could the disaster of 2013 pave the way for a reunion

[Girlmostlikely]

No! No renunion!

I'm so glad it's completely implausible. The Smiths were so special. I don't want to remember them any other way

 

[Jamie]

While both Morrissey and Marr seem to give each other a pass in interviews - generally vague "I don't follow what he does but I'm for him" sentiments or charitable "we were all for one" reminiscences - reunion speculation tends to hinge on nuts-and-bolts business details. I genuinely believe them both to be such vastly different persons now as to lack sufficient common ground to collaborate. It is difficult to envision a partnership working in that capacity again. It's not just a matter of whether the water is now under the bridge, but if they are even still standing on the same one.

 

[Playcat2000]

I feel as if the only people who are asking for a reunion are the ones who are barely getting into The Smiths.
I'm more of a Moz fan than a Smiths fan, but don't get me wrong. The Smiths is where it all started.

After reading interviews, books, & GOOGLE in general. You realize that Morrissey
has no interested what-so-ever to reunite with The Smiths.
I can see a Marr & Moz happening, but the entire four? There's a better chance in winning the lotto.

And we keep forgetting that Morrissey is probably still pissed off that Andy and Mike took him to court and won so any future chances of working together was blown out of water forever when that happened.

 

[Uncleskinny]

There's only one way for all this to go. Only one way.

P.

 

[BrummieBoy]

And we keep forgetting that Morrissey is probably still pissed off that Andy and Mike took him to court and won so any future chances of working together was blown out of water forever when that happened.

He chose to fight a court case rather than settle: he lost the court case. Then griped about it for the next decade. If he's still butt-sore at being revealed as a bit of a clown in his business dealings, then that's his problem, nothing to do with Andy and Mike. He fought the law and the law won. He's fond of using legal measures to prove his point, but the NME 'settlement' showed he hasn't learned much. What's this "we keep forgetting"? Are you positing some sort of communal mind/mass consciousness effect amongst the Fan-Borg-Hive Mind? LOL!

with every good wish, yours in jubilo!

 

[Playcat2000]

He chose to fight a court case rather than settle: he lost the court case. Then griped about it for the next decade. If he's still butt-sore at being revealed as a bit of a clown in his business dealings, then that's his problem, nothing to do with Andy and Mike. He fought the law and the law won. He's fond of using legal measures to prove his point, but the NME 'settlement' showed he hasn't learned much. What's this "we keep forgetting"? Are you positing some sort of communal mind/mass consciousness effect amongst the Fan-Borg-Hive Mind? LOL!

with every good wish, yours in jubilo!

Yeah, no shit! I already said that! You are such a dork!

 

[BrummieBoy]

Yeah, no shit! I already said that! You are such a dork!

Once again, you jump around at my feet like a little puppy, trying to get attention. I have understood you find no nourishment or value in my contribution: there is no need to confirm that endlessly. Whilst you may find me a 'dork' you need to accept that your trite insults are of no interest to me. I am amused by your illiterate attempt to appropriate my cutting-edge thinking as your own. "I already said that!". No, you didn't. You made a simplistiment statement. I made a detailed, layered analysis of events, which you could never do without several years in remedial education and creative writing courses. I am tired of your trolling, it's hardly new or fresh. I realise you are highly embarassed by your inability to express yourself other than in cliche and insults, but that is your challenge.

I will continue to remain 'on topic' and will not be distracted by your tiresome attempts to ingratiate yourself with my persona.

If a reunion was ever going to happen, it would have to be because Morrissey re-evaluated his behaviour, made appropriate apologies and restitution to those he has alienated, and then celebrated his immense good fortune in ever having been part of The Smiths collective. He would finally understand that his misguided 'Hegemony of The Voice and The Lyrics' is not shared by those who equally value The Drums and The Bass Guitar aka: the rhythmn section. "Lawmower parts"? This shows how superficial Morrissey's relationship to The Music always was. He is an intriguing 'minor poet/lyricist' and a melodious trained singer who composes excellent vocal melodies on completed compositions. Even in the days of The Smiths collective he seems to have been aloof and apart from the creative musical process, instead choosing to layer his melodies over largely completed compositions from Marr, Joyce and Rourke. He was never able to embrace The Band as a concept and thus ended up with decades of the same alienated dynamic playing out with other talented contributors such as Alain Whyte, Boz Boorer and Stephen Street. This 'revolving door' cast of collaborators has rarely had the same consistency and integrity as The Smiths collective: Morrissey is not James Brown and his attempts to corral the band into onstage billboards for his peevish gripes and grievances is in poor taste, even if it is those employees who are responsible for accepting undignified contract and employment conditions. In management speak, "not a team player". Therefore, other than for monetary gain, his ideological fixations on hegemonic status for vocals and lyrics would trash any attempt at a reunion.

I fully expect him to continue with this dismal framework, though I would be pleasantly surprised if differences were resolved and The Smiths collective re-convened for genuinely artistic purposes before one of them dies.

With every good wish
Yours, in jubilo.

 

[shridan whiteside]

I do not see it happening, ever, I am afraid. I saw The Smiths in concert, (The Queen Is Dead- 1986-Ivine Meadows, California. USA) at the perfect time I think. The band was so tight. Seamless. It didn't even look like work! Its hard to explain. But now in 2013? Lets say that all 4 members could not only put differences aside, but forget and just play. I seriously doubt it would sound the same at all. Strange I know, same 4 guys, same songs. But something tells me, none of their hearts would truly be in it. That's what I am afraid of. If, and I mean IF, the lads seriously mended fences, and rehearsed feverishly, could you imagine how great it would be? My God! If they did a 'one night only' gig, I do not think there is an arena on earth that would be big enough to hold everyone. They could literally fill Hyde Park. And the money! I shutter to think how much could be earned.
But anyone who saw The Smiths in the day, would undoubtedly compare the band that was, to the band that is, and I do not think it would be a fair comparison. That said, I could not stay away. Id buy a ticket.

 

[Playcat2000]

I do not see it happening, ever, I am afraid. I saw The Smiths in concert, (The Queen Is Dead- 1986-Ivine Meadows, California. USA) at the perfect time I think. The band was so tight. Seamless. It didn't even look like work! Its hard to explain. But now in 2013? Lets say that all 4 members could not only put differences aside, but forget and just play. I seriously doubt it would sound the same at all. Strange I know, same 4 guys, same songs. But something tells me, none of their hearts would truly be in it. That's what I am afraid of. If, and I mean IF, the lads seriously mended fences, and rehearsed feverishly, could you imagine how great it would be? My God! If they did a 'one night only' gig, I do not think there is an arena on earth that would be big enough to hold everyone. They could literally fill Hyde Park. And the money! I shutter to think how much could be earned.
But anyone who saw The Smiths in the day, would undoubtedly compare the band that was, to the band that is, and I do not think it would be a fair comparison. That said, I could not stay away. Id buy a ticket.

I agree with everything you said and I would still buy the ticket. I'd be crazy not too.

 

[Anonymous]

I do not see it happening, ever, I am afraid. I saw The Smiths in concert, (The Queen Is Dead- 1986-Ivine Meadows, California. USA) at the perfect time I think. The band was so tight. Seamless. It didn't even look like work! Its hard to explain. But now in 2013? Lets say that all 4 members could not only put differences aside, but forget and just play. I seriously doubt it would sound the same at all. Strange I know, same 4 guys, same songs. But something tells me, none of their hearts would truly be in it. That's what I am afraid of. If, and I mean IF, the lads seriously mended fences, and rehearsed feverishly, could you imagine how great it would be? My God! If they did a 'one night only' gig, I do not think there is an arena on earth that would be big enough to hold everyone. They could literally fill Hyde Park. And the money! I shutter to think how much could be earned.
But anyone who saw The Smiths in the day, would undoubtedly compare the band that was, to the band that is, and I do not think it would be a fair comparison. That said, I could not stay away. Id buy a ticket.

I never saw The Smiths live (sadly), but I'd almost be more interested in seeing Marr and Rourke together for a full set rather than the Morrissey/Marr reunion. I think with a few weeks, solid rehearsal - Morrissey, Marr, Rourke and Joyce (if permitted) would be as tight as ever.

Morrissey has gone on record saying that there's no existing relationship between the ex-Smiths, but that's because there's no need for him to be in semi-regular contact with them. Does he honestly think he'd keep in regular contact with his current drummer if he wasn't touring with him regularly?

The Smiths evidently broke up because of a break down in communications between Morrissey and Marr and that's what seems to be preventing any form of reconciliation - what a waste of a partnership...

 

[shridan whiteside]

I never saw The Smiths live (sadly), but I'd almost be more interested in seeing Marr and Rourke together for a full set rather than the Morrissey/Marr reunion. I think with a few weeks, solid rehearsal - Morrissey, Marr, Rourke and Joyce (if permitted) would be as tight as ever.

Morrissey has gone on record saying that there's no existing relationship between the ex-Smiths, but that's because there's no need for him to be in semi-regular contact with them. Does he honestly think he'd keep in regular contact with his current drummer if he wasn't touring with him regularly?

The Smiths evidently broke up because of a break down in communications between Morrissey and Marr and that's what seems to be preventing any form of reconciliation - what a waste of a partnership...

A waste of partnership indeed. I accept your thoughts on seeing a Marr/Rourke as opposed to a Morrissey/Marr reunion, but as you said, you never got to see The Smiths live. I believe, as I think most would as well, A Moz/Marr would be magic no matter what if they could just do the music, no ill will, no bullshit. But trust me on this one, if the four originals got together, and let bygones be bygones, put attitudes and egos on the shelf, and just did the business, a lot of people, you included my friend, would get at least a glimpse of what a cracking band they were to see live. Obviously, a lot of time has past, people get older and rust starts to harden so by no means would we be able to see The Smiths of '86 for instance, but I defy anyone to say they wouldn't kill to see it happen tomorrow. No matter the rust, age, or anything else. It would be, in my opinion, THE CONCERT! As long as they are all still alive, there is hope, (albeit the thinnest of slivers) but i'll take it. Just not going to hold my breath.

 

[Chip]

Meh.

The cancellations are pretty disastrous and may wreck Moz's career for the sole fact that no concert promoter might not touch him due to him being uninsurable/it being unlikely that he'll show.

That being said I beg to differ that everything he touched this year turned to shit. Before he got ill his concerts were mostly sold out and getting fairly good reviews, both from the people on this board and the local press of where ever he played. His first round of New York concerts back in October (technically 2012 I know, but part of the same tour) got fairly good press coverage in both The New York Times and Rolling Stone.

Yes, his setlist can be perplexing at times, his unrecorded new material is among his weaker stuff, his shows are too short, and Kristeen Young is not so good, but honestly if it wasn't for the cancellations I'd say he was dong pretty good. Back in October he sold out Radio City Music Hall and two nights at Terminal Five. No, it's not selling out stadiums, but that is 12,000 tickets in a four day period. I have no idea how much Morrissey actually takes away from each ticket, but even if it was only $10 for each audience member (and don't forget he sells a lot of merch at his shows) that's a $120,000 in a four day period. I'd happily take that. Remember Tony Visconti told Rolling Stone the reason Morrissey would not take any record deals was they all wanted a piece of the money he makes from touring. That makes me think he had a pretty decent thing going before the cancellation debacle.

The cancellations have really hurt his reputation and I am terrified that no promoter will ever touch him again, but it's really asinine to imply everything that happened this year was a complete disaster. He had a pretty successful tour going--before he cancelled it. Things aren't really quite as bad in Moz land as some on here would like to believe. If wasn't for the cancellations I suspect he could go on touring for sometime, pleasing his audiences, and bringing in a fairly decent living for himself doing what I presume it is that he loves. Most people wouldn't call that disastrous.

As for Johnny Marr, I really liked his solo album. Quite a bit. I regretfully did not get to see him when he came around to my area, but thanks to the naysayers on this board I found out he was still touring and coming back to my area. I just bought tickets. So I guess something positive came out of this lousy thread.

 

[BrummieBoy]

Meh.

The cancellations are pretty disastrous and may wreck Moz's career for the sole fact that no concert promoter might not touch him due to him being uninsurable/it being unlikely that he'll show.

That being said I beg to differ that everything he touched this year turned to shit. Before he got ill his concerts were mostly sold out and getting fairly good reviews, both from the people on this board and the local press of where ever he played. His first round of New York concerts back in October (technically 2012 I know, but part of the same tour) got fairly good press coverage in both The New York Times and Rolling Stone.

Yes, his setlist can be perplexing at times, his unrecorded new material is among his weaker stuff, his shows are too short, and Kristeen Young is not so good, but honestly if it wasn't for the cancellations I'd say he was dong pretty good. Back in October he sold out Radio City Music Hall and two nights at Terminal Five. No, it's not selling out stadiums, but that is 12,000 tickets in a four day period. I have no idea how much Morrissey actually takes away from each ticket, but even if it was only $10 for each audience member (and don't forget he sells a lot of merch at his shows) that's a $120,000 in a four day period. I'd happily take that. Remember Tony Visconti told Rolling Stone the reason Morrissey would not take any record deals was they all wanted a piece of the money he makes from touring. That makes me think he had a pretty decent thing going before the cancellation debacle.

The cancellations have really hurt his reputation and I am terrified that no promoter will ever touch him again, but it's really asinine to imply everything that happened this year was a complete disaster. He had a pretty successful tour going--before he cancelled it. Things aren't really quite as bad in Moz land as some on here would like to believe. If wasn't for the cancellations I suspect he could go on touring for sometime, pleasing his audiences, and bringing in a fairly decent living for himself doing what I presume it is that he loves. Most people wouldn't call that disastrous.

As for Johnny Marr, I really liked his solo album. Quite a bit. I regretfully did not get to see him when he came around to my area, but thanks to the naysayers on this board I found out he was still touring and coming back to my area. I just bought tickets. So I guess something positive came out of this lousy thread.

You seem to be saying that the commerical validity of his 'Never Ending Tour' and it's business plan/profitability model replacing 360 deals with corporations is an excuse for artistic torpor. I don't follow entertainers for that reason. I follow companies on the stock markets on that basis. It's hardly Art, is it?

regards.

 

[Chip]

You seem to be saying that the commerical validity of his 'Never Ending Tour' and it's business plan/profitability model replacing 360 deals with corporations is an excuse for artistic torpor. I don't follow entertainers for that reason. I follow companies on the stock markets on that basis. It's hardly Art, is it?

regards.

I said no such a thing. Because I don't believe Morrissey has reached an artistic "torpor." I don't think the only way for him to be an artist is to release a new album, I think live performances are an art unto themselves, albeit a very different one. There's a reason why people go to see local bands they've never heard of in sweaty basements or local bars. People like live music. And Morrissey seemed to be doing pretty well in terms of quality of his lives shows--at least in the eyes of the people who went to see him. And that matters more than the views of people on this site who claim not to have seen him for some time because his performances are so dreadful. And that's their right. Musical taste is largely subjective.

I don't really care about commercial viability and have stated endlessly on this board much the same thing as you have--it's no way to judge an artist. But certain people on this board have a fetish for commercial viability and waving it around as proof that Morrissey is over or this or that. I bring up facts that refute that.

 

[jaypayton]

people who say "no" to a reunion are full of shit because they would buy tickets IN A SECOND for a reunion....and if there is no reunion of the entire band, a Morrissey/Marr reunion would suffice

 

[Fawdy]

If there was a reunion at least it would end Johnny Marr's horrendous mangling of the Smiths songs he's recently been singing. It's been painful to watch.

 

[Uncleskinny]

people who say "no" to a reunion are full of shit because they would buy tickets IN A SECOND for a reunion....and if there is no reunion of the entire band, a Morrissey/Marr reunion would suffice

Indeed.

If there was a reunion at least it would end Johnny Marr's horrendous mangling of the Smiths songs he's recently been singing. It's been painful to watch.

Singing, you may have a point (I don't agree though - someone's got to sing them), but musically, his band hit the spot perfectly with the playing. Still, as always - de gustibus non est disputandum.

P.

 

[itsverycold]

people who say "no" to a reunion are full of shit because they would buy tickets IN A SECOND for a reunion....and if there is no reunion of the entire band, a Morrissey/Marr reunion would suffice

I don't think a reunion should happen. I don't see any reason for a reunion to happen. Of course i would buy a ticket if there was a reunion. I don't think that makes me full of shit.

I doh't think a morgan freeman/justin bieber sex tape should happen. I don't see any reason for a morgan freeman/justin bieber sex tape to happen. Of course i would watch if morgan freeman an justin bieber made a sex tape. I don't think that makes me full of shit.

 

[BrummieBoy]

I said no such a thing. Because I don't believe Morrissey has reached an artistic "torpor." I don't think the only way for him to be an artist is to release a new album, I think live performances are an art unto themselves, albeit a very different one. There's a reason why people go to see local bands they've never heard of in sweaty basements or local bars. People like live music. And Morrissey seemed to be doing pretty well in terms of quality of his lives shows--at least in the eyes of the people who went to see him. And that matters more than the views of people on this site who claim not to have seen him for some time because his performances are so dreadful. And that's their right. Musical taste is largely subjective.

I don't really care about commercial viability and have stated endlessly on this board much the same thing as you have--it's no way to judge an artist. But certain people on this board have a fetish for commercial viability and waving it around as proof that Morrissey is over or this or that. I bring up facts that refute that.

Thank you for those clarifications. I agree that live performance is an art unto itself. I just don't agree that Morrissey is currently a worthwhile exponent of it. But that may change. He may return inspired by a new energy, perhaps with some adjustments to his band.

There is no hierarchy of what 'matters'. There are merely diverging opinions. Some people would watch the same show every few weeks and not get bored for years. Others, like me, have tired of the stale regurgitation of mediocre songs and demos. And I've tired of Morrissey's 'conspiracy theory' about his record contract issues, media coverage, his 'political'/Trollitical views.

He made some wonderful music both within The Smiths and with other collaborators. I think he's wasting his talents like lots of other Boomer casualties. I also think he's an entirely conservative entertainer now. But I don't expect anyone else to agree with me. It's not really about Morrissey, more about a general crisis in contemporary culture where people adopt 'radical chic' performers as some badge of snobbish superiority when there's absolutely no difference between their choices and others they revile as inauthentic. Musical taste is subjective, which makes "Kid's A Looker" an especially crap idea. There's no real difference between auditioning for the X-Factor and for the NME/John Peel back in the day. There are people who have the power to impose their subjective critical analysis on others, whether that's Simon Cowell or Paul Morley. Morrissey has no such power, but expects to be given it. Oh, and Morrissey very clearly has a 'fetish for commercial viability', hence his profound sulk about not being offered a heavy-duty corporate deal to meet his expectations of a large studio budget and marketing/promotional spend. He resents the commercial success of other performers as his entitlement agenda tells him that he should have become a megastar, rather than an almost-famous cult niche. Nothing wrong with being a cult performer with a loyal, if somewhat demented, fanbase. But it's not enough for Morrissey, he really thinks he deserves the same attention as Bieber or One Direction. Why?

regards.

regards.

 

[Alchemist]

I don't think anyone in their right mind would pass up a chance to see the band if they did tour as a whole. However, I would still prefer to keep the memory of the band as they were, rather than have an opportunity to see them as they weren't...