vegetarianism questions

J

just curious

Guest
hi, there are just a few questions i'd like answered if anybody would care to oblige.

i was having a conversation about vegetarians the other day with a workmate, and i said that a few of my friends were vegetarians, on moral principles- they dont like the idea of eating dead animals, and also the way in which these animals are killed. but he made a very good point- if people are so against the way in which these animals are killed (eg morrissey), why don't they turn vegan? why do they wear leather and other products which animals are killed for? (i know moz has previously said that he likes yoghurt and it's unfortunate that he likes dairy products blah blah blah)

i'm not criticising moz because i love him, but i couldn't give an answer to my workmate. it seems a bit hypocritical and i was just wondering if anyone here could give a straight answer to that question?

also, do vegetarians eat eggs?

cheers!
 
Animals AREN'T culled for leather! They are for MEAT -> FOOD...

Vegetarians do eat eggs....Vegans DON'T!

That said, I know some dumb people who claim to be vegetarian but eat fish - Vegetarians don't eat ANY animals killed for their consumption.

I hope that helps.



> hi, there are just a few questions i'd like answered if anybody would care
> to oblige.

> i was having a conversation about vegetarians the other day with a
> workmate, and i said that a few of my friends were vegetarians, on moral
> principles- they dont like the idea of eating dead animals, and also the
> way in which these animals are killed. but he made a very good point- if
> people are so against the way in which these animals are killed (eg
> morrissey), why don't they turn vegan? why do they wear leather and other
> products which animals are killed for? (i know moz has previously said
> that he likes yoghurt and it's unfortunate that he likes dairy products
> blah blah blah)

> i'm not criticising moz because i love him, but i couldn't give an answer
> to my workmate. it seems a bit hypocritical and i was just wondering if
> anyone here could give a straight answer to that question?

> also, do vegetarians eat eggs?

> cheers!
 
Re: vegetarianism answers

I think it comes down to what an individual decides is acceptable? Some people don't eat meat because of health reasons, others don't eat meat because of cruelty. Some don't consider fish to be meat(?) so they eat fish, but not other meat. Some people will eat the lower forms of fish: squid etc, because they are considered quite basic forms of life which react only on intinct from a nerve stem, they don't really have a brain, and aren't much more clever than a plant. Others are vegans.
Once you make a decision as to what you can accept and live with, you start to question other animal products in your life: gelatin capsules, candy with dies made from insects, vitamin supplements, prescription medications, leather coats, leather seats, shoes, belts, the bullhorns you bought 20 years ago at a flea market hanging in your bedroom, the funny looking lamp in the corner from the 50s which is made of deer feet, your favorite old engineer boots.
There are a lot of decisions to be made which seem contradictory, but the bottom line is that at least you are doing SOMETHING when true alternatives exist.
Personally, I don't like the carnivorous taste of any flesh, it's a cruel taste. I do eat eggs. I buy free-range eggs for home, and I try to limit the eggs I eat when out. I eat milk products, I try to buy cheese from farms in Wisconsin where the animals are treated with respect. I don't like the taste of milk. I gave away my leather coats, but I wear leather shoes and belts. I wouldn't buy a new car with leather seats, but I bought a used car with leather seats, and hate them, but it was the car that I wanted and could afford. I still have the bull horns and the deer feet lamp, as well as several old bullfighter paintings. For now, they are a constant reminder of the beauty of animals, as well as my past of growing up in a farming community of 4000 where you had no choice but to eat meat, they keep me in check with my choices now and my past life as a carnivore. I feed my 2 dogs meat, they get Steve's Real food www.stevesrealfood.com which is raw meat mixed with vegetables and grains, the dogs are carnivores, and I don't make a vegetarian choice for them.

So, this may not be the straight answer you're looking for, but I hope it's a start.

> hi, there are just a few questions i'd like answered if anybody would care
> to oblige.

> i was having a conversation about vegetarians the other day with a
> workmate, and i said that a few of my friends were vegetarians, on moral
> principles- they dont like the idea of eating dead animals, and also the
> way in which these animals are killed. but he made a very good point- if
> people are so against the way in which these animals are killed (eg
> morrissey), why don't they turn vegan? why do they wear leather and other
> products which animals are killed for? (i know moz has previously said
> that he likes yoghurt and it's unfortunate that he likes dairy products
> blah blah blah)

> i'm not criticising moz because i love him, but i couldn't give an answer
> to my workmate. it seems a bit hypocritical and i was just wondering if
> anyone here could give a straight answer to that question?

> also, do vegetarians eat eggs?

> cheers!
 
Re: Morrissey doesn't claim to be vegan

thanks greg's barrier buddy- that was a help.

lalo- i know that moz doesn't claim to be vegan. where did i say he did?

and 'meat is murder'- where do you suggest that leather comes from, then?
 
Re: Morrissey doesn't claim to be vegan

i know you didn't ask me, but i may be able to clear some stuff up. you never said moz was vegan but you noted that your friend thought it was sort of hypocritical to eat eggs but not meat. i think LALO was just saying that moz never said he was vegan and thus he is not hypocritical. the same would apply to other people in the same situation. the rules are the same for other people as they are for moz.

and i'm sure meat is murder knows leather comes from animals, as he doesnt strike me as retarded, but what he is saying is that normally, the skins are taken from animals that are already being killed for meat. that is, unless it's very very high quality leather in which case they might breed the animals for their skins. in such a case, im sure the carcasses would be made into dogfood or something.

lovely.

i've only been a vegetarian for 2 months, but it just keeps getting easier. that being said, i do eat eggs and dairy because, even though i dislike the way chickens and dairy cows are treated, i like my eggs and i like my cheese, ice cream, and chocolate. plus, as a university student on a meal plan, it's a bit difficult to restrict my diet so heavily. i also don't wear leather, except for a couple pieces i bought a long time ago (a wristwatch and a pair of doc martens). i figure that my not wearing them won't bring the animals back to life, so i may as well. funny logic, but it works for me. (plus, those items cost me a pretty penny at a time when i was pretty poor.)

anyway, sorry to butt in!
 
eggs are murder

> Animals AREN'T culled for leather! They are for MEAT -> FOOD...

> Vegetarians do eat eggs....Vegans DON'T!

> That said, I know some dumb people who claim to be vegetarian but eat fish
> - Vegetarians don't eat ANY animals killed for their consumption.

> I hope that helps.

>

An argument can be made that eating fish is more ethical than eating eggs.
If the reason you're vegetarian is to help reduce suffering and torture, PETA considers the treatment of laying hens the worst of all. LAying hens suffer every moment of their lives. With fish, however, one could argue (I only say this for the sake of argument; I don't eat fish) that fish are swimming free up until the point of capture, and fish don't have the same feeling as chickens when you kill them.

Anyway, I really don't see how vegetarians who are vegetarian *because of animal torture* (in contrast with enhacing their own health as the main motivation) can make excuses for eggs as something different. It's fine with me if people eat eggs. I think what's important is the general stance against animal torture more than whether people are pure, and it's really hard to figure out how far to take it in your own life (I'm still trying to figure it out in my own life). However, I have to protest if someone is going to present the egg industry as somehow "good" and "acceptable" compared with the meat industry. It seems to me it is the same.
 
Re: Morrissey doesn't claim to be vegan

> i've only been a vegetarian for 2 months, but it just keeps getting
> easier. that being said, i do eat eggs and dairy because, even though i
> dislike the way chickens and dairy cows are treated, i like my eggs and i
> like my cheese, ice cream, and chocolate. plus, as a university student on
> a meal plan, it's a bit difficult to restrict my diet so heavily. i also
> don't wear leather, except for a couple pieces i bought a long time ago (a
> wristwatch and a pair of doc martens). i figure that my not wearing them
> won't bring the animals back to life, so i may as well. funny logic, but
> it works for me. (plus, those items cost me a pretty penny at a time when
> i was pretty poor.)

The way to do it is to stockpile a lifetime's supply of leather shoes right before you swear you'll never buy 'em again. = )
 
Re: eggs are murder

> An argument can be made that eating fish is more ethical than eating eggs.
> If the reason you're vegetarian is to help reduce suffering and torture,
> PETA considers the treatment of laying hens the worst of all. LAying hens
> suffer every moment of their lives. With fish, however, one could argue (I
> only say this for the sake of argument; I don't eat fish) that fish are
> swimming free up until the point of capture, and fish don't have the same
> feeling as chickens when you kill them.

FREE RANGE.

eggs without the guilt.

always watchout for mayonnaise.
 
Re: Alive and well

> i know you didn't ask me, but i may be able to clear some stuff up. you
> never said moz was vegan but you noted that your friend thought it was
> sort of hypocritical to eat eggs but not meat. i think LALO was just
> saying that moz never said he was vegan and thus he is not hypocritical.
> the same would apply to other people in the same situation. the rules are
> the same for other people as they are for moz.

> and i'm sure meat is murder knows leather comes from animals, as he doesnt
> strike me as retarded, but what he is saying is that normally, the skins
> are taken from animals that are already being killed for meat. that is,
> unless it's very very high quality leather in which case they might breed
> the animals for their skins. in such a case, im sure the carcasses would
> be made into dogfood or something.

> lovely.

> i've only been a vegetarian for 2 months, but it just keeps getting
> easier. that being said, i do eat eggs and dairy because, even though i
> dislike the way chickens and dairy cows are treated, i like my eggs and i
> like my cheese, ice cream, and chocolate. plus, as a university student on
> a meal plan, it's a bit difficult to restrict my diet so heavily. i also
> don't wear leather, except for a couple pieces i bought a long time ago (a
> wristwatch and a pair of doc martens). i figure that my not wearing them
> won't bring the animals back to life, so i may as well. funny logic, but
> it works for me. (plus, those items cost me a pretty penny at a time when
> i was pretty poor.)

> anyway, sorry to butt in!

I am celebrating 13 years of vegetarianism! It hasn't always been easy, but I am alive and well. It does take a lot of label reading to stay on the straight and narrow.
 
Re: Alive and well

i know what you mean. i accidentally consumed chicken broth in a cup o noodles soon after becoming a veggie (it was labelled vegetable flavour bastards!).

and i still need to look up the contents of teriyaki sauce. luckily, the last time i ate japanese, they put it on the side of my veggie bowl. i tasted it and i swear, it has chicken in it, so into the garbage it went! that took a lot of willpower because prior to going veggie, teriyaki anything was my favourite food.
 
Actually, much of the fish (in the US anyway) is farmed.

So the "free range" argument doesn't, er, well, hold water Ü.
Also, doesn't matter much how an animal lives if it is killed expressly for you to eat it. Death for no reason is...?

There are essentially 4 types of vegetarians. Lacto-vegetarians eat no meat but drink milk and eat cheese, yougurt, etc. Ovo-vegetarians eat no meat but eat eggs. Ovo-lactos eat dairy and eggs. Strict veggies eat no animal products.

The line between strict vegetarian and vegan is a little blurry. The people who coined the term "vegan" (vegan society) didn't really make the modern distinctions that we think of now when we hear the term "vegan". They didn't oppose honey, beer, or yeast, for example.

I was a lacto-vegetarian for six years beginning August 2001. I've been vegan since then. I do eat yeast and honey. And I brew my own beer
 
Re: eggs are murder

> FREE RANGE.

> eggs without the guilt.

> always watchout for mayonnaise.

In a previous thread I posted a link to an article claiming that the "free range" label in America is a crock.

What to believe?
 
Re: Actually, much of the fish (in the US anyway) is farmed.

> So the "free range" argument doesn't, er, well, hold water Ü.
> Also, doesn't matter much how an animal lives if it is killed expressly
> for you to eat it. Death for no reason is...?

I'm far more bothered by the industries that mass torture animals for their entire lives than I am by the idea of killing an animal for food.
 
Re: Morrissey doesn't claim to be vegan

> i know you didn't ask me, but i may be able to clear some stuff up. you
> never said moz was vegan but you noted that your friend thought it was
> sort of hypocritical to eat eggs but not meat. i think LALO was just
> saying that moz never said he was vegan and thus he is not hypocritical.
> the same would apply to other people in the same situation. the rules are
> the same for other people as they are for moz.

> and i'm sure meat is murder knows leather comes from animals, as he doesnt
> strike me as retarded, but what he is saying is that normally, the skins
> are taken from animals that are already being killed for meat. that is,
> unless it's very very high quality leather in which case they might breed
> the animals for their skins. in such a case, im sure the carcasses would
> be made into dogfood or something.

> lovely.

> i've only been a vegetarian for 2 months, but it just keeps getting
> easier. that being said, i do eat eggs and dairy because, even though i
> dislike the way chickens and dairy cows are treated, i like my eggs and i
> like my cheese, ice cream, and chocolate. plus, as a university student on
> a meal plan, it's a bit difficult to restrict my diet so heavily. i also
> don't wear leather, except for a couple pieces i bought a long time ago (a
> wristwatch and a pair of doc martens). i figure that my not wearing them
> won't bring the animals back to life, so i may as well. funny logic, but
> it works for me. (plus, those items cost me a pretty penny at a time when
> i was pretty poor.)

> anyway, sorry to butt in!

Hey Mindy. Regarding your logic on wearing leather shoes since not wearing them won't bring the animal back to life anyway; well is that not the same for meat? I mean, the animal is already dead, the meat is there, why let the animal die in vain by wasteing the flesh it has died for?
 
Re: Morrissey doesn't claim to be vegan

there's more than enough people to eat the meat for me! and i stopped buying leather a long time ago. yeah, maybe i should get rid of the leather i do own in order to set a good example, but it's not obvious that the watch is leather since it's dyed pink and i only wear the docs occasionally. i see your point though. this is a very touchy subject. i mean, it's really a personal choice. i haven't exactly figured out where i stand on all the issues yet.

> Hey Mindy. Regarding your logic on wearing leather shoes since not wearing
> them won't bring the animal back to life anyway; well is that not the same
> for meat? I mean, the animal is already dead, the meat is there, why let
> the animal die in vain by wasteing the flesh it has died for?
 
Re: Morrissey doesn't claim to be vegan

> there's more than enough people to eat the meat for me! and i stopped
> buying leather a long time ago. yeah, maybe i should get rid of the
> leather i do own in order to set a good example, but it's not obvious that
> the watch is leather since it's dyed pink and i only wear the docs
> occasionally. i see your point though. this is a very touchy subject. i
> mean, it's really a personal choice. i haven't exactly figured out where i
> stand on all the issues yet.

That's cool that you're still feeling your way through what vegetarianism means to you. I just find it ironic that vegans/vegetarians can rationalize wearing animal products, but not eating them. As if animal products in the name of fashion is do-able but god forbid they consume the animal which was raised and bred solely for that reason.
 
Re: Morrissey doesn't claim to be vegan

oh, i don't think it's right to kill animals for fashion at all! i've always been anti-fur (although i'm not militant; i don't believe in abusing other people's property in the name of my personal beliefs - that only hurts the cause in the long run) and i've never really liked leather all that much either. it's really just up to the individual to make a value judgment on whether or not they wish to keep fur and leather items they purchased prior to making their lifestyle change.

> That's cool that you're still feeling your way through what vegetarianism
> means to you. I just find it ironic that vegans/vegetarians can
> rationalize wearing animal products, but not eating them. As if animal
> products in the name of fashion is do-able but god forbid they consume the
> animal which was raised and bred solely for that reason.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

H
Questions
Replies
4
Views
874
Weiß
W
F
Tour Date Questions
Replies
0
Views
831
Fingal
F
G
STOP ASKING THESE QUESTIONS!
Replies
7
Views
728
Jamie
J
W
Unanswerable (?) questions about The Smiths.
2
Replies
38
Views
4K
woody
W
T
Vegetarianism: It's Harder Than You Think
Replies
4
Views
1K
Tingle
T
Back
Top Bottom