Disgraceful poll on main page

[HIM]

[...] Now, on the other hand, HIM has his issues where he gets upset and this is one of them. But he's on another thread suggesting that someone hang themself, so really he's not the one to make these sorts of pronouncements about what is acceptable and who looks like an arsehole.

hallo dave. i disagree with you.

for clarity, the posts to which you're referring are here and here.

Yes, HIM, you were provoked. However, we probably all know someone that has committed suicide, maybe even a family member, and for you to suggest someone on an Internet forum commit suicide because they don't like you is beneath you.

fairly obviously, dave, my suggestion of options/methods was as sincere as the poster's intention to actually commit suicide. and yes, you're right, we probably do all know, or have been related to, somebody that has committed suicide. (that might, to some extent, explain why guidance on the reverence with which the subject should be regarded isn't necessary.)

 

[Dave]

I dont think its ignorance. i think its more of being immune, or numb to the whole "retard" thing. whether it be in words or pictures. like I said before, in the states, "retard" is used so loosely, its not even offensive anymore. ok, with the picture, i could see how some people couldve been offended, but I think its important for everyone to realize how the word is used in America. I think if Buzzetta just used the word "retard" this wouldnt even be an issue. I dont think I, or Buzzetta, or anyone else who has defended him thinks its funny or cool to make fun of handicapped people. but culturally, in our country, in this day and age, all things "retard" is just not offensive. Buzzetta is a very upstanding young man, I know he meant no harm.

i dont mean to continue an argument. just wanted to explain as best I could.

Immune is a good way to say it, but that's sort of like saying insensitive.

I'm not trying to argue either but this idea that it's a cultural thing is wrong. I understand that some words that are offensive to some people are still used a lot by other people, but it's mostly in an ignorant or uncaring way. If it's pointed out to you that it is offensive and you keep doing it, you're saying that you don't care.

As long as you aren't breaking the law or the board rules, whichever applies, you have the right not to care. So say you don't care. That's just my opinion.

hallo dave. i disagree with you.

for clarity, the posts to which you're referring are here and here.



fairly obviously, dave, my suggestion of options/methods was as sincere as the poster's intention to actually commit suicide. and yes, you're right, we probably do all know, or have been related to, somebody that has committed suicide. (that might, to some extent, explain why guidance on the reverence with which the subject should be regarded isn't necessary.)

I quit that original thread, where it all began, early on when the person made a remark to someone else, so I'm not sure how it got to where it did, and it doesn't matter. I'm not suggesting that your remark was intended to cause the person harm. I do think it's probably equally as insensitive in any culture though, and equally offensive.

 

[HIM]

[...] I'm not suggesting that your remark was intended to cause the person harm. I do think it's probably equally as insensitive in any culture though, and equally offensive.

i'm sorry, dave, if this is one of your issues where you get upset. i think, though, that possibly greater offence is caused, and greater insensitivity shown, by somebody trivialising the subject of suicide and suicidal ideation, as ways of getting oneself noticed and perceived as a Tortured Artist on an internet forum.

 

[Dave]

I'm sorry. When I said you have your issues I can see where that sounded patronizing. No, this is not one of my pet issues. If it was I would not discuss it on this board.

 

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

it has though. the word along with the picture MIGHT have been a bit much.

"MIGHT" have been "a bit much"? So you think it "MIGHT" be perfectly fine to make fun of a kid with Down Syndrome like that? Do you really think that?

but the word itself is not even RELATED to handicapped people anymore.

So it was just a coincidence that the poster calling someone a "retard" used a picture of a kid with Down Syndrome?

the word retarded is on the same line as the word "stupid" here in the states.

That is completely wrong, as further discussed in my prior post.

 

[Theo]

The hypocritical thing about everyone's beef with you is that if someone made a very similar graphic with Bush instead of a Down's kid, everybody would think that it was the funniest thing since fart jokes.

In fact, Democrats did use that very graphic with Bush's head during the Bush vs Kerry campaign.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-gop/1243771/posts

October 12, 2004 – Democrats in a race for a state House seat in District 82, are circulating a flyer that shows a retarded child with President Bush’s face running in a track race. The headline says: “Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics: Even If You Win, You’re Still Retarded.”

The flyer is being distributed by Democrat Craig Fitzhugh. His opponent, Dave Dahl has issued a call to Fitzhugh to stop distributing the flyer.

More here: http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=1951

Rep. Fitzhugh’s office, which is shared by the Kerry-Edwards campaign, has been distributing a flyer showing a Special Olympics child with President Bush’s face superimposed on the head of the disabled youngster. The headline reads: “Voting for Bush Is Like Running In The Special Olympics: Even If You Win, You’re Still Retarded.”

The party of compassion, etc....

 

[Theo]

"Retard" is derived from "mentally retarded," and as you said has frequently been used as slang to insult people. However common its usage, I think it's wrong to insult people by reference to those that have learning or other disabilities, because of the necessary implication that such people are the reference point for scorn and what you wouldn't want to be. It may be commonly used such that people don't think about what they're saying, but I think the sting remains for the people who are the reference point for the insult and for those that know and love them.

You guys gotta lighten up about using the word "retard." I don't think that's a big deal at all. I don't think it's any different than calling someone "nuts" (or any of the other many variations of slang terms for people with mental illnesses) for some trivial reason.

In any event, as TMYEM said, the suggestion that it's just a word that through common usage has come to mean something else becomes moot when you put a picture of a disadvantaged kid running a special olympics-type race and make him the focal point of the joke. It also should point out what people are really saying when they call someone "retard," and why those people should consider the use of another term.

But I agree that using that pic of the Special Olympics kid is harder to defend. That pic has been around the internet for years and I'll admit that it has made me laugh, so I can't get on too much of a high horse.
But I know it's bad that I laugh and I wouldn't post that pic myself. That kid is immortalized on the internet in a way that mocks him for having Down Syndrome.

What do you guys think about all the mothers who are aborting Down syndrome babies?

NYTimes:

About 90 percent of pregnant women who are given a Down syndrome diagnosis have chosen to have an abortion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/u...mp;ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink


Now, there are some people who don't wish to have the prenatal tests because they wanna accept what "God" has given them. But 90% of people who have these tests and find out their baby will have Down Syndrome abort the fetus.

Convinced that more couples would choose to continue their pregnancies if they better appreciated what it meant to raise a child with Down syndrome, a growing group of parents is seeking to insert their own positive perspectives into a decision often dominated by daunting medical statistics and doctors who feel obligated to describe the difficulties of life with a disabled child.

They are pressing obstetricians to send them couples who have been given a prenatal diagnosis and inviting prospective parents into their homes to meet their children. In Massachusetts, for example, volunteers in a “first call” network linking veteran parents to new ones are now offering support to couples deciding whether to continue a pregnancy.

The parent evangelists are driven by a deep-seated fear for their children’s well-being in a world where there are fewer people like them. But as prenatal tests become available for a range of other perceived genetic imperfections, they may also be heralding a broader cultural skirmish over where to draw the line between preventing disability and accepting human diversity.

***

A dwindling Down syndrome population, which now stands at about 350,000, could mean less institutional support and reduced funds for medical research. It could also mean a lonelier world for those who remain.

If people are so accepting of human diversity, why are they aborting their Down Syndrome babies in such large numbers? This raises interesting moral questions related to abortion as prenatal testing becomes more advanced. What "imperfections" are morally acceptable to abort a fetus over? What if they come up with a test that shows your baby will be gay. Will there be a lot of couples who consider themselves pro-gay-rights and all that end up quietly aborting their gay fetuses they way so many couples are aborting their Down Syndrome fetuses?

 

[Buzzetta]

As for trying to dig myself out of a hole... and it will be the final comment I will make (well not until the next time...) I do not view it the way that those who are offended view it. That's it. End of story. You believe that it is offensive I believe that you are making a big deal out of nothing. I am not going to get you to budge and I can tell you that you are not going to change my mind.

It is an internet forum people...

A bid you an adios.

 

[Dave]

 

[PapaJack]

You guys gotta lighten up about using the word "retard." I don't think that's a big deal at all. I don't think it's any different than calling someone "nuts" (or any of the other many variations of slang terms for people with mental illnesses) for some trivial reason.

This thread is NUTS!!

HAHAHA! Sorry...hopefully this post doesn't start a debate on whether the use of terms like nuts and images of knife-wielding squirrels is in fact degrading to the psychologically challenged and emotionally unbalanced.

 

[Im Still Ill]

fairly obviously, dave, my suggestion of options/methods was as sincere as the poster's intention to actually commit suicide. and yes, you're right, we probably do all know, or have been related to, somebody that has committed suicide. (that might, to some extent, explain why guidance on the reverence with which the subject should be regarded isn't necessary.)

I've just been directed to this thread and at first i was (surprise suprise) p****d off!

When you mentioned "attention seeking" i thought what a w*****r, then when i thought about it, i realised i am attention seeking. No-one in my family know how i feel. I'd never tell them so i suppose sub-consciously i am attention seeking.

Suicidal thoughts do plague my life. I doubt i'd ever act on them but don't make yourself feel better by denying i'm sincere!

 

[Explosive Kegs]

What the fcuk has the above 3 and a half pages got to do with my orignal post to this thread?
I go on vacation for a few days and my post gets hyjacked by a bunch of retards and moved into off topic, the content of which being neatly brushed under the carpet forever..

 

[Not Right in the Head]

What the fcuk has the above 3 and a half pages got to do with my orignal post to this thread?
I go on vacation for a few days and my post gets hyjacked by a bunch of retards and moved into off topic, the content of which being neatly brushed under the carpet forever..

And that just ties it all together, doesn't it? Well played.

 

[Buzzetta]

And that just ties it all together, doesn't it? Well played.

That is the funniest shit I have seen today.... for once "lol" really was a laugh out loud in reference to what you wrote before you wrote it.

 

[Not Right in the Head]

That is the funniest shit I have seen today.... for once "lol" really was a laugh out loud in reference to what you wrote before you wrote it.

You mean you knew what I was going to say before you'd even read it?

 

[Buzzetta]

Absolutely... I saw the thread and noticed from the list that you were the last person to post on it. As I read the first new post I knew what your post would automatically be. Why? It's what I would have posted.

 

[Not Right in the Head]

Absolutely... I saw the thread and noticed from the list that you were the last person to post on it. As I read the first new post I knew what your post would automatically be. Why? It's what I would have posted.

Looks like I need to hire some new comedy writers!