The Guardian: "Who’s bad? From Michael Jackson to David Bowie, why are some stars uncancellable" by Tim Jonze - tiny Moz mention (April 1, 2024)

Who’s bad? From Michael Jackson to David Bowie, why are some stars uncancellable?

A Michael Jackson jukebox musical has just opened – with no mention of sexual allegations – and a biopic is coming. What makes some celebrities immune to cancel culture? We examine who gets ostracised and who doesn’t

www.theguardian.com

Excerpt:

How do you grapple with cases in which there are conflicting views and grey areas? Does Morrissey’s embrace of far-right political groups such as For Britain have to be weighed on some kind of moral scale against Johnny Marr’s progressive values, to work out if the Smiths are cancelled? Should Benjamin Zephaniah be shunned for being violent towards a former girlfriend, or is he excused because he was the one who wrote about it, expressing regret and the need to be better? Before long, my list of factors had spiralled into a tangle of nuances and contradictions.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I can’t believe this junk is still being regurgitated. And of course the flag is rabidly flown by Tim Jonze.

 

[BookishBoy]

His use of the plural in "far-right political groups" seems almost...libellous?

 

[Dusty Miller's Hornpipe]

His use of the plural in "far-right political groups" seems almost...libellous?

I was just about to post similar.... For Britain aside, I can't think of any other far right groups he supported. Although off the top of my head, hasn't he supported Tommy Robinson in the past?

 

[Lucifer Sam]

I was just about to post similar.... For Britain aside, I can't think of any other far right groups he supported. Although off the top of my head, hasn't he supported Tommy Robinson in the past?

Yes, if they had said far-right "figures" instead of "groups," it might've been more accurate.

 

[The Alchemist]

Morrissey Shall Never Be Cancelled

 

[BookishBoy]

I was just about to post similar.... For Britain aside, I can't think of any other far right groups he supported. Although off the top of my head, hasn't he supported Tommy Robinson in the past?

It was in his June 2018 interview with Dodwell, specifically this part here:

"Anne Marie Waters seeks open discussion about all aspects of modern Britain, whereas other parties will not allow diverse opinion. She is like a humane version of Thatcher ... if such a concept could be. She is absolute leadership, she doesn't read from a script, she believes in British heritage, freedom of speech, and she wants everyone in the UK to live under the same law. I find this compelling, now, because it's very obvious that Labour or the Tories do not believe in free speech... I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson..."

I wouldn't say, there, that he's openly "supporting" Robinson, more pointing out that certain ideas/debates/discussions get shut down in the UK these days, and using Robinson as an example of that. (Although, of course, if Morrissey really disagreed with Robinson's politics then he should have said that, which he didn't.)

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

It was in his June 2018 interview with Dodwell, specifically this part here:

"Anne Marie Waters seeks open discussion about all aspects of modern Britain, whereas other parties will not allow diverse opinion. She is like a humane version of Thatcher ... if such a concept could be. She is absolute leadership, she doesn't read from a script, she believes in British heritage, freedom of speech, and she wants everyone in the UK to live under the same law. I find this compelling, now, because it's very obvious that Labour or the Tories do not believe in free speech... I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson..."

I wouldn't say, there, that he's openly "supporting" Robinson, more pointing out that certain ideas/debates/discussions get shut down in the UK these days, and using Robinson as an example of that. (Although, of course, if Morrissey really disagreed with Robinson's politics then he should have said that, which he didn't.)

why?

I mean, the only wrong thing about that is that it seems Morrissey leaves it up to the public, fans, critics, to interpret it as they will. Which of course, as we have seen and continue to do, may leave him open to misinterpretation.

 

[BookishBoy]

why?

I mean, the only wrong thing about that is that it seems Morrissey leaves it up to the public, fans, critics, to interpret it as they will. Which of course, as we have seen and continue to do, may leave him open to misinterpretation.

Well, because by not saying something like "I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson...I disagree with some of his views and his propensity for thuggish violence, but he should be allowed to stand up for his views" - then Morrissey leaves himself open to all journalists, for the rest of his life, being able to lazily write "Morrissey supports / supported Tommy Robinson". But maybe he's 100% fine with that.

 

[Malarkey]

Well, because by not saying something like "I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson...I disagree with some of his views and his propensity for thuggish violence, but he should be allowed to stand up for his views" - then Morrissey leaves himself open to all journalists, for the rest of his life, being able to lazily write "Morrissey supports / supported Tommy Robinson". But maybe he's 100% fine with that.

Or the only thing he knew about him was that he'd been arrested for "doing journalism".

We know from his autobiography that he didn't agree with the politics of the EDL.

 

[Malarkey]

In what world is, cancelling shows, having emotional breakdowns, refusing to talk to the press & saying your heart is broken & you don't have the money to sue, a sign of being "fine" with anything that's happened to him since 2017.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Well, because by not saying something like "I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson...I disagree with some of his views and his propensity for thuggish violence, but he should be allowed to stand up for his views" - then Morrissey leaves himself open to all journalists, for the rest of his life, being able to lazily write "Morrissey supports / supported Tommy Robinson". But maybe he's 100% fine with that.

Yes, that’s what I said in my post.

But I don’t know if he’s 100% fine with it,
though I agree it is his fault if he thinks all people will understand him and interpret what he’s saying as he himself understands it.

I wonder if he simply treats his statements in the same way he sees his songs, and believes that they don’t need footnotes or explaining.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

It was in his June 2018 interview with Dodwell, specifically this part here:

"Anne Marie Waters seeks open discussion about all aspects of modern Britain, whereas other parties will not allow diverse opinion. She is like a humane version of Thatcher ... if such a concept could be. She is absolute leadership, she doesn't read from a script, she believes in British heritage, freedom of speech, and she wants everyone in the UK to live under the same law. I find this compelling, now, because it's very obvious that Labour or the Tories do not believe in free speech... I mean, look at the shocking treatment of Tommy Robinson..."

I wouldn't say, there, that he's openly "supporting" Robinson, more pointing out that certain ideas/debates/discussions get shut down in the UK these days, and using Robinson as an example of that. (Although, of course, if Morrissey really disagreed with Robinson's politics then he should have said that, which he didn't.)

He’s mentioned Robinson some other time, as well, hasn’t he?

 

[Mike Rourke]

His use of the plural in "far-right political groups" seems almost...libellous?

Unfortunately, on top of his unambiguous support for the For Britain party, he's expressed sympathy for Tommy Robinson, declared Marine Le Pen the winner of a particular debate, and repeatedly enthused about Farage and (I think?) said he was tempted by UKIP.
A key problem here is that I'm not aware of a precise or official definition of 'far right'. Some would argue that For Britain were not far right but in their manifesto they were considerably to the right of the Conservative Party.
He has also expressed sympathy/support (however vaguely) for left wing people in the last 10 years or so including Bernie Sanders and George Galloway. But it was the lack of ambiguity in his wholehearted endorsement of For Britain that probably did for him.

 

[Malarkey]

Right back to 2019 again.

Morrissey very unambiguously said that he was against racism & fascism, would do anything for his muslim friends & thought For Britain would help animals.

 

[BookishBoy]

Or the only thing he knew about him was that he'd been arrested for "doing journalism".

We know from his autobiography that he didn't agree with the politics of the EDL.

So your hypothesis here is that Morrissey was, in June 2018, very well informed about AMW and her party ("she believes in British heritage, freedom of speech, and she wants everyone in the UK to live under the same law"), but knew almost nothing about Robinson at that point? Hmmm.

You carry on believing that if it makes you happy, I guess.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Right back to 2019 again.

Morrissey very unambiguously said that he was against racism & fascism, would do anything for his muslim friends & thought For Britain would help animals.

I see… what Morrissey has done here is confuse supporting a right wing political party with voting in the RSPCA Friend of the Animals Award.
Easily done, especially for poor, naive, little misinformed Mozi.

 

[Malarkey]

So your hypothesis here is that Morrissey was, in June 2018, very well informed about AMW and her party ("she believes in British heritage, freedom of speech, and she wants everyone in the UK to live under the same law"), but knew almost nothing about Robinson at that point? Hmmm.

You carry on believing that if it makes you happy, I guess.

No, I don't think he was very well informed about Anne Marie or her party - since their activists were punting the line that she was essentially left-wing but had been smeared.

 

[Malarkey]

But what would he need to know about Robinson that should dissuade him from ‘supporting’ Robinson’s right to (as Morrissey sees it) free speech? for isn’t that what he’s actually supporting in regards to Robinson’s actions that led to imprisonment?

Of course we are not talking about Robinson’s past behavior or beliefs here.

I think if he was better informed he wouldn't have bothered with the free speech argument since that's just a ruse.

Freedom of speech, animal rights, gay rights, women's rights - they're all good things - how can you be against them? But really the only thing they're interested in is race.

So his career gets wrecked - & the far right gets yet more mainstream publicity.

Jonze should grapple with the morality of that.

 

[Surface]

Unfortunately, on top of his unambiguous support for the For Britain party, he's expressed sympathy for Tommy Robinson, declared Marine Le Pen the winner of a particular debate, and repeatedly enthused about Farage and (I think?) said he was tempted by UKIP.
A key problem here is that I'm not aware of a precise or official definition of 'far right'. Some would argue that For Britain were not far right but in their manifesto they were considerably to the right of the Conservative Party.
He has also expressed sympathy/support (however vaguely) for left wing people in the last 10 years or so including Bernie Sanders and George Galloway. But it was the lack of ambiguity in his wholehearted endorsement of For Britain that probably did for him.

I thought the Maida Vale gig when he was promoting Low in high school was the start of all this nonsense. Many of us on this site were listening live and commenting on the new songs when in between songs he said
“I was very surprised the other day, it was very interesting to me to see Anne-Marie Waters become the head of Ukiip”

“Oh no, sorry, she didn’t. The voting was rigged. Sorry, I forgot.”

The crowd went deadly silent and it was a real wtf moment.