Dazza
Member
Morning - as we know the Smiths signed to Rough Trade after Johnny went down there in person with demos and demanded that Geoff Travis listen to them (that's how the story goes anyway). But before that there's a story to the effect of:- the Smiths tried to sign with Factory/could have signed with them.
Tony Wilson (RIP) told a story in a documentary once about meeting Morrissey (I think it was at M's home but will be corrected) and he intimated that, to all intents and purposes, he thought Morrissey was something of a dreamer at the time who would never 'make it' in popular music.
There's also the line at the end of 24 hour party people where Tony's at the end of his life and they're going through the inventory at the gates of heaven "you know you should have signed the Smiths - but you were right about Mick Hucknall!!".
Added into this is the less than complimentary things Morrissey said about Wilson as a person (it appeared to be mutual) and he didn't seem overly keen on Factory or their main acts either - the Smiths did play the Hacienda a couple of times if I'm right, did that stop for a reason?
He appeared to be less than keen on the whole 'Madchester' thing.
So I suppose this comes down to a few things:-
1) who turned who down? did the Smiths refuse an offer from Factory or did AH Wilson genuinely have no interest in signing them?
2) did the Smiths ever want to be on Factory anyway, or were Rough Trade always their first choice?
3) if they ever HAD signed to them (and been on the same label as New Order no less) how might that have gone?
Off the top of my head, the Smiths on Factory would never have worked or lasted for several reasons:-
1) it's hard to imagine Morrissey handing over the artwork/sleeve design of his band's work to Peter Savile, who was Factory's in-house guy for that sort of thing. The same could be said of Factory's preferred producers.
2) they were hardly known for bending over backwards to promote their bands, get them exposure, radio play etc. The Smiths (and Moz in particular) had enough gripes with Rough Trade over that sort of thing and Factory were even worse.
3) the people running the label seemed to see it as a sort of 'public service' and many of them had little to no business sense - poor decision making ultimately led to the label's demise in the early 1990s. They were notoriously bad with money.
4) having two enormous bands like that on an independent label is a source of friction - both are going to want preferential treatment while believing that the other is getting precisely that. Didn't the Fall leave Rough Trade over a similar issue?
5) what also needs to be remembered is that New Order's hard-earned money (from both record sales and touring) was propping up the black hole/sacred cow known as the Hacienda for several years. Bernard was the first to really notice this and kick off about it - and I don't blame him for resenting the hit to his living standards that was done in the name of a club that was leaking money. Now you can ask why they didn't ask further questions from the outset and I'm sure Morrissey/Marr would have done - they certainly wouldn't have put up with a scenario where they were touring their backsides off and seeing none of the proceeds.
6) Morrissey in particular couldn't stand 'Madchester' and Factory were a massive part of that.
7) given the Wilson-Morrissey relationship that went on to exist you can't see that going on for too long without going up in a ball of flames.
Thoughts appreciated as always - thanks...
Tony Wilson (RIP) told a story in a documentary once about meeting Morrissey (I think it was at M's home but will be corrected) and he intimated that, to all intents and purposes, he thought Morrissey was something of a dreamer at the time who would never 'make it' in popular music.
There's also the line at the end of 24 hour party people where Tony's at the end of his life and they're going through the inventory at the gates of heaven "you know you should have signed the Smiths - but you were right about Mick Hucknall!!".
Added into this is the less than complimentary things Morrissey said about Wilson as a person (it appeared to be mutual) and he didn't seem overly keen on Factory or their main acts either - the Smiths did play the Hacienda a couple of times if I'm right, did that stop for a reason?
He appeared to be less than keen on the whole 'Madchester' thing.
So I suppose this comes down to a few things:-
1) who turned who down? did the Smiths refuse an offer from Factory or did AH Wilson genuinely have no interest in signing them?
2) did the Smiths ever want to be on Factory anyway, or were Rough Trade always their first choice?
3) if they ever HAD signed to them (and been on the same label as New Order no less) how might that have gone?
Off the top of my head, the Smiths on Factory would never have worked or lasted for several reasons:-
1) it's hard to imagine Morrissey handing over the artwork/sleeve design of his band's work to Peter Savile, who was Factory's in-house guy for that sort of thing. The same could be said of Factory's preferred producers.
2) they were hardly known for bending over backwards to promote their bands, get them exposure, radio play etc. The Smiths (and Moz in particular) had enough gripes with Rough Trade over that sort of thing and Factory were even worse.
3) the people running the label seemed to see it as a sort of 'public service' and many of them had little to no business sense - poor decision making ultimately led to the label's demise in the early 1990s. They were notoriously bad with money.
4) having two enormous bands like that on an independent label is a source of friction - both are going to want preferential treatment while believing that the other is getting precisely that. Didn't the Fall leave Rough Trade over a similar issue?
5) what also needs to be remembered is that New Order's hard-earned money (from both record sales and touring) was propping up the black hole/sacred cow known as the Hacienda for several years. Bernard was the first to really notice this and kick off about it - and I don't blame him for resenting the hit to his living standards that was done in the name of a club that was leaking money. Now you can ask why they didn't ask further questions from the outset and I'm sure Morrissey/Marr would have done - they certainly wouldn't have put up with a scenario where they were touring their backsides off and seeing none of the proceeds.
6) Morrissey in particular couldn't stand 'Madchester' and Factory were a massive part of that.
7) given the Wilson-Morrissey relationship that went on to exist you can't see that going on for too long without going up in a ball of flames.
Thoughts appreciated as always - thanks...