groundskeeping and general maintenance. (Anyone else here know how to install inground sprinkler systems or build classrooms or electical repair?) I have seen the results of drag racing where two cars were going down the road, lost control and crashed into the bushes maiming people that were walking on the sidewalks. There is nothing like pulling bloody sneakers from hedges the next morning.

Case 2 - I took the wrong Subway and wound up in East New York in order to make an exchange. I was stopped on the Subway platform and asked to turn out my pockets and show ID. Why? If you have ever been in East New York you would know why. This was about 10 years ago. Today it is still an area I would steer clear from in daylight. They stopped me as the only reason white boys like me go to East NY (at least in the area I was in) is to buy drugs. I had no problem with that. After I explained that I got on the wrong subway they thankfully waited with me until the subway came.

Were my rights infringed? Not at all. Would some consider it being hassled? Probably. Was there a reason and were the police doing their jobs? Absolutely.

My opinion... a lot of people complain because they want to be held unaccountable for their actions. They want to protest but they don't want to be photographed doing it. That is bullshit. They still have a right to photograph demonstrators. Don't like it then don't demonstrate. It's intimidation because the protesters do not want to be photographed and will stay home instead? No, to me it is more of a case of not wanting to be held accountable for what you are doing or may do.

No, lookie here, see... If you don't see what's wrong with "white boys only go there to buy drugs" from a legal standpoint, and I think you must, then forget that. It's something you accept because it's acceptable where you live that there are these racial boundaries, and I do realize I sound like... a dog wearing a tiara, or something... when I try to argue against HOW THINGS ARE. I understand that. It's cool.

But are you against demonstrations? It sounds to me like you're saying that people should be photographed to prevent them from demonstrating. Maybe I'm reading that wrong.

 

[Buzzetta]

No, lookie here, see... If you don't see what's wrong with "white boys only go there to buy drugs" from a legal standpoint, and I think you must, then forget that. It's something you accept because it's acceptable where you live that there are these racial boundaries, and I do realize I sound like... a dog wearing a tiara, or something... when I try to argue against HOW THINGS ARE. I understand that. It's cool.

But are you against demonstrations? It sounds to me like you're saying that people should be photographed to prevent them from demonstrating. Maybe I'm reading that wrong.

From a legal standpoint it can be considered racial profiling. This in itself is a two faced argument by the way. I know of blacks charging racial profiling for being stopped when they were stopped in an area that was predominantly black. Is that racial profiling or the fact that a black man in a predominantly black area was stopped for running a stop sign? This was one of the incidents that made my friend take the FDNY test and leave the NYPD.

People like to make excuses.

As far as protesting I am all for reasonable protests whether I agree with their standpoint or not. Reasonable by definition of NOT violently disrupting the personal safety of others. However my point is that f you want to protest you cannot complain if the police are going to take your picture if it is within their legal confines to do so.

Protests that I have laughed at?
Illegal Aliens protesting "Laws preventing Illegal Aliens from staying in the country" - held in Union Square and marching up to Times Square in NYC

Impeach George Bush - he is not getting impeached and you are wasting my tax dollars. Held in Times Square. Some thought that they would block traffic and throw things at people that were not paying attention to them (soft objects not bottles and things) then complained as a few were wire tied and led away.

Israel should no longer exist and the Jews are to blame for the problems of the world. Held in Union Square last year. This group was a waste of my tax dollars as NYPD HAD to protect them from getting rocks thrown out their heads.

On my periods off (when I have two periods off in a row) I sometimes disappear and sit back in Union Square to eat my lunch and watch the world go by... its amazing what you see.

 

[Dave]

From a legal standpoint it can be considered racial profiling. This in itself is a two faced argument by the way. I know of blacks charging racial profiling for being stopped when they were stopped in an area that was predominantly black. Is that racial profiling or the fact that a black man in a predominantly black area was stopped for running a stop sign? This was one of the incidents that made my friend take the FDNY test and leave the NYPD.

People like to make excuses.

As far as protesting I am all for reasonable protests whether I agree with their standpoint or not. Reasonable by definition of NOT violently disrupting the personal safety of others. However my point is that f you want to protest you cannot complain if the police are going to take your picture if it is within their legal confines to do so.

Protests that I have laughed at?
Illegal Aliens protesting "Laws preventing Illegal Aliens from staying in the country" - held in Union Square and marching up to Times Square in NYC

Impeach George Bush - he is not getting impeached and you are wasting my tax dollars. Held in Times Square. Some thought that they would block traffic and throw things at people that were not paying attention to them (soft objects not bottles and things) then complained as a few were wire tied and led away.

Israel should no longer exist and the Jews are to blame for the problems of the world. Held in Union Square last year. This group was a waste of my tax dollars as NYPD HAD to protect them from getting rocks thrown out their heads.

On my periods off (when I have two periods off in a row) I sometimes disappear and sit back in Union Square to eat my lunch and watch the world go by... its amazing what you see.

Agreed that people like making excuses. I think there used to be this thing called "shame". Inconvenient but it has its uses.

I think that a protest for something that won't happen still serves a purpose.

Agreed that people-watching in Union Square sounds like a good time. That is a center of protest, or is it just that there are so many people that you see those that fall outside the range of normal?