Are Vegans just being elitist & pious?

Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?
 
Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

well obviously it has had an affect on you. How is it over the top? People are free to eat what they want.
 
Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.
 
No. Absolutely don't agree. I admire anyone who can be vegan. They're not elitist, but simply care passionately about animal welfare.

The dairy industry is inherently cruel. Males calves are either shot at a day old or sent to veal crates. Their mothers suffer endless pregnancies and infected teats to produce unnatural quantities of milk, which is meant for baby cows, not us!

Rant over, but why do you feel so threatened by vegans? Which is a ludricrous idea in itself, gentle souls that they are. :D
 
Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

Sensitivity is much appreciated! :)
 
Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?


Its a difficult one really.I'm veggie not vegan.But you see as long as there is milk production there will be calves and they will be slaughtered.

I'd love to be vegan but I cannot be without dairy as i don't like soya milk and soya products much.
 
Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :).

great post here madam:)
wellsclaprc8.gif


PS. don't apologize.




Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

Sunday @ 3, is that alright with you?
 
Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

I'm just trying to be reasonable. :)

That's the most reasonable post I've seen in a Veggie thread on these boards yet. Hallelujah! :)

A rare quality on here! :D

Amen! :D
 
Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

I understand what you're saying in a way. I had friends that didn't own a television and they always talked about how they didn't watch television. Now I don't watch television either, and haven't for a couple of years at home, but when people try to talk about television I hesitate to say that I don't watch it because I remember how my friends were elitist about it.

On the other hand, saying "meat is good and I like it" is different. If you want to eat it, that is your right, legally, and you can do so, but you can't be upset if people look down on it. there are always people that judge other people.

So it's boring for people to act like they are better, but people that see things differently than you do may be judgmental and in this case you can't really expect everyone to just accept it. Where I live the majority of the people eat meat and it's the people that don't that are the ones that are asked to explain their diet at meals with friends and family.
 
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Meat-free - the new vegetarian
The Grocer thinks vegetarian is a dirty word. Anna Pickard explains why and comes up with a few of her own
February 6, 2008 10:00 AM

A meat-free roast ready for the oven. Photograph: Graham Turner

According to The Grocer, it seems that 'vegetarian' is a dirty word to many British consumers. I can think of many more dirty words, some of them even concerning vegetables, but that's not the point right now. The point right now is that supermarkets have found that while people seem to avoid the term 'vegetarian' when attached to a label, they're more excited by the positive language encapsulated in the term 'meat-free'.

With a 5.5% increase in the meatless market, supermarkets are now looking to maximise the potential of people who may not want to label themselves as 'vegetarian', but perhaps don't choose to include meat in every single meal - whether for health, expense, or ethical reasons. But why?

But why is 'vegetarian' a difficult word for people to ally themselves to? Is it the memory of unappetising vegetarian options glimpsed over tables? The grim one-person teas you made for yourself during years of over-zealous Morrissey-led teenage temporary vegetarianism while the rest of the family were tucking into shepherd's pie? (I'm speaking for myself here, four years of meatlessness for little other reason than The Smiths told me it was the thing to do).

Or is it because people associate the term with a strictness of being that they find unattractive, together with political or personality statements that they feel publicly branding oneself as a vegetarian might carry? Like teetotalers or Gordon Brown.

Funnily enough, I was just watching Come Dine With Me (so shoot me, it's a sinful pleasure, watching other people's dinner parties go wrong) and a Texan guest was heard to declare "Ah, vegetarian - an old Indian word for bad hunter" - which is the kind of mindset that it would seem many people have - surely you'd only want to eat vegetarian having failed at eating proper food.

On the contrary, of course, people are choosing to eat non-meat-based meals for an increasing number of reasons, with health and fitness, an increasing awareness of five-a-days and distasteful farming practices being only some.

So while they might never want to term their choice a vegetarian one, there's not many people who might feel ashamed of ordering something with a little circled 'v' next to it on the menu. Now that restaurants have stepped up to the plate, with restaurants like Terre A Terre in Brighton, Manna in London and Greens in Manchester providing vegetarian gourmet menus which prove that, unlike in the 70s, asking for the vegetarian - sorry, meat-free - option does not mean getting a lump of cheese and half an iceberg lettuce plonked on a plate (sometimes with a handful of prawns because no one was quite sure whether they counted or not).

So the problem has traditionally been that perhaps people see it as a negative choice rather than a positive one - that you're shutting doors and saying 'You MUST not eat this thing', whereas 'meat-free' has the fluffy noughties feeling of 'hey! free yourselves of the need to eat meat for every meal!' as if all omnivores were doing that in the first place.

So because we're all desperate to feel that we're free to do as we want, any old time, we perhaps feel better about eating vegetables if we can pretend we're ridding ourselves of something bad while we're at it - like it makes any difference what the pasta and pesto bake was called.

It can't be a bad thing - whether people are doing it on a full-time or meal-by-meal basis - if people are being more aware of what they're putting in their mouths. But that doesn't stop it from sounding a little silly that yes, on a basic level the supermarkets now wish to concentrate on the 'meat-reducers', as this new breed of consumer is called, as they open up the vegetarian market away from the ... well, we can't call them vegetarians anymore, I suppose. So, meat-excluders? So they're opening up the meat-free selection for meat-reducers as well as meat-excluders, and allowing the meat-maximisers to do as they wish, as, in fact, they were always going to.

This sounds like a whole new game - making up new definitions for silly marketing terms:

Meat-reducer: The machine that turns a perfectly good bird into a turkey twizzler.

Meat-excluder: Wadding that you can put under the door to stop meat from seeping in on cold winter nights.

Meat-maximiser: Something that you can get from the classified ads in the back pages of low-brow Sunday newspaper magazines.

A new word for 'vegetarians who eat fish' (pro-piscine-meat-excluders?) will be added as soon as we think of it.
 
Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

no. I think anything else is a personal choice.
 
Meat-free - the new vegetarian
The Grocer thinks vegetarian is a dirty word. Anna Pickard explains why and comes up with a few of her own
February 6, 2008 10:00 AM

A meat-free roast ready for the oven. Photograph: Graham Turner

According to The Grocer, it seems that 'vegetarian' is a dirty word to many British consumers. I can think of many more dirty words, some of them even concerning vegetables, but that's not the point right now. The point right now is that supermarkets have found that while people seem to avoid the term 'vegetarian' when attached to a label, they're more excited by the positive language encapsulated in the term 'meat-free'.

With a 5.5% increase in the meatless market, supermarkets are now looking to maximise the potential of people who may not want to label themselves as 'vegetarian', but perhaps don't choose to include meat in every single meal - whether for health, expense, or ethical reasons. But why?

But why is 'vegetarian' a difficult word for people to ally themselves to? Is it the memory of unappetising vegetarian options glimpsed over tables? The grim one-person teas you made for yourself during years of over-zealous Morrissey-led teenage temporary vegetarianism while the rest of the family were tucking into shepherd's pie? (I'm speaking for myself here, four years of meatlessness for little other reason than The Smiths told me it was the thing to do).

Or is it because people associate the term with a strictness of being that they find unattractive, together with political or personality statements that they feel publicly branding oneself as a vegetarian might carry? Like teetotalers or Gordon Brown.

Funnily enough, I was just watching Come Dine With Me (so shoot me, it's a sinful pleasure, watching other people's dinner parties go wrong) and a Texan guest was heard to declare "Ah, vegetarian - an old Indian word for bad hunter" - which is the kind of mindset that it would seem many people have - surely you'd only want to eat vegetarian having failed at eating proper food.

On the contrary, of course, people are choosing to eat non-meat-based meals for an increasing number of reasons, with health and fitness, an increasing awareness of five-a-days and distasteful farming practices being only some.

So while they might never want to term their choice a vegetarian one, there's not many people who might feel ashamed of ordering something with a little circled 'v' next to it on the menu. Now that restaurants have stepped up to the plate, with restaurants like Terre A Terre in Brighton, Manna in London and Greens in Manchester providing vegetarian gourmet menus which prove that, unlike in the 70s, asking for the vegetarian - sorry, meat-free - option does not mean getting a lump of cheese and half an iceberg lettuce plonked on a plate (sometimes with a handful of prawns because no one was quite sure whether they counted or not).

So the problem has traditionally been that perhaps people see it as a negative choice rather than a positive one - that you're shutting doors and saying 'You MUST not eat this thing', whereas 'meat-free' has the fluffy noughties feeling of 'hey! free yourselves of the need to eat meat for every meal!' as if all omnivores were doing that in the first place.

So because we're all desperate to feel that we're free to do as we want, any old time, we perhaps feel better about eating vegetables if we can pretend we're ridding ourselves of something bad while we're at it - like it makes any difference what the pasta and pesto bake was called.

It can't be a bad thing - whether people are doing it on a full-time or meal-by-meal basis - if people are being more aware of what they're putting in their mouths. But that doesn't stop it from sounding a little silly that yes, on a basic level the supermarkets now wish to concentrate on the 'meat-reducers', as this new breed of consumer is called, as they open up the vegetarian market away from the ... well, we can't call them vegetarians anymore, I suppose. So, meat-excluders? So they're opening up the meat-free selection for meat-reducers as well as meat-excluders, and allowing the meat-maximisers to do as they wish, as, in fact, they were always going to.

This sounds like a whole new game - making up new definitions for silly marketing terms:

Meat-reducer: The machine that turns a perfectly good bird into a turkey twizzler.

Meat-excluder: Wadding that you can put under the door to stop meat from seeping in on cold winter nights.

Meat-maximiser: Something that you can get from the classified ads in the back pages of low-brow Sunday newspaper magazines.

A new word for 'vegetarians who eat fish' (pro-piscine-meat-excluders?) will be added as soon as we think of it.

great. it's true of anything that you "give up". if you see it as depriving yourself of it, it's difficult. The article does a good job summing up the image people have of vegetarians as not being very much fun.
 
Which is of course, completely untrue! :D

'Fun? I would never do anything as vulgar as having fun!'
 
A rare quality on here! :D

great post here madam:)
PS. don't apologize.

Sunday @ 3, is that alright with you?

That's the most reasonable post I've seen in a Veggie thread on these boards yet. Hallelujah! :)

Amen! :D

Thanks guys. :) It's not that I try to please anyone with my post, it's just the way I feel and think about it. Extremism is not good for anyone.

I apologized because I really didn't want to offend anyone. And yes, Sunday at 3 is perfect. :D

On the other hand, saying "meat is good and I like it" is different. If you want to eat it, that is your right, legally, and you can do so, but you can't be upset if people look down on it. there are always people that judge other people.

Sure, but it works the other way around too. You can't be upset if people look down on you cause you're veggie. Well, actually you can, being judgemental on others is not nice, but people still do it. I can't speak for others, I'm just saying that in no way do I look down on anyone for being a veggie. But extremism scares me and sometimes even makes me sick. And it scares me how extreme people can be towards others for the sake of animal protection.

So it's boring for people to act like they are better, but people that see things differently than you do may be judgmental and in this case you can't really expect everyone to just accept it. Where I live the majority of the people eat meat and it's the people that don't that are the ones that are asked to explain their diet at meals with friends and family.

Again I say that I can't speak for others. I accept your choice, that's the most I can do.
 
but why do you feel so threatened by vegans? :D

People are threatened by vegans because it makes them feel bad about themselves. They know deep down that we are right but they are too greedy/selfish/lazy to do it themselves so feel the need to constantly ridicule. If we are self righteous, it's because we are entitled to be a bit. I'm sick of it, I don't have a go at meat eaters (much) and try to keep out of debates about animal rights because I get ganged up on, as if I have done something wrong, when I'm just trying to do something good. :mad:
 
Following my recent "My Wife Has Converted To Veggie" thread, a number of comments were made about being Vegan, and how anything other than being that is a cop-out.I disagree with this sanctimonious statement.

If you don't eat meat, & buy free-range eggs & organic milk, that is enough. Anything else is just over-the-top fanatacism.

Agree?

I can agree that 90% of the vegans I have personally met in my life have been elitist snobs. but the other 10% are pretty even keel and don't get embarrassing at a restaurant. I see what you mean though. Too many vegans don't give vegetarians the credit they deserve for not eating flesh... ironic for those on this forum, since, from what I've gathered, Morrissey is not vegan.

and PS vegans dont make me feel bad about myself at all. In fact, I feel pretty good about myself NOT being vegan.
 
I think vegans might be a little defensive because most of us have been cross examined in social situations by people intent upon discovering whether we're extremists. People seem to perceive our diet as a political position, and an oddly threatening one. It's pretty surreal at times. People assume so much based upon your dietary choice, and you're placed in the position of having to defend your decisions. I have a hard time understanding why anybody cares what I eat or don't eat. But then in real life (unlike the internet) I'm scrupulously polite and quite well brought up.:rolleyes: Mother always said that if a person offers you something to eat and you don't want it, just smile and say, "No thank you" and leave it at that.

Funnily enough, whenever someone's demanding answers about my diet the whole conversation changes if I mention that I'm a Buddhist. Nobody's threatened by Buddhists, except maybe my mother who still thinks I'm going to Hell. :eek:
 
Sorry, I don't agree because I find this whole vegetarian/vegan/carnivore debate ridiculous. We are all adults and can decide for ourselves what to do. If you are vegetarian or vegan, I respect your decision and I'm not trying to convince you not to do it. But this is what I would expect of you in exchange. I eat meat because I like it and this is my decision. There is no such thing as an ultimate good way for everyone. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat meat, I'm happy for you, and I respect you for that. If you think that you make the world better because you don't eat any animal product, well that's your decision and I respect you for that. What I am unwilling to accept though is that you think you're better than me. That kind of approach makes me really sick.

I apologize for having ventured to a veggie/vegan thread. I just wanted to share my thoughts with you, if you're interested. If not, just skip my post. :)

Ps: If you're veggie and sensitive about it, I will make veggie food only when I invite you for dinner. I will not make you watch us eating meat. It's all about mutual respect, at least as I see it.

I wish I could express myself like you did, EP. My thoughts exactly. Thank you for this great post! :)
(Just wanted to say that.)
 
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