ZOOM FROM GLOOM
‘I dance so differently I dance alone’
It’s more reasonable to conclude that M didn’t want his picture taken during the interview, that’s also assuming if a photographer of his choosing was even present.
FOS discussion
- Thread starter gashonthenail
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It’s more reasonable to conclude that M didn’t want his picture taken during the interview, that’s also assuming if a photographer of his choosing was even present.
J
j*e*t
Guest
Maybe, but Morrissey was in peak-frink form, so if I was NME editor, I'd want a photo from the interview! The photographer Kevin Cummins is credited with 'recent develoments'. If he was in attendance, it would be great to hear from him (or indeed anyone who was there and is still alive) about the interview.
ZOOM FROM GLOOM
‘I dance so differently I dance alone’
Even if you were, M probably still wouldn’t allow it.
And considering there were no photos taken of him during this interview, it makes more sense to assume that he didn’t want his photo taken and/or there wasn’t a photographer present, rather than believe that NME would go out of their way to not take or show any photos of Morrissey because of the t-shirt he was wearing.
J
j*e*t
Guest
I certainly don't think the NME would go out of their way to not take any photos - I didn't say I did. I was just trying to imagine the scenario: after a boozy evening in Berlin with Morrissey, the lads and Phranc, Stuart gets back to the NME office and the staff want to know all the details, and he tells them Morrissey had on a T-shirt that was skinhead-related, and everyone would surely say, that's interesting, got a photo? Seems a bit lame to have no evidence. Anyway, I found it the most interesting bit in the interview, so I'm sure that's how I'd react, wanting something visual, and I still do! In any case, the NME had over a year to wonder where Morrissey's interest in skinheads was leading before Madstock, so it wasn't a bolt out of the blue. As this thread was originally about free speech, I will say that, as a form of self-expression, I do feel that Morrissey should feel free to use whatever images he chooses, but if there are negative aspects associated with an image the audience can react negatively towards him on that account.
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
The audience didn't heckle about the flag or the skinhead girls.
J
j*e*t
Guest
You can't possibly know that, but supposing it was true, why would Morrissey stop using skinhead imagery when he retured to tour in Britain and Europe in December 1992 (having doubled-down during the USA tour after Madstock by using the images not only on the backdrops but also on tour merchandise - T-shirts and programmes) if it wasn't a problem?
TheSmiths_1985
Moved to off-topic
Here we go. ‘Course she does. You have just indirectly added 23 pages to this thread.
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
I can know it - the homophobic heckling was reported in the music press at the time & it's on tape.
There are repeated references to his skinhead imagery being gay or homoerotic.
A picture of two girls is not going to be more of a problem than his reported 'prancing'.
Troubled-Joe
Hung by my pretty white neck
Glad to see he’s back to using skinhead imagery (well film) on his latest tour.
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
One of the first reviews of Madstock picked up on Morrissey's 'gold lame flounce' & lack of masculinity:
…to the gold lame flounce of Morrissey, who, having replaced The Farm, was accorded the proverbial ‘mixed reaction’ for his trouble. But then, Morrissey has never been exactly the most blokeish of performers.
(Andy Gill, 9th August 1992, The Independent)
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...gill-on-madness-in-finsbury-park-1539470.html
J
j*e*t
Guest
Morrissey has given the impression of being in the glass closet since day one. If the music press (or pop audiences) had a problem with that, he wouldn't have become the star he is today (and NME's MVP for years). What changed was associating himself with skinhead culture, which was generally thought of as being thuggish and having some fascist elements. This thread is about Morrissey's perception of freedom of speech in this country. Has he ever been stopped from expressing his views, or is it self-censorship because others can't be relied upon to understand what he means to convey by, for example, associating himself with political extremism?
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
No - what changed is that they thought he was sexually active & was putting real gay culture into his work.
And he's been sidelined since Reel Around the Fountain was accused of promoting paedophilia - which is a form of censorship.
J
j*e*t
Guest
Rubbish.
Miss Ann Thorpe
misanthrope
One of the first reviews of Madstock picked up on Morrissey's 'gold lame flounce' & lack of masculinity:
…to the gold lame flounce of Morrissey, who, having replaced The Farm, was accorded the proverbial ‘mixed reaction’ for his trouble. But then, Morrissey has never been exactly the most blokeish of performers.
(Andy Gill, 9th August 1992, The Independent)
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...gill-on-madness-in-finsbury-park-1539470.html
I didn't realise that was what was printed in the newspaper. Nowadays, an artist would be praised for not being "the most blokeish of performers".
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
The key issue about Morrissey in June 1992 was his sexuality (from Select):
And this is from Sounds, 10 September 1983 demanding he gets dropped:
ZOOM FROM GLOOM
‘I dance so differently I dance alone’
over a year? I’m sure they heard of the song Suedehead, and his interest in the Richard Allen skinhead books. So definitely not out of the blue. But they’re not interested in why he’s interested in such things, and they don’t seem to want to make the effort to connect the dots.
Anyway, there’s nothing wrong with the skinhead imagery in the way Morrissey uses it.
But reacting without understanding? So, wouldn’t it be fair if the media at the time, went in depth and asked what that imagery means to him and why he used/uses it? Particularly that day at Madstock? Of course not, they’re not interested, because it gives them their ‘reason’ to hate.
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
Sad. One of way too many on that rough road of treatments. I wonder if Tim loitered on MSolo at all during his sick leave?Interesting article today about Tim Jonze. Wish him well, whatever the history
I wanted to scream at other parents: ‘You don’t know how lucky you are’ – how cancer in my 30s brought me face-to-face with death
My world came crashing down when I was told I might have months to live. Terrified, I played word games in bed and unloaded on strangers. Then I realised it was time to start livingwww.theguardian.com
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
The tone taken in that article is incredibly condescending. Who wrote that one? The evident entitlement to judging and labelling another person takes the breath awayIt's the famous one:
NME – 22 August 1992
“Morrissey on cover waving the Union Jack. ‘Flying the flag or flirting with disaster’. The racism allegations issue. Photographs by Kevin Cummins, Chris Hughes, and Renaud Monfou…illnessasart.com
It might be difficult if you're not used to UK journalism - but look out for how often they mention sexuality in an article that shouldn't require any mention of sex at all.
Malarkey's folk-devil.com is a fascinating compendium tracking this kind of problematic press coverage of Morrissey, including ample background where needed, along with key original material. An amazing amount of time and attention must have gone into it. A heroic achievement!
I think I and many Morrissey fans would pick it up if turned into a book, although if that did happen, my suggestions to create a more complete product would be as follows:
- change the name from folk-devil to something like Paint a Vulgar Picture, as part of a trendy double-barrelled title
- include the section about folk-devil theory in a general introduction chapter and add a few more relevant dynamics at play such at defence mechanisms
- send Morrissey's people a summary and link and request comments maybe in an emailed Q & A, to then add to content
- add a few more chapters, each about another entertainer who has experienced similar attacks which would require additional research but much less, since Morrissey would be your flagship case
- refer to dysfunctional wider media behavior, such as Jason Leopold and others has been investigating, and as wielded against Jeremy Corbyn to render him social pariah etc, in a final chapter tidying up threads.
Book or not, Malarkey has found a niche rewarding browsers with some eye-opening discoveries!
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A scanty bit of thing
Hot Mess Express
Goinghome i think Malarkey just gave you the Silent Smackdown!
