FOS discussion

[Aubrey McFate]

Maybe she didn't like his audacious suggestion to re-name the book. To her credit, Folk Devil is actually a good title. The problem is that the content is loony/obsessive/Morrissey's oracle, and not even that compelling as screeds of loonies go. SCUM Manifesto and Industrial Society and Its Future are more dynamic. Although, possibly it would read more interesting if I knew Malarkey had killed somebody.

 

[Malarkey]

There is a real world outside forums Aubs.

 

[A scanty bit of thing]

I don’t know why I got the “WOWE!” face, goinghome! I’m not the one that gave you the Silent Smackdown!

I actually thought you were super thoughtful and very patient, and I thought your advice to her was great. Especially in that you specifically approached your suggestions from the angle of how she could get a real readership interested in something that she’s already put so much time and effort into.

I agree with the implied conclusion of your suggestions, which is that there are some really minimal improvements and tweaks that could make the entire discourse a lot more intriguing and more palatable to a much wider audience, in a way that could potentially avoid the disdain and derision that’s been directed at her through her current presentation.

This is why I was surprised that your thoughtful and nuanced suggestions were met with all of the appreciation and acknowledgment of a large block of concrete.

*shrug*

Not my bidnizz, not my circus, not my monkeys

 

[Malarkey]

I appreciate all advice - but it's in development so I'll see how it goes. Etc.

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

Nope. Freedom of speech means you can speak what you want without being prosecuted for it. It doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you, because having a different opinion is also freedom of speech. Morrissey lives as the most of us on here in the western world where this isn't a real problem at all. Chill out.

I would say M is pretty free and nobody has censored him, not really. His songs can still be heard on the radio, his songs are on streaming sites. he is allowed to play gigs. The reason he isn't signed has nothing to do with trying to silence him, its just economics, fashion and lots just don't like the guy. Simples. Just because you have freedom of speech, it doesn't mean you can make people listen. If you say things people don't like, you have to be prepared for people to hate you and want nothing to do with you. If a radio station or tv show do not want to give you a platform they have the right to that. I do think there is an unfair fecking hate campaign against M , I really bloody do mate

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

Eventbrite is a privately owned company and they may have made decisions over certain events that they deemed to carry a message that is contrary to their beliefs as a company. In the same way any Catholic owned events company would likely not host a pro abortion event.

That is their choice and right. It doesn’t stop the event from taking place and there are many ticketing agencies these events could be marketed through. I don’t think their personal choice equates to silencing. They as a private company have the right to stock whatever product they want unless you think private companies should be forced to see products that don’t want to?

Most private companies these days have pro transgender rights policies and if someone with a high profile position at one of those companies speaks in contradiction to those principals then it can and does lead to employment conflicts as it would if someone stood up and said gay men are unatural and immoral.

But I’ll ask again, what has this to do with your statement that Morrissey has gone through deliberate silencing tactics over the past decade? He doesn’t work for anyone and you haven’t explained what you mean?

You seem to be entirely focused on the transgender feminist issue and I don’t see the relevance to what Morrissey said about freedom to speak?

Right on . A private company has the right to let who they want on. The trouble is if that private company has links with a government and is pushing an agender on the public. Then there need to be fair rules . Youtube is too big to play the fecking private business card I think. Same with Twitter. Elon has the right idea.

 

[Dirk Blaggard]

Not sure how that is relevant to Morrissey? He probably sides on the side of the trans minority to be honest though.

Back in the day, yes. Not these days, not the way the trans lobby is now. M is a 2nd wave feminist, he would be standing with Suzanne Moore , Julie Bindle and Julie Burchill. He has already made a joke about men pretending to have babies or something like that. M hangs with Paul Joseph Watson and styx666 or what the feck ever his name is. LOL

 

[Malarkey]

Back in the day, yes. Not these days, not the way the trans lobby is now. M is a 2nd wave feminist, he would be standing with Suzanne Moore , Julie Bindle and Julie Burchill. He has already made a joke about men pretending to have babies or something like that. M hangs with Paul Joseph Watson and styx666 or what the feck ever his name is. LOL

Being loyal to older women isn't the same thing as always agreeing with them.

In his intro videos he has a drag queen, a non-binary drag queen and a trans woman.

 

[Anonymous]

Back in the day, yes. Not these days, not the way the trans lobby is now. M is a 2nd wave feminist, he would be standing with Suzanne Moore , Julie Bindle and Julie Burchill. He has already made a joke about men pretending to have babies or something like that. M hangs with Paul Joseph Watson and styx666 or what the feck ever his name is. LOL

You think there is logic to the way Morrissey acts or speaks.

If there was you would wonder how M can hang with PJM at all since PJM is an outspoken homophobic anti vegan.

Logic and thought out arguments are not part of his world. Just snippets of rhetoric influenced more than likely from 1 am drunken random searches of YouTube channels.

An illusion of education doesn’t equate to real education.

 

[Anonymous]

One of the first reviews of Madstock picked up on Morrissey's 'gold lame flounce' & lack of masculinity:

…to the gold lame flounce of Morrissey, who, having replaced The Farm, was accorded the proverbial ‘mixed reaction’ for his trouble. But then, Morrissey has never been exactly the most blokeish of performers.
(Andy Gill, 9th August 1992, The Independent)
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...gill-on-madness-in-finsbury-park-1539470.html

So he’s a big camp queen. Who cares?

 

[Anonymous]

No - what changed is that they thought he was sexually active & was putting real gay culture into his work.

And he's been sidelined since Reel Around the Fountain was accused of promoting paedophilia - which is a form of censorship.

That had been there from the start. Watch some of the early interviews of The Smiths. He is blatantly obviously camper than a row of scout tents. Nothing changed. It was pretty common knowledge and most people didn’t care in the slightest any more than Elton John was arriving to parties in a truck because his wig and dress was so big.

 

[Anonymous]

View attachment 90451

over a year? I’m sure they heard of the song Suedehead, and his interest in the Richard Allen skinhead books. So definitely not out of the blue. But they’re not interested in why he’s interested in such things, and they don’t seem to want to make the effort to connect the dots.
Anyway, there’s nothing wrong with the skinhead imagery in the way Morrissey uses it.


But reacting without understanding? So, wouldn’t it be fair if the media at the time, went in depth and asked what that imagery means to him and why he used/uses it? Particularly that day at Madstock? Of course not, they’re not interested, because it gives them their ‘reason’ to hate.

Many people have their uneducated reasons to hate including Morrissey.

It’s freedom to think or not think. Not really something that can be stopped.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Many people have their uneducated reasons to hate including Morrissey.

It’s freedom to think or not think. Not really something that can be stopped.

sure.

But in relation to my concern that journalists do a thorough job so the reader can have a better understanding of the subject’s intentions? which is what my post was about.

 

[Malarkey]

So he’s a big camp queen. Who cares?

The journalists who spent decades writing about it.

Which is a real problem for artists because they're primarily known through what's written about them.

 

[Anonymous]

The journalists who spent decades writing about it.

Which is a real problem for artists because they're primarily known through what's written about them.

Most people in the 15-44 age bracket don’t read newspapers or journalism. Statistically people in this age group are more likely to watch tv and spend less than 10mins a day reading. From studies people in this age group are only likely to read 20% of a page of text.

People for the most part these days find their music interests from streaming sites or from the radio without any interest in any journalistic opinion. The days when people discovered music through the opinions of the likes of the NME are long gone.

People still pay to go to Morrissey gigs and he is a multi millionaire from his music so your idea that he has been silenced by some homophobic historic plan is just not evidenced anywhere and obviously wasn’t very successful if your pie in the sky obsessed theory has any basis of truth.

This is 2023, no one cares if he is gay or not but obviously he has never said he is and has gone out of his way many times to avoid saying so.

You assume people are really stupid and they aren’t. Most people have always seen through the journalistic opinion for decades. There is a difference between journalistic opinion and the reality of what he himself has said and the effects of saying those things has on people.

 

[Malarkey]

Most people in the 15-44 age bracket don’t read newspapers or journalism. Statistically people in this age group are more likely to watch tv and spend less than 10mins a day reading. From studies people in this age group are only likely to read 20% of a page of text.

People for the most part these days find their music interests from streaming sites or from the radio without any interest in any journalistic opinion. The days when people discovered music through the opinions of the likes of the NME are long gone.

People still pay to go to Morrissey gigs and he is a multi millionaire from his music so your idea that he has been silenced by some homophobic historic plan is just not evidenced anywhere and obviously wasn’t very successful if your pie in the sky obsessed theory has any basis of truth.

This is 2023, no one cares if he is gay or not but obviously he has never said he is and has gone out of his way many times to avoid saying so.

You assume people are really stupid and they aren’t. Most people have always seen through the journalistic opinion for decades. There is a difference between journalistic opinion and the reality of what he himself has said and the effects of saying those things has on people.

Journalism feeds online discourse - which young people & the music industry are highly engaged in.

In 2019 his reputation was so bad that it was highly likely that venues and festivals wouldn't book him.

People have never just reacted to the things he's said - we live in a highly mediated world - the same out of context quotes were being shared over & over. After pushback they're being shared less often & that's why his career is somewhat recovering.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Journalism feeds online discourse - which young people & the music industry are highly engaged in.

In 2019 his reputation was so bad that it was highly likely that venues and festivals wouldn't book him.

People have never just reacted to the things he's said - we live in a highly mediated world - the same out of context quotes were being shared over & over. After pushback they're being shared less often & that's why his career is somewhat recovering.

Most people in the 15-44 age bracket don’t read newspapers or journalism. Statistically people in this age group are more likely to watch tv and spend less than 10mins a day reading. From studies people in this age group are only likely to read 20% of a page of text.

People for the most part these days find their music interests from streaming sites or from the radio without any interest in any journalistic opinion. The days when people discovered music through the opinions of the likes of the NME are long gone.

People still pay to go to Morrissey gigs and he is a multi millionaire from his music so your idea that he has been silenced by some homophobic historic plan is just not evidenced anywhere and obviously wasn’t very successful if your pie in the sky obsessed theory has any basis of truth.

This is 2023, no one cares if he is gay or not but obviously he has never said he is and has gone out of his way many times to avoid saying so.

You assume people are really stupid and they aren’t. Most people have always seen through the journalistic opinion for decades. There is a difference between journalistic opinion and the reality of what he himself has said and the effects of saying those things has on people.

Thing is, people don’t need to read the article really, just the clickbait title to form their misinformed opinion, which in turn influences their friends musical tastes.

 

[goinghome]

You think there is logic to the way Morrissey acts or speaks.

If there was you would wonder how M can hang with PJM at all since PJM is an outspoken homophobic anti vegan.

Logic and thought out arguments are not part of his world. Just snippets of rhetoric influenced more than likely from 1 am drunken random searches of YouTube channels.

An illusion of education doesn’t equate to real education.

And see this great world we're living in run by all the highly-educated minions

What paragons of consistent virtue can you proffer to illustrate grounds for your denunciation of Bella Mozzarella?