Morrissey's Timeline of Self Loathing

[CrystalGeezer]

Would you say, based on interviews, that Morrissey had more confidence and a positive outlook on life while in The Smiths then once solo, took a dark turn somewhere? As though some voice, not his own, was telling him that he was useless and he believed it?

 

[Spinster]

Would you say, based on interviews, that Morrissey had more confidence and a positive outlook on life while in The Smiths then once solo, took a dark turn somewhere? As though some voice, not his own, was telling him that he was useless and he believed it?

To me, he seems to go through intermittent periods of self loathing and self confidence. Although i'm sure that when The Smiths first broke out into the public eye he was young and idealistic and probably had a "we're gonna conquer the world" type of attitude.

 

[Media Whore]

The voice of James Earl Jones?

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

I think incredible self-belief and a sense of utter hopeless somehow manage to comfortably coexist in Morrissey’s unique psyche. I don’t think he vacillates between the two. Depression has clearly been a problem for him over the years, but the man has the crows’ feet of a seasoned smiler.

As for self-loathing, I’m not sure that’s an issue for Morrissey. I suspect he does possess an almost perpetual ‘naked-lunch moment’ sense of reality, but again this is perfectly balanced by a deep and abiding romanticism.

He really is fantastic, isn’t he?

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

I think incredible self-belief and a sense of utter hopeless somehow manage to comfortably coexist in Morrissey’s unique psyche. I don’t think he vacillates between the two. Depression has clearly been a problem for him over the years, but the man has the crows’ feet of a seasoned smiler.

As for self-loathing, I’m not sure that’s an issue for Morrissey. I suspect he does possess an almost perpetual ‘naked-lunch moment’ sense of reality, but again this is perfectly balanced by a deep and abiding romanticism.

He really is fantastic, isn’t he?

Yes, I agree completely. You've pretty much summed up my thoughts on the issue, and I think a lot of people think and feel this way (that is, they are able to emotionally combine confidence and hopelessness simultaneously, as well as the occasional bout of self-loathing).

And yes, he is.

 

[Anaesthesine]

I think incredible self-belief and a sense of utter hopeless somehow manage to comfortably coexist in Morrissey’s unique psyche. I don’t think he vacillates between the two. Depression has clearly been a problem for him over the years, but the man has the crows’ feet of a seasoned smiler.

As for self-loathing, I’m not sure that’s an issue for Morrissey. I suspect he does possess an almost perpetual ‘naked-lunch moment’ sense of reality, but again this is perfectly balanced by a deep and abiding romanticism.

I think this may be true, and even if it's not, it's fun to think about anyway.

Bill Burroughs managed to plumb the contorted depths of the void while taking snapshots of disjointed moments of absolute, transcendent truth. It's too bad for Burroughs that he seemed to lack an emotional coherence that would have tempered the trip. His pain was our gain.

I'm often amazed that Morrissey managed to navigate his inner labyrinth and expose it to the world without the steady aid of opioids, narcotics or hallucinogens. This speaks to either great strength of character or serious control issues. Probably a bit of both.

 

[TheReader]

Yes, I agree completely. You've pretty much summed up my thoughts on the issue, and I think a lot of people think and feel this way (that is, they are able to emotionally combine confidence and hopelessness simultaneously, as well as the occasional bout of self-loathing).

And yes, he is.

Agree with all of that, and as you say I think a lot of people think/feel the same way as him. He's not really that unique in that respect, no matter how much he's romanticized - but he is a singer/songwriter of the first degree.

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

Agree with all of that, and as you say I think a lot of people think/feel the same way as him. He's not really that unique in that respect, no matter how much he's romanticized - but he is a singer/songwriter of the first degree.

Yes. What's incredible and unique about him in this respect is the way he is able to bring out and express these conflictions and traits that many people experience in such an artful, original and relatable way.

 

[Not Right in the Head]

Would you say, based on interviews, that Morrissey had more confidence and a positive outlook on life while in The Smiths then once solo, took a dark turn somewhere? As though some voice, not his own, was telling him that he was useless and he believed it?

Remind me again when David T. started this site?

 

[Spinster]

Remind me again when David T. started this site?

(meekly) Umm....1997...?

 

[joe frady]

I'm often amazed that Morrissey managed to navigate his inner labyrinth and expose it to the world without the steady aid of opioids, narcotics or hallucinogens.

That we know of...

 

[murder and desire]

I think this may be true, and even if it's not, it's fun to think about anyway.

Bill Burroughs managed to plumb the contorted depths of the void while taking snapshots of disjointed moments of absolute, transcendent truth. It's too bad for Burroughs that he seemed to lack an emotional coherence that would have tempered the trip. His pain was our gain.

I'm often amazed that Morrissey managed to navigate his inner labyrinth and expose it to the world without the steady aid of opioids, narcotics or hallucinogens. This speaks to either great strength of character or serious control issues. Probably a bit of both.

Well,
Morrissey may not have been strung out on H but he hardly thought life's weary fight unaided- Valium, tamazie's , Prozac have all been prescribed to him, among other things- this he did freely admit.
Then there was the few times he took E- again he said this himself.
Also, he was a regular at taking "sweets" from at least one of the Smiths (who spilled the beans in an interview), these "sweets" were pain killers and the usual stuff given to Heroin addicts- thus, opium of a sort has been part of his diet.

I think he was a lot more depressed in The Smiths (this he said himself), it's actually quite sad watching old footage. You can see the sadness and sometimes pain in his eyes (it reminds me of my own youth).
The prospect of the first flush of fame, may have given him a purpose and some where to aim the pain and doubt but it was all still there from the pre fame days.
Then as the years passed he learned to deal with himself like most depressives do, you know your never be free of it but you learn to cope.
The thing that I think has saved him is his deep sense of irony and humour- it is certainly the thing that saved me and stopped me ending up in a ditch in Essex ( i think Irony and humour are very English ways of dealing with life's hardships).
I suppose we can't ignore the fact that booze seems to have become a help to Moz over the years.

 

[murder and desire]

Agree with all of that, and as you say I think a lot of people think/feel the same way as him. He's not really that unique in that respect, no matter how much he's romanticized - but he is a singer/songwriter of the first degree.

I agree with this, I always have thought this. I am amazed when people try and make him out to be a puzzle that can never be worked out.
As soon as I got into the Smiths/Morrissey I got "it" instantly. The trouble is people get blinded my the media view of him which is always going to be false.
Not to mention the fact Moz likes to play and people misread his humour.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Thank you everyone for your insightful answers.

 

[mauve21]

Very interesting indeed, but my son has occasionally commented that,
"What if it's all an act?".....
Well, that would make Morrissey a very good actor wouldn't it.
Morrissey has been known to say that he does not perform or act though
and that he is just being himself. I'm just off hand remembering this
from a Jonanthon Ross interview.
I guess he could be described then as a successful person with bi-polar
tendencies.......

 

[Anaesthesine]

Well,
Morrissey may not have been strung out on H but he hardly thought life's weary fight unaided- Valium, tamazie's , Prozac have all been prescribed to him, among other things- this he did freely admit.
Then there was the few times he took E- again he said this himself.
Also, he was a regular at taking "sweets" from at least one of the Smiths (who spilled the beans in an interview), these "sweets" were pain killers and the usual stuff given to Heroin addicts- thus, opium of a sort has been part of his diet.

I didn't know that Morrissey was a regular pill-popper. I figured he had the odd script now and again, maybe some light recreational use. Still, he never seemed to give up control, like so many other creative geniuses.

I think he was a lot more depressed in The Smiths (this he said himself), it's actually quite sad watching old footage. You can see the sadness and sometimes pain in his eyes (it reminds me of my own youth).
The prospect of the first flush of fame, may have given him a purpose and some where to aim the pain and doubt but it was all still there from the pre fame days.
Then as the years passed he learned to deal with himself like most depressives do, you know your never be free of it but you learn to cope.
The thing that I think has saved him is his deep sense of irony and humour- it is certainly the thing that saved me and stopped me ending up in a ditch in Essex ( i think Irony and humour are very English ways of dealing with life's hardships).
I suppose we can't ignore the fact that booze seems to have become a help to Moz over the years.

Oh, absolutely. We're all in the same boat. It was my own terribly tortured youth that drove me to the stage, where I found some relief. Of course you can see it in The Smiths - that is part of his irresistible pull for me. I'm drawn to tortured individuals who mitigate through humor; they make the world go 'round (and congratulations to you).

Yes, he certainly seems to have gained some measure of control over his despair - that's a function of age; you either learn to control it, or you end up dead before your time. Of course that's often a detriment to one's art, but some costs are sunk.

As for the booze, it's pretty obvious that he's discovered better living through fermentation, but there are worse things in this life.

 

[joe frady]

Well,
Morrissey may not have been strung out on H but he hardly thought life's weary fight unaided- Valium, tamazie's , Prozac have all been prescribed to him, among other things- this he did freely admit.
Then there was the few times he took E- again he said this himself.
Also, he was a regular at taking "sweets" from at least one of the Smiths (who spilled the beans in an interview), these "sweets" were pain killers and the usual stuff given to Heroin addicts- thus, opium of a sort has been part of his diet.

I think he was a lot more depressed in The Smiths (this he said himself), it's actually quite sad watching old footage. You can see the sadness and sometimes pain in his eyes (it reminds me of my own youth).
The prospect of the first flush of fame, may have given him a purpose and some where to aim the pain and doubt but it was all still there from the pre fame days.
Then as the years passed he learned to deal with himself like most depressives do, you know your never be free of it but you learn to cope.
The thing that I think has saved him is his deep sense of irony and humour- it is certainly the thing that saved me and stopped me ending up in a ditch in Essex ( i think Irony and humour are very English ways of dealing with life's hardships).
I suppose we can't ignore the fact that booze seems to have become a help to Moz over the years.

Exceedingly well put.
Particularly the part about Morrissey as humourist. Besides saving his life, it's a continually and criminally overlooked aspect of his lyrical genius. And it's also why a large battalion of critical carthorses still fail to accord him any respect, yet shower golden garlands on the likes of Radiohead or Nick Cave, to pluck two at random. It maddens me when people compare Radiohead to The Smiths, saying they're The Smiths without the jokes. In other words, NOT The Smiths. To my ears Radiohead, lyrically and vocally, is just the sound of one poshboy moaning. No gags, no wit, no hope. That's the point; humour is hope amongst all the torment.

 

[murder and desire]

Exceedingly well put.
Particularly the part about Morrissey as humourist. Besides saving his life, it's a continually and criminally overlooked aspect of his lyrical genius. And it's also why a large battalion of critical carthorses still fail to accord him any respect, yet shower golden garlands on the likes of Radiohead or Nick Cave, to pluck two at random. It maddens me when people compare Radiohead to The Smiths, saying they're The Smiths without the jokes. In other words, NOT The Smiths. To my ears Radiohead, lyrically and vocally, is just the sound of one poshboy moaning. No gags, no wit, no hope. That's the point; humour is hope amongst all the torment.

I agree about Radiohead to a degree, although I am a tad loyal to them as they are from Oxford as am I.
Although, they come very middle class stock and I come from very working class stock- Oxford had a number of council estates built for the car factories, I was bought up on one of those. A very rough place- my life was like Adrian Mole thrown into Shameless.
That said I was never bullied, to survive life on a council estate with out joining a gang, all one has to do is be witty and well dressed and you can get away with mass murder.

I think Thom is talented though and he has a good voice. Whether you like their music or not (I only like some of it) they have moved things along in music.
The trouble is, Thom is a rubbish pop star and student that has never grown up, whom lacks any wit,style or charm and he is a bit of a fake- he used to hang outside HMV when his records were released, plus he did all this "issue" posing well being signed to EMI etc etc etc
Nick Cave I am a fan of, he now lives in my adopted home town.
Some of his lyrics are hilarious, he could do with getting a new shade of hair dye though.

Now what really makes me puke is Coldplay and Bell and Sebastian they are both amazingly over rated and lack any real worth at all.

 

[murder and desire]

I didn't know that Morrissey was a regular pill-popper. I figured he had the odd script now and again, maybe some light recreational use. Still, he never seemed to give up control, like so many other creative geniuses.



Oh, absolutely. We're all in the same boat. It was my own terribly tortured youth that drove me to the stage, where I found some relief. Of course you can see it in The Smiths - that is part of his irresistible pull for me. I'm drawn to tortured individuals who mitigate through humor; they make the world go 'round (and congratulations to you).

Yes, he certainly seems to have gained some measure of control over his despair - that's a function of age; you either learn to control it, or you end up dead before your time. Of course that's often a detriment to one's art, but some costs are sunk.

As for the booze, it's pretty obvious that he's discovered better living through fermentation, but there are worse things in this life.

Remember etched on the This Charming Man was the Legend "Escape Valium, return to Valium"

It seems he was given them aged 16 or their about. In England in the 70's the Doctors were quite happy to hand out Valium, a bit like they do prozac etc these days.
Thinking about it, I was given valium by the Dr at that age too and I am much younger than Moz.

I wouldn't like to suggest that Morrissey was hanging around Moss side with a stanley knife waiting to ponce on the meek and the week so he could feed his pill popping yearnings but he was no stranger to the delights of chemicals.

As what to what drove me to Morrissey,I was 18 when I found him and fully formed and when I saw him it was like he represented me, he seemed very like me,personality wise, Style wise, I had a quiff and similar dress sense, taste in certain cultural things- Kitchen sink dramas, Elvis, James Dean etc etc

I know what I said sounds shallow but in the end we are all on the look out for reflections of our self, some of us just find better matches than others- of course he has become a rich man and a legend and I sit at home watching UK gold, such is life.


Anaesthesine, what did you do on stage?
Do you still venture there?

 

[Barking]

Very interesting indeed, but my son has occasionally commented that,
"What if it's all an act?".....

Clever offspring.

of course he has become a rich man and a legend and I sit at home watching UK gold, such is life.

Doesn't he do exactly the same thing?