PregnantForTheLastTime
Hideous trait.
One child would have been the instigator or aggressor, that may or may not be the older child. Likely that child would have been abused by someone else.
Oh, for f***'s sake. Headmaster's Ritual was about corporal punishment (i.e. beatings...not sexual abuse, FYI) that went on in schools of that time, and specifically it was about Morrissey's former school, St Mary's, and its headmaster, Jet Morgan. Although Morrissey himself, by all accounts I've read and by his own admission, never received beatings at school, many other pupils did. Please try to get some information about the context of the songs the next time.There has been speculation that M. was sexually exploited or abused as a child or teenager- I feel there is strong textual evidence that he was. This Charming Man (which is so laden with class references, also) and Reel Around the Fountain, plus Headmaster Ritual ("please excuse me from gym
I've got this terrible cold coming on
he grabs and devours
kicks me in the showers
and he grabs and devours
I wanna go home
I don't want to stay")
...it's a song about male prostitution, written from the POV of a rent boy. Morrissey as a songwriter is telling a story. Are you now going to suggest it's autobiographical and that he has worked as a prostitute? Or wanted to work as one? Anyway, many male prostitutes aren't gay, or even bisexual per se, they just do what they have to do. Just as there are many female prostitutes who are lesbians but have sex with men as a part of their job. Prostitutes are usually not after sexual pleasure. Let's go on....And I believe also that he is gay. I mean, why Piccadilly Palare?
Why Hand In Glove?Why Hand in Glove?
He has self-respect, that's exactly why he insists on being himself. What right do you have to determine what someone else's sexuality must be? You've never met him, but it seems you know more about him that he knows himself? I'd be really annoyed if I was him. And it seems he is annoyed, as he said: "I don't mind it when people question it (his sexuality), but I do mind it when they assume - as if they know more about me than I do."There are too, too many hints. Except... I can see not coming out in 1984. But it's 2007. Why wouldn't you come out, now? I actually have less and less respect for people in the public eye who don't come out. Admittedly, M. does not say that he isn't gay or straight, even still. Which is just getting coy and annoying. OUT with it! Show some self-respect. Will I be flamed for that? I hope not, it's my own opinion.
The candy store song is interesting- I don't know that one. It does sound like he's desperately trying to convince himself that he isn't 100% gay, though.
I love the man, either way.
Looks like you're desperately trying to convince yourself that he's gay.The candy store song is interesting- I don't know that one. It does sound like he's desperately trying to convince himself that he isn't 100% gay, though.
Please tell, where exactly did you get all your vast knowledge on child abuse?One child would have been the instigator or aggressor, that may or may not be the older child. Likely that child would have been abused by someone else.
Why do you even care?
Because they're annoying the hell out of me with their stupid (non)arguments and their attitude. Is that reason good enough?why do you even care that somebody else cares?
Because they're annoying the hell out of me with their stupid (non)arguments and their attitude. Is that reason good enough?
wow, i was just myself looking over the threadBecause they're annoying the hell out of me with their stupid (non)arguments and their attitude.
Off-topic or not, it's a very welcome change from the recent discussions on this thread.I hope this question isn't off-topic, but what did the other members of The Smiths think of the homoerotic imagery used in the early years of the band? No matter how gay-friendly or tolerant they may have been, I would imagine it was kind of worrying to see the cover photos of the "Hand In Glove" single and the first album (blow job scene from a Warhol film). Most straight guys, I imagine, would not be thrilled to be associated with a "gay band" image.
Well, the cover of Hand In Glove doesn't show two men having sex, fondling or kissing. It shows a naked man. If you're a woman, why would you see it as homoerotic?I think other members somehow trusted the artistic direction of Morrissey.
Morrissey had a clear vision of the band image and managed to convince them to follow his idea.
Personally I didn't find Hand In Glove's sleeve as homo erotic and I didn't know about Warhol/Paul Morrissey's film "Flesh" which steel is used for the first album.
Both of the image are used very tasteful manner and very iconic.
You can see their influence on the numerous other bands notably Gene and Belle and Sebastian's sleeve designs.
I've seen the Paul Morrissey film "Flesh", it's very interesting. Did anyone else see it? I downloaded it, but my copy isn't in the best condition, some parts are missing, including part of that scene.
You don't think M actually reads this, do you? Besides, did he not say, "I am open, it's all in the songs?" And he also has said that his first sexual experience happened when he was 12 or 13. I would maintain that 12-13 year olds are not capable of having a truly consensual sexual relationship. There is no such thing as consent for a person that young. Sexual abuse often leads to problems in developing a healthy adult sexuality. It all adds up. And, it actually doesn't reflect at all on him. You can't always control what people do to you. You can only potentially control your reaction to it.
I would maintain that 12-13 year olds are not capable of having a truly consensual sexual relationship. There is no such thing as consent for a person that young. Sexual abuse often leads to problems in developing a healthy adult sexuality.
i hate that showI think someone's been watching a wee bit too much Law & Order.
There are also some interesting comments in "Songs That Saved Your Life" about the Smiths' first bassist, Dale Hibbert. He claims that he was sacked because The Smiths were planning a 'gay band' image, and that Hibbert didn't fit in because he was married with kids. "It was Steven's idea. I mean the tape of 'I Want a Boy...' was going to be on the first demo, so obviously a song like that would go hand in hand with that kind of image. Steven said "We're going to be a gay band, but in a Tom Robinson, effeminate kind of way, but in the undelying macho type way." It was a very strongly manufactured image that was being prepared".