Further Royal discussion

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
You think animal products on the supermarket shelves don’t involve blood shed?

Don’t be thick. That’s not what she’s saying.

She said ….

‘Thankfully we don't have to shed blood and take lives in order to get our food nowadays.’

So obviously she knows products in meat markets involve blood shedding. And with her previous comments she’s obviously against it.

This is a perfect example of food source disassociation.

The suffering animals go through during an imprisoned factory farming life and the abattoir killing processes far outweigh any suffering a free flying grouse feels from a single shot.

Trying to distinguish between the processes of the killing is by the by. The end goal is the same, someone’s dinner plate.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
No. Grouse is a bird. Buffalo is a mammal.

But is it law now that the royals or non working royals will no longer hunt forevermore ?
Who said that? Not me. Any more that it isn’t law that you or I won’t eat chicken.

I was pointing out there is no difference for a royal to shoot a grouse and eat it than someone going to the supermarket to buy a chicken.

I was being pushed to answer whether the shooting of grouse was for pleasure or consumption and the answer is that it is for consumption and pleasure as is any consumption of an animal product.

The eating of any bird whether it be chicken or grouse is for pleasure so there is no distinction re consumption or pleasure.

The response back was that ancient hunter gatherer methods of bloodshed aren’t necessary now we have modern methods for for sourcing food.

I would argue the suffering is greater from modern supermarket factory farmed produce than shooting a grouse from the sky.

Both the same objective, consumption and pleasure and both not necessary.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Don’t be thick. That’s not what she’s saying.

She said ….

‘Thankfully we don't have to shed blood and take lives in order to get our food nowadays.’

So obviously she knows products in meat markets involve blood shedding. And with her previous comments she’s obviously against it.
Wrong and it is you being thick

She actually said she didn’t want to talk about NOT eating meat and said that we don’t need to shed blood to get our food nowadays because modern methods of sourcing food mean we don’t need to use ancient hunter gatherer methods.

You are missing the point and assuming that she doesn’t eat meat or animal products and I don’t think that assumption is correct.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
well i dont think hunting is necessarily right or wrong. it's true that it's unnecessary, but does that make it more cruel than if it were necessary? if they were dying in horrible ways or being tortured, like as with bear traps, then yes, that would be absolutely wrong. but to die by a gun shot wound it's probably one of the better deaths an animal of prey can have. i just find it hard to ascibe moral judgments to something that the survival of humanity may at times have depended upon. and im sure that there are some people who still have that biological instinct to hunt.

If one is not living in the wild and so is not a part of the natural food chain, then there is no justification to kill animals in anyway.

Yes use to, people use it. I understand that.

I don’t believe in a biological instinct to hunt(kill). I would call that ‘instinct’ a form of insanity, a sickness.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
If one is not living in the wild and so is not a part of the natural food chain, then there is no justification to kill animals in anyway.

Yes use to, people use it. I understand that.

I don’t believe in a biology instinct to hunt(kill). I would call that ‘instinct’ insanity.
You are vegan?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
If one is not living in the wild and so is not a part of the natural food chain, then there is no justification to kill animals in anyway.

Yes use to, people use it. I understand that.

I don’t believe in a biological instinct to hunt(kill). I would call that ‘instinct’ a form of insanity, a sickness.
Are you saying that there is no reason for an individual to kill an animal themselves or are you saying there is no reason for anyone to consume any animal products at all?

Please clarify
 

spent

Well-Known Member
If one is not living in the wild and so is not a part of the natural food chain, then there is no justification to kill animals in anyway.

Yes use to, people use it. I understand that.

I don’t believe in a biological instinct to hunt(kill). I would call that ‘instinct’ a form of insanity, a sickness.
I highly appreciate the way you present your viewpoint. Though I do not agree with you on everything, I can perfectly understand where you are coming from. Thank you very much.
 

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
If one is not living in the wild and so is not a part of the natural food chain, then there is no justification to kill animals in anyway.

Yes use to, people use it. I understand that.

I don’t believe in a biological instinct to hunt(kill). I would call that ‘instinct’ a form of insanity, a sickness.
well that may be so, but killing is wrong when it is novel. the fact of hunting being a tradition of ones culture takes away the novelty of it. if you were to go to great expense and trouble to fly to africa to kill a giraffe on the other hand, that's an incredibly novel thing, and so to me thats quite twisted. (whereas if maasai people were to kill a giraffe with a spear, i would just say "oh well!"). but to do something that has been sanctioned in your culture for centuries, that you've been brought up with, well, it may still be wrong, but it doesnt have the implications of anything untoward that you wouldnt want in a monarch or leader that spent is trying to say it has.
 
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Les Tameside

Guest
well that may be so, but killing is wrong when it is novel. the fact of hunting being a tradition of ones culture takes away the novelty of it. if you were to go to great expense and trouble to fly to africa to kill a giraffe on the other hand, that's an incredibly novel thing, and so to me thats quite twisted. (whereas if maasai people were to kill a giraffe with a spear, i would just say "oh well!"). but to do something that has been sanctioned in your culture for centuries, that you've been brought up with, well, it may still be wrong, but it doesnt have the implications of anything untoward that you wouldnt want in a monarch or leader that spent is trying to say it has.
And this is where it gets meshed into the class system: they do it simply because most people don’t/can’t. It becomes insidious when they don’t concede that.

They simply will not discuss it ever. And to be frank, if King Charles is unprepared to speak about the destination of the millions handed to his aid by the slavery-endorsing PM of Qatar (because it was too dirty for him to touch) then—outside of Morrissey-Solo—big game hunting is the least of his family’s issues.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
And this is where it gets meshed into the class system: they do it simply because most people don’t/can’t. It becomes insidious when they don’t concede that.

They simply will not discuss it ever. And to be frank, if King Charles is unprepared to speak about the destination of the millions handed to his aid by the slavery-endorsing PM of Qatar (because it was too dirty for him to touch) then—outside of Morrissey-Solo—big game hunting is the least of his family’s issues.
He did speak about the charity donation and has been fully investigated by the charity commission and was completed cleared of any wrong doing. But maybe you know something they don’t?

You keep mentioning big game hunting and I have asked for details of this hunting and you haven’t provided it and still you bang on about it.

The only big game hunting that is known was over 50 years ago and was the Duke of edinburgh and the queen but I am not aware of any other working royal who has taken part in big game hunting.

So please if you are going to make such accusations at least have the intelligence to back it up with links to the detail and facts.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
And this is where it gets meshed into the class system: they do it simply because most people don’t/can’t. It becomes insidious when they don’t concede that.

They simply will not discuss it ever. And to be frank, if King Charles is unprepared to speak about the destination of the millions handed to his aid by the slavery-endorsing PM of Qatar (because it was too dirty for him to touch) then—outside of Morrissey-Solo—big game hunting is the least of his family’s issues.
The main discussion in this thread was related with to grouse shooting which is shooting birds for food. No different to sponsoring someone killing a chicken by buying chicken in a supermarket. In fact supermarket chicken is a produce of far more cruelty.

Any animal product consumption is cruel to animals.
 

Ketamine Sun

Now, today, tomorrow and always
well that may be so, but killing is wrong when it is novel. the fact of hunting being a tradition of ones culture takes away the novelty of it. if you were to go to great expense and trouble to fly to africa to kill a giraffe on the other hand, that's an incredibly novel thing, and so to me thats quite twisted. (whereas if maasai people were to kill a giraffe with a spear, i would just say "oh well!").

I think we’re on the same page on this part then, tradition and rituals that go with hunting. I’m just looking at that as survival, where in that way of life, one is naturally apart of the food chain, so it’s understandable. Though I’ve heard of them, I don’t know anything about that tribe.
 

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
I think we’re on the same page on this part then, tradition and rituals that go with hunting. I’m just looking at that as survival, where in that way of life, one is naturally apart of the food chain, so it’s understandable. Though I’ve heard of them, I don’t know anything about that tribe.
haha, im pretty sure maasai dont kill giraffes (for what purpose?!). but if they did, i would say "oh well!" lovely people, though. i read that memoir about that domineering swiss woman who married one of them and went to live in his boma because she thought he was a babe. (spoiler: it didnt work out).

i guess in an ideal world we, all of us in first world countries anyway, would all be vegan. but so long as all of us are not vegan, i dont see anything wrong with hunting for your meat, rather than buying it as a supermarket. of course i dont want any part in it. i have no interest in congratulating someone on their kill, or sampling any of their kill, or anything like that. but the knowledge that someone does it doesnt particularly bother me. ill tell you what though, i get so mad in my job when some old lady comes through with a package of lamb. it's like "you got to live your life, let the lamb live his!". and then because im passive aggressive ill squeeze their bananas, because bruised bananas is what they deserve!
 

Light Housework

I only feel courageous when I'm psychotic.
haha, im pretty sure maasai dont kill giraffes (for what purpose?!). but if they did, i would say "oh well!" lovely people, though. i read that memoir about that domineering swiss woman who married one of them and went to live in his boma because she thought he was a babe. (spoiler: it didnt work out).

i guess in an ideal world we, all of us in first world countries anyway, would all be vegan. but so long as all of us are not vegan, i dont see anything wrong with hunting for your meat, rather than buying it as a supermarket. of course i dont want any part in it. i have no interest in congratulating someone on their kill, or sampling any of their kill, or anything like that. but the knowledge that someone does it doesnt particularly bother me. ill tell you what though, i get so mad in my job when some old lady comes through with a package of lamb. it's like "you got to live your life, let the lamb live his!". and then because im passive aggressive ill squeeze their bananas, because bruised bananas is what they deserve!
You've never eaten souvlaki?
 

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
ive nothing against eating pigs though, because i hate pigs. awful things.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
This idea that involves speciesism is to the veganism that Morrissey favours hypocrisy.

Whether it is the hunting of a tiger or buffalo for some perverse pastime or the shooting of a grouse for food or the farming and abattoire food production of chickens, cows or pigs, or the killing of male calves in the dairy industry or the fishing of our sea and river based fish products it is all completely unnecessary.

Trying to state one is worse than another doesn’t wash in todays age when no human needs to consume an animal product.

Any animal death for consumption or otherwise is purely for pleasure.
 

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
This idea that involves speciesism is to the veganism that Morrissey favours hypocrisy.

Whether it is the hunting of a tiger or buffalo for some perverse pastime or the shooting of a grouse for food or the farming and abattoire food production of chickens, cows or pigs, or the killing of male calves in the dairy industry or the fishing of our sea and river based fish products it is all completely unnecessary.

Trying to state one is worse than another doesn’t wash in todays age when no human needs to consume an animal product.

Any animal death for consumption or otherwise is purely for pleasure.
so if youre going to eat meat at all, you might as well adopt the chinese approach and eat anything that moves, is that what you're saying?
 
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