question for the meat-eaters here

[unruly boy]

If you ever had the opportunity to dine with Morrissey, would you refrain from eating meat in his presence out of respect for him and his beliefs, or would you say "Screw Morrissey, I'll eat whatever I want! I'll have the steak please!"

I have often thought about this and what I would do being put in that position. I wonder if he would become angry or annoyed if someone brazenly ate meat right in front of him, having full knowledge of his beliefs.

I think to be safe, I would just not order meat at all. What do you think you would do?

I would probably not eat the meat. I like it but I can live without it. Infact, I have a friend, a fellow moz-lover, who is a vegitarian and I have to be careful.

The problem I have though is that we have different beliefs, and without going into the ethical and moral rights and wrongs of the whole affair, I don't see why I should change what eat to suit vegitarians. I would never force a vegitarian to eat meat and by the same token, I wouldn't want them to tell me what to eat, or what not to eat.

Also, I've occasionally had vegitarians trying to impose their views on me which got right on my tits. I know that's not everyone but it's like religious belivers chastising you for not being religious.

That is all.

 

[unruly boy]

... eating meat is wrong, there is no argument for it :

I said I wouldn't get into a debate, but that is just plain wrong.

Other animals eat 'dead animal carcasses', and I don't buy that 'humans having the mental and moral capacity and animals not' argument because by the reasoning that humans are morally and intellectually superior and know that all killing is 'supposedly' wrong then surely animals killing and eating other, often weaker or slower, animals (tearing their carcasses apart in some cases) must also be wrong.

Ok, perhaps we don't need meat to survive and wild (or 'free') animals maybe do, but are we not just essentially doing what other animals in the wild do?
Besides, 'killing is wrong' is a moral absolute and I've never been one for moral absolutes, they are inflexible and often unworkable.

Do I think it's right to eat meat? Well it's not the eating that nags me, it's the killing and the way animals are killed. However, if we were not the superior species in the world, I have no doubt many of us would be killed and possibly eaten or experimented upon by whatever the superior species was.

I'm not entirely justifying it I know, but to say there is 'NO argument' for it is, in my opinion, blinkered.

 

[SouthpawGlamour]

I said I wouldn't get into a debate, but that is just plain wrong.

Other animals eat 'dead animal carcasses', and I don't buy that 'humans having the mental and moral capacity and animals not' argument because by the reasoning that humans are morally and intellectually superior and know that all killing is 'supposedly' wrong then surely animals killing and eating other, often weaker or slower, animals (tearing their carcasses apart in some cases) must also be wrong.

Ok, perhaps we don't need meat to survive and wild (or 'free') animals maybe do, but are we not just essentially doing what other animals in the wild do?
Besides, 'killing is wrong' is a moral absolute and I've never been one for moral absolutes, they are inflexible and often unworkable.

Do I think it's right to eat meat? Well it's not the eating that nags me, it's the killing and the way animals are killed. However, if we were not the superior species in the world, I have no doubt many of us would be killed and possibly eaten or experimented upon by whatever the superior species was.

I'm not entirely justifying it I know, but to say there is 'NO argument' for it is, in my opinion, blinkered.

The person chose not to present any arguments. I am afraid this is indicative of many vegans and vegeterians, who often make emotional claims but cannot rationalise or explain thier beliefs in a way that makes any practical sense.

I DO want vegans and vegeterians to have a voice but so often they are aggressive and unable to express their beliefs as we see here.

I even gave the person some help by seperating eating meat with animal cruelty, but he/she couldn't follow up.

I have to say, that sadly, vegans and vegeterians come across really badly in the main and damage their own cause considerably.

There are a lot of resources for and against veganism and vegeterianism and people should peruse those as a starting point.

Humans ARE a dominant species, whose track record does not suggest they are morally superior, but quite the opposite. Last time I checked, we were engaged in two wars.

 

[Sister_Steve]

I said I wouldn't get into a debate, but that is just plain wrong.

Other animals eat 'dead animal carcasses', and I don't buy that 'humans having the mental and moral capacity and animals not' argument because by the reasoning that humans are morally and intellectually superior and know that all killing is 'supposedly' wrong then surely animals killing and eating other, often weaker or slower, animals (tearing their carcasses apart in some cases) must also be wrong.
.

I don't get your point here, what are you saying? That as a vegetarian I shouldn't agree with animals eating other animals? Well obviously, I don't agree with it, and if there was another option...I'm not gonna walk up to a lion on the plains of Africa and tell them that eating meat is wrong, because they wouldn't understand. If there is no other option then yea I can excuse eating meat, so that would the only time when I can see a reason. Such as a programme I saw about people living in the back of beyond in Africa or somewhere, where they had to hunt for their own meat and my friends said, would you in that situation? and obviously I wouldn't know any better, I don't think PETA campaign around that area. But in western society, very few people catch and kill their own meat, they just pop down to their nearest supermarket or mc donalds and pick up some processed meat packed full of shit, which doesn't resemble anything that might have come from an animal. That's why people are selfish and greedy. It's a small sacrifice really to stop eating meat, it's perfectly easy not to. I hate that animals are just born to end up on our plates, that's all their lives are worth and people say to me all the time "that's what animals are there for!", well why should they be? What are you here for? Humans just ruin the planet, start wars etc. Mine and Lilybett's inspired idea the other day in the pub was we should kill and eat all people serving life sentences in prison..wouldn't that solve so many problems?

 

[Sister_Steve]

The person chose not to present any arguments. I am afraid this is indicative of many vegans and vegeterians, who often make emotional claims but cannot rationalise or explain thier beliefs in a way that makes any practical sense.

f*** you. I've given loads of reasons. You've just given me the same old bullshit i hear every day. If I seem a little aggressive that's because stupid, ignorant people piss me off!

 

[the more you explore me!]

Mine and Lilybett's inspired idea the other day in the pub was we should kill and eat all people serving life sentences in prison..wouldn't that solve so many problems?

sorry sister but that's just a bit silly really....was you two drunk at the time.

life sentances are normally just over twenty years long.

as a veggie me self....i do get annoyed at the idea of eating people (it's been posted here before), doesn't make sense! you don't want this animal to suffer and die but it's alright for this animal/human to suffer and die, because they are in prison!

 

[Sister_Steve]

Yeah but animals haven't committed any crimes, whereas those humans have! No, we weren't drunk, we were perfectly clear headed. I think it's a great idea! When Lilybett becomes Prime Minister and she appoints me Deputy Prime Minister, we will make eating meat illegal and anyone who eats it shall be thrown in prison

Glad to hear you're vegetarian though, I do love a vegetarian man

 

[durutti]

if i was to meet morrissey not only would i eat EVERYTHING he wanted me to (even brocolli and cauliflower!) but i would also go sky diving, bungee jumping etc (you get my point?)

now, seriously, on our first DATE (!) i would go to a vegetarians place. However i will let him know that i am a faithfull meat-arian and have no plans of converting. On our second third etc date we will only go out for drinks, tea etc.

 

[SouthpawGlamour]

The person chose not to present any arguments. I am afraid this is indicative of many vegans and vegeterians, who often make emotional claims but cannot rationalise or explain thier beliefs in a way that makes any practical sense.

f*** you. I've given loads of reasons. You've just given me the same old bullshit i hear every day. If I seem a little aggressive that's because stupid, ignorant people piss me off!

Errmmmm..are you really unaware that you are supporting my arguments in your every utterance?

Such a foul mouth and high levels of hostility is supposed to achieve what exactly?

 

[Sister_Steve]

Whatever pedro. I don't see what me having a foul mouth and being hostile has got to do with whether or not it is wrong to eat meat

 

[lilikoi]

in answer to the stoneage argument:

culture is the human race´s effort to set nature its limits.

and:

the fact that our genes are selfish does not imply that we are forced to obey them for our entirel life. it may be harder for us to learn altruism than if we were genetically programmed to be altruistic but it is nevertheless possible.

richard dawkins - the selfish gene.

 

[SouthpawGlamour]

Whatever pedro. I don't see what me having a foul mouth and being hostile has got to do with whether or not it is wrong to eat meat

No, I gathered that. I wouldn't apply for that PETA spoeksperson gig just yet, if I were you.

 

[lottie]

If you ever had the opportunity to dine with Morrissey, would you refrain from eating meat in his presence out of respect for him and his beliefs, or would you say "Screw Morrissey, I'll eat whatever I want! I'll have the steak please!"

I have often thought about this and what I would do being put in that position. I wonder if he would become angry or annoyed if someone brazenly ate meat right in front of him, having full knowledge of his beliefs.

I think to be safe, I would just not order meat at all. What do you think you would do?

I think you'd find that Moz would get up and leave if you ordered meat.
He has often said that he cannot bear to be in the same room as those consuming meat let alone at the same table!
I agree, i cannot even sit in the same room, (because it offends every fibre of my being and i wouldnt be responsible for my actions!!) and i wouldnt eat out in a place that wasnt totally veggie/vegan anyway... ;-)

 

[lottie]

Godd I would hope that you meat eaters would refrain for eating meat for one night. I don't think it's that much to ask that you don't guzzle dead animal carcasses in front of your vegetarian idol is it?

I wish my friends would have the same respect for me, but do they f***. They take the piss out of my food saying it looks disgusting, laugh at me, and if I cook for everyone (which i do do quite often) and refuse to cook flesh they complain that they can't have a meal without meat. Well this is only some of my friends, some are respectful!

I think my dear, you need some new friends.. 'cause if they can act like that especially after youve cooked fab veggie food for them then they aren't true friends... (and i certainly would not tolerate that from them!)
I think the option of ONE friend is sounding desirable!

 

[SouthpawGlamour]

in answer to the stoneage argument:

culture is the human race´s effort to set nature its limits.

and:

the fact that our genes are selfish does not imply that we are forced to obey them for our entirel life. it may be harder for us to learn altruism than if we were genetically programmed to be altruistic but it is nevertheless possible.

richard dawkins - the selfish gene.

Dawkins is pretty low on my list of great thinkers and tends to state the obvious.

So, to point out some more obvious truths.

Yes, science and technology has made it possible for the relatively wealthy western world to embrace vegeterianism on a large scale.

But doctors, dieticians, government etc don't support it.

It doesn't seem feasible at all in many parts of the world.

There is simply no will.

Add the terrible reputation of animal rights groups and individual 'f*** you' veggies and you would need one hell of a spin doctor to turn the tide.

Unless the decent veggies speak up, you will remain a minority 'weirdo' group. So SPEAK UP.

 

[lottie]

Oh my, I hate when people eat meat in my presence. The thought of someone devouring flesh and bones in front of me makes me want to vomit. I have a hard time having respect for people who are carnivores and are unappologetic about it. If one can't have a single meal without chewing on something that had to be killed, then it's really not worth spending much thought/time/effort on that person, isn't it?
I think Morrissey sees this the same way, and I think that with a person who is such an outspoken animal rights activist, it is almost implied that if you were to dine with him, that you refrain from revealing your primitive, insensitive tendencies.

nicely written
I also have a major hard time having any respect for carnivores that are apologetic about it, that REALLY pisses me off, theyre all like "ohsorry about this," and still they continue to do it, if they were REALLY SORRY then they would just become veggie.
*grrrrrr*

 

[the more you explore me!]

Yeah but animals haven't committed any crimes, whereas those humans have! No, we weren't drunk, we were perfectly clear headed. I think it's a great idea! When Lilybett becomes Prime Minister and she appoints me Deputy Prime Minister, we will make eating meat illegal and anyone who eats it shall be thrown in prison

Glad to hear you're vegetarian though, I do love a vegetarian man

so why eat a human because they have committed a crime? that is a horrible thng to do!

as i've said before on these discussions... it's a matter of choice, if you eat meat or not. Like smoking, drinking or drugs. i choose not to eat meat any more like i choose not to smoke

 

[lottie]

Yeah but animals haven't committed any crimes, whereas those humans have! No, we weren't drunk, we were perfectly clear headed. I think it's a great idea! When Lilybett becomes Prime Minister and she appoints me Deputy Prime Minister, we will make eating meat illegal and anyone who eats it shall be thrown in prison

Glad to hear you're vegetarian though, I do love a vegetarian man

no no no no, anyone caught eating meat shall have done unto them what was done unto that animal to cause its demise... mainly being hung by feet ineffectually stunned and having your throat slowly slit and left to feel and see your own lifes blood trickling over your eyeballs onto the floor. (at least if it was a huiman theyd KNOW what theyd done to deserve this treatment!)
or disemboweling is a good slow death process.


i hereby apply fpr position of chief executioner?

 

[the judge]

I think it's natural to eat meat (by the way, I hate the word natural), it's the food chain.

I wonder when people will start talking about plants' rights. then, why do people should cut trees, pick up flowers? they also have the right to live.

Anyone practicing doublethink?
I love my granny's goats, I'd never kill them, but I also like meat.
And all this because of doublethink

I love quoting myself

Anything to say about plants? I think it's the next step, after human rights (black, women, gay etc) and animal rights we'll have plants rights.

 

[lottie]

oh, and for reference i would never eat human flesh either, not because i would consider it murder as i do with animals.. more because humans disgust me.
*shudders*