Years of refusal - track order - would you do it differently?

[ray_afraid]

i cannot believe how people are going on and on and on and on about these two tracks. so the f*** what? these tracks arent "old." most people arent rabid die hard Morrissey fans, and most people have not bought 9 copies of the singles already and most people have not seen him 38 times last year, so MOST PEOPLE who will buy this album, who are just normal everyday fans, probably have never even heard these songs before. maybe once live, but they dont remember. or maybe for those in the UK, they heard one on the radio once or twice. for the vast majority of people buying this album, I'd say these are ALL brand new tracks. maybe that's what they had in mind. its really simple.

This.

 

[ray_afraid]

I love this Ray!

Glad you like it! Maybe Moz will get wise and arrange the tracks in that order by February!

 

[dizzywhore_1804]

i cannot believe how people are going on and on and on and on about these two tracks. so the f*** what? these tracks arent "old." most people arent rabid die hard Morrissey fans, and most people have not bought 9 copies of the singles already and most people have not seen him 38 times last year, so MOST PEOPLE who will buy this album, who are just normal everyday fans, probably have never even heard these songs before. maybe once live, but they dont remember. or maybe for those in the UK, they heard one on the radio once or twice. for the vast majority of people buying this album, I'd say these are ALL brand new tracks. maybe that's what they had in mind. its really simple.

Even if you're saying a casual Morrissey fan (and for arguments sake assume they buy one copy of each album and that is it): anyone who has a copy of Greatest Hits will have heard those two songs for about a year, which is quite substantial.

 

[ray_afraid]

Even if you're saying a casual Morrissey fan (and for arguments sake assume they buy one copy of each album and that is it): anyone who has a copy of Greatest Hits will have heard those two songs for about a year, which is quite substantial.

Well, as far as I can tell, only dedicated Moz fans bothered with the Greatest Hits collection, so I'd say most casual fans have never heard it.
Actually, most of the fans I know didn't bother buying that collection either. I think it's easy to hang around on websites such as this being surrounded by fellow fans and think that the majority of Moz fans are obsessed followers who can't wait to grab every release (like me). That's just not true. The majority of people aren't overly familiar with those tracks and won't be put off with their inclusion on this album.

 

[Suedebread]

You beat me to this!
I have indeed rearranged the tracks and I think it runs MUCH better this way!
Try and see...

1. All You Need Is Me
2. Something is Squeezing My Skull
3. Black Cloud
4. I'm OK By Myself
5. I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris
6. When Last I Spoke to Carol
7. You Were Good In Your Time
8. It's Not Your Birthday Anymore
9. Sorry Doesn't Help
10.That's How People Grow Up
11.Mama Lay Softly on the River Bed
12.Someday Goodbye Will Be Farewell

I think the songs really flow together well in this order.

Tried this this morning, and it did flow very well, apart from I'm OK By Myself at 4, which really jarred when it swooped in after Black Cloud.

Very nice otherwise.

 

[ray_afraid]

Tried this this morning, and it did flow very well, apart from I'm OK By Myself at 4, which really jarred when it swooped in after Black Cloud.

Very nice otherwise.

haha the BC/IOBM crash is one of my favorite parts.
and thank you!

 

[nugz]

Even if you're saying a casual Morrissey fan (and for arguments sake assume they buy one copy of each album and that is it): anyone who has a copy of Greatest Hits will have heard those two songs for about a year, which is quite substantial.

no one bought that.

Well, as far as I can tell, only dedicated Moz fans bothered with the Greatest Hits collection, so I'd say most casual fans have never heard it.
Actually, most of the fans I know didn't bother buying that collection either. I think it's easy to hang around on websites such as this being surrounded by fellow fans and think that the majority of Moz fans are obsessed followers who can't wait to grab every release (like me). That's just not true. The majority of people aren't overly familiar with those tracks and won't be put off with their inclusion on this album.

zactly.

 

[LukaInExile]

Just take out the two greatest hits singles and it flows fine.

I like the songs and they fit in the album. I never bought the greatest hits since it was the same old same old. That\'s How People Grow Up is one of my favorites.

I also love I\'m throwing My Arms Around Paris which is another song people moan about. They sound classic Moz but people fail to realize it.

I would drop You Were Good In Your Own Time since two minutes of this song is nothing but noise.

Oh come on you whiners. If David Bowie did it (and he has done similar things), people would not complain. Poor morrissey has to put up with his bitchy fans (granted that is what he does in his songs so it makes sense he attracts these type of people). The song is beautiful and you are ready to toss it out because of ambient sounds at the end. wow. I am guessing it is contributed by that Morricone guy.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Oh come on you whiners. If David Bowie did it (and he has done similar things), people would not complain. Poor morrissey has to put up with his bitchy fans (granted that is what he does in his songs so it makes sense he attracts these type of people). The song is beautiful and you are ready to toss it out because of ambient sounds at the end. wow. I am guessing it is contributed by that Morricone guy.

I don't care what David Bowie does. I just don't like a song with to minutes of noise at the end in the middle of an album. It heavily disrupts the flow of the album. It should have been a b-side or put at the end of the album.

 

[Vauxhall95]

Well, as far as I can tell, only dedicated Moz fans bothered with the Greatest Hits collection, so I'd say most casual fans have never heard it.

Then I'm confused to who exactly the album was targeted at? Don't "casual" fans tend to buy greatest hits compilations? If the inclusion of the two new songs were to placate hardcore Morrissey fans, then why reintroduce them in the next album? If a casual fan didn't want a collection of the best selling Morrissey singles of all time plus two new tracks, what makes you think they'll be anymore interested in "Years of Refusal?"

 

[nugz]

Then I'm confused to who exactly the album was targeted at? Don't "casual" fans tend to buy greatest hits compilations? If the inclusion of the two new songs were to placate hardcore Morrissey fans, then why reintroduce them in the next album? If a casual fan didn't want a collection of the best selling Morrissey singles of all time plus two new tracks, what makes you think they'll be anymore interested in "Years of Refusal?"

I look as Greatest Hits compilations as geared towards people who are lookin to get into an artist and don't know which album to buy first. so they buy a greatest hits to get a good feel of them. so not quite casual fan status, but more like....new fan.

and then theres the weirdos who just have to buy every single thing he ever released, just cuz. ...as ray pointed out.

 

[dizzywhore_1804]

Then I'm confused to who exactly the album was targeted at? Don't "casual" fans tend to buy greatest hits compilations? If the inclusion of the two new songs were to placate hardcore Morrissey fans, then why reintroduce them in the next album? If a casual fan didn't want a collection of the best selling Morrissey singles of all time plus two new tracks, what makes you think they'll be anymore interested in "Years of Refusal?"

My point exactly: 'casual' fans are more likely to pick up a Greatest Hits than a random studio album.
And whatever way you look at it, the Greatest Hits (from what I can gather on this website, I still can't negotiate the 'search' function with any regular success) went top 5 in the UK. That's pretty good considering that some people think 'nobody' bought it.

And again I'd say I don't think including them on the album is that bad, just that it really interupts the flow of listening to new material to be suddenly confronted with two ageing tracks.

 

[ray_afraid]

zactly.

We agree. Lets party!

Then I'm confused to who exactly the album was targeted at?

So was/am I.

If a casual fan didn't want a collection of the best selling Morrissey singles of all time plus two new tracks, what makes you think they'll be anymore interested in "Years of Refusal?"

Nothing does unfortunately. But the hope would be (as with all releases) that people unfamiliar with his music would hear one of the singles from this and then want to go buy the album.

 

[northernleech]

Re: a local shop for local moz fans

i don't know if i am breaking any rules here but i had the album on at work today , and i will have it on again tomorrow too at some point ! so if you are northern english and you have the tyne (sorry time) then a trip to your favourite music store could pay dividends from monday onwards . it sound really good and is growing on me with every listen

 

[Vauxhall95]

I tried quite a radical re-ordering and made up my own rules: I dropped THPGU. I added "Children in Pieces" and "My Dearest Love." I also re-mixed "You Were Good in Your Time" removing the two minute breakdown at the end. For me, this re-mix really works. There are no prolonged lulls, I get the lyrical depth I so want, and I get rid of that hideous breakdown in what I believe is a great song in "You Were Good in Your Time."

Children in Pieces
It's Not Your Birthday Anymore
My Dearest Love
Something is Squeezing My Skull
You Were Good in Your Time (Remix)
Mama Lay Softly on the Riverbed
I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris
I'm Okay By Myself
Black Cloud
All You Need Is Me
Sorry Doesn't Help
When Last I Spoke to Carol
One Day Goodbye Will Be Farewell

To each their own but for me it makes the album utterly enjoyable. In particular, the remix of "You Were Good in You Time" keeps the album moving along quite nicely.

 

[CanYouSeeTheBlackCloud?]

I tried quite a radical re-ordering and made up my own rules: I dropped THPGU. I added "Children in Pieces" and "My Dearest Love." I also re-mixed "You Were Good in Your Time" removing the two minute breakdown at the end. For me, this re-mix really works. There are no prolonged lulls, I get the lyrical depth I so want, and I get rid of that hideous breakdown in what I believe is a great song in "You Were Good in Your Time."

Children in Pieces
It's Not Your Birthday Anymore
My Dearest Love
Something is Squeezing My Skull
You Were Good in Your Time (Remix)
Mama Lay Softly on the Riverbed
I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris
I'm Okay By Myself
Black Cloud
All You Need Is Me
Sorry Doesn't Help
When Last I Spoke to Carol
One Day Goodbye Will Be Farewell

To each their own but for me it makes the album utterly enjoyable. In particular, the remix of "You Were Good in You Time" keeps the album moving along quite nicely.

"Remix" is a bit too strong a term. What I'm guessing you did is cut two minutes off the end of the song using Audacity.

I went one step further and just removed the song from the running order altogether, as it is crap. Does that mean I can say I am a record producer? (Sorry, couldn't resist that one!)

 

[Vauxhall95]

"Remix" is a bit too strong a term. What I'm guessing you did is cut two minutes off the end of the song using Audacity.

I went one step further and just removed the song from the running order altogether, as it is crap. Does that mean I can say I am a record producer? (Sorry, couldn't resist that one!)

I used some "Total Recorder" program (I'll look into Audacity). I couldn't disagree more: I think it's a fantastic song MINUS the last two minutes. Yes, "remix" is too strong, but I don't want to argue semantics.

 

[CanYouSeeTheBlackCloud?]

I used some "Total Recorder" program (I'll look into Audacity). I couldn't disagree more: I think it's a fantastic song MINUS the last two minutes. Yes, "remix" is too strong, but I don't want to argue semantics.

Don't call me Semantics in public, Shirley....