good news for the Castro fans

The U.S. has lately been more of an imperialist system than a capitalist one. Most people wouldn't deny that the folks running the place take what they want regardless of what a significant portion of the citizens believe - elections, oil rich middle eastern states, rich federal contracts, oil drilling rights are all good examples. The good news is that imperialism doesn't really have much staying power, so sooner or later the rest of the world will get a break.

As for communism in Cuba, you can understand it better if you see it in terms of an idealistic experiment. Scholars have called communism the world's last great religious movement, so think about it that way. It's not exactly rational. There are some people in Cuba who believe in the Revolution; they're mostly Black because pre-Castro their lives were even worse, if you can imagine.

The people marching in the streets in Miami are being whipped up by exile radio which is controlled by a few really well connected wealthy exiles. Bush's brother is their boy, and lest anyone forgot he's currently the governor of Florida. These are the ones who lobbied to have the embargo strengthened. Now if someone wants to bring a package of asprin, sewing notions and family photos to their grandmother they can only do it once every three years. This elite cadre are biding their time until they lead the post-communism land grab. The result will be a Havana overrun by Marriot, McDonalds, and MTV. Maybe even DisneyMundo. Somehow I doubt their plans include universal healthcare. So, the poor and miserable will remain poor and miserable, only in the US version of the future they'll all be wearing nametags and asking if you want fritas with that.
 
Hmmm and what does the American govt do to Cubans


The FBI agent who arrested the Five was a ‘consultant’ in Guantánamo

BY JEAN-GUY ALLARD

HECTOR Pesquera, head of the Miami FBI who arrested the five Cuban anti-terrorist combatants who infiltrated Florida’s criminal groups acting against the island, advised the military heading the interrogations on the Guantánamo base.

After being converted into “spies,” the Five were locked in punishment cells for 17 months and family visits were strictly limited. Later they were placed in five distinct penitentiaries around the country.

Pesquera’s activities on Guantánamo have been revealed by various FBI documents declassified at the request of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which is investigating cases of torture on the base located on land illegally occupied by the United States in eastern Cuba.

The UN Human Rights Committee has just demanded the immediate closure of all the detention centers used in the supposed War on Terror. It has called for investigation into the cases of suspicious death, torture, and cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment committed in those centers, including the one in Guantánamo.

Pesquera’s name is mentioned in two messages marked “SECRET” that have many parts blacked out. It took three years to obtain the texts using the Freedom of Information Act, legislation that allows access to documents but which also allows its authors to cross out information considered “sensitive.”

The physical presence of Pesquera in Guantánamo on at least one occasion in 2002 has been confirmed. Everything indicates that he was also there in 2003.

The first mention of the former Miami FBI chief appeared in a May 2002 memorandum—classified as “DETAINEES-1162B— addressed to him and agents Kenneth Sensor and Thomas P. Lewis II, from the office of the Head of the FBI; Andrew G. Arena, from the anti-terrorist section; and Cassandra M. Chandler, from the “training” department.

Another document dated May 30, 2003 —classified as “DETAINEES- 1261B - 1267B”— also mentions “Special Agent in Charge” Hector M. Pesquera. The message was sent by the—Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU)—of the Defense Department to Pesquera and another person whose name is illegible.

Months ago human rights monitors stated that prisoners on the U.S. military base in Guantánamo are still the victims of torture and mistreatment.

PESQUERA HAS A LOT OF “EXPERIENCE”

It is interesting that Pesquera was selected to advise the authorities of the interrogation camp, apparently due to his reputation and ample experience in the development of interrogation techniques.

In their exposés of the abuses suffered by the prisoners in the U.S. concentration camp, human rights activists described ones to which René González, Gerardo Hernández, Antonio Guerrero, Ramón Labañino and Fernando González were subjected to throughout the almost eight years of their incarceration.

A chronology of their detention demonstrates this in no uncertain terms.

In an attempt to break the will of the five Cubans, the FBI resorted to an infernal series of mistreatment in violation of all penitentiary regulations and international conventions against cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment.

The fateful September 12, 1989, after their savage arrest under the strict supervision of Pesquera, the Cubans were taken to FBI general headquarters in Miami, where their initial interrogation was marked by deception, blackmail and promises aimed at undermining their will with the most sophisticated interrogation methods which Pesquera himself, without a doubt, later proposed for Guantánamo.

A few days later, for no reason at all, the five prisoners were moved directly to punishment cells in the Special Holding Unit of the Miami Federal Detention Center.

The extreme conditions of this place, commonly known as “the hole” are meant for recalcitrant prisoners: 23 hours pr day of incarceration in the cell and only one hour “free” each weekday. Saturdays and Sundays, 48 hours in their individual cells, stripped of all personal belongings.

The cells are less than three by two meters in size, with a roughly finished cement floor, metal bed, concrete table and backless chair, metal toilet and sink.

They were kept in those holes until February 2000!

After visiting Gerardo for the first time, lawyer Leonard Weinglass reported that he was naked, locked up in what is known as the “box,” a “hole” inside the “hole.” When they let him out for the meeting, they removed all the other prisoners from their cells first so that he could not be seen, could not hear a human voice or see another human being.

The manipulation of visa applications and family visits constitutes one of the cruelest instruments used by the FBI to destroy the resistance of the Five.

Pesquera renounced his FBI post in December 2003, just after the Miami New Times published a report describing his strange relationship with an individual within the Miami Cuban-American fauna known for his involvement in various frauds. Today he is advisor to the Sheriff of Broward County, currently the object of a corruption investigation.

Land of the free. Love it!
 
In the interests of fairness I should mention the political dissidents in prison in Cuba too. One thing I did find though was that through art and to some extent literature (especially in the Museum of Modern Art in Havana) there are subtle and not so subtle disagreements to the Castro regime.
 
Yap Yap Yap. I failed to look too closely at this thread when I was previously here, knowing I'd probably just wanna puke on some of you.

Telling us how horrible it will be if evil capitalistas like Starbucks move in. Oblivious to the fact that a company like Starbucks is successful because people LIKE going there. Duh.

Busy demonizing the exiles of the commie-pig, murderous dictatorship:

and the original miami cubans were the rich who cried because they lost their villas.

The people marching in the streets in Miami are being whipped up by exile radio which is controlled by a few really well connected wealthy exiles.

The BUT MONKEYS telling us Castro may be a murderous dictator BUT BUT BUT...the health system is sure something to behold.

He might be a dictator, but he still managed to give the Cuban people the best health, education and social security system in Latin America....

They have one of the best health care and education systems in the world....

I know that all, and I think it's amazing, I'd love that my country got the health system that cuban people have....

Here's some pictures of lovely Cuban health care a photohrapher named Luis Alberto Pacheco Mendoz risked being sentenced to life in prison to get out to the world:

kubac_1.jpg


kubab_1.jpg


kubaa_1.jpg


kubad_1.jpg


Oh how wonderful a health system that is! I am awestruck! But no thanks. Count me out. I'll stick with the Cleveland Clinic, one of the best hospitals in all the world, right here in my city in the good old USA.

But oh how kind Fidel is to let his people have the health system you see in those pics. He certainly is a nice guy, that Fidel! Hard to believe all his apoligists in the West don't just move there themselves! And if it weren't for the evil USA things would be even better!

Forbes:

Cuba's 76-year-old revolutionary doesn't advertise his opulent life. In public, at least, he dons fatigues and black combat boots. But he can afford better. We estimate that Castro has at least $110 million (roughly 10% of Cuba's GDP) at his disposal.

Oops, you forgot to mention that, you pathetic apologists for dictators. Did it ever dawn on you that you're just spewing Fidel's propaganda? Yes, he does rant on about the U.S. embrago in his ten hour speeches, and you morons eat it up, never asking yourselves that maybe you shouldn't believe the...um...dictator who murders people.

BUT BUT BUT, the BUT MONKEYS say.

At least one of ya had a brain, and had a but to the buts:

but being killed for thinking different is the same that Pinochet did to us,and I can't forget that...a murder done by a comunist or by a fascist is the same for me

Ah, thank you. The leftoids don't get that. For them, murder and enslavement by a commie is somehow "nicer," because the commie-pig may be a totalitarian and a murderer...but he's also an "idealist"!

There's a bit more the fools forgot to mention. I'll let the Swedish writer Johan Norberg take over, because he hits this point about Pinochet home and exposes these scummy lefties for the phonies they are.

And in these the final days of the Fidel regime, we keep hearing the propaganda about Cuban achievements in health and living standards. But it´s like the old joke about how you end up with a small fortune - you just start with a big one. It´s not difficult to present literacy approaching the Spanish rates if you started out by having higher literacy than Spain. So I´ll just repeat what I have written before:

Before Castro, Cuba was as rich as Italy, and richer than Spain. Cuba has not merely lagged behind, it has actually grown poorer, and is now more than five times poorer than these countries. It used to be among the richest in Latin America, now it’s among the poorest.

Cubans had better access to food than all other Latin American countries except Argentina before Castro, but now they have worse access than almost all the others. Cubans are the only people in Latin America who have seen their intake of calories decrease since then. It is now better than in the 90s, but more than every tenth Cuban is chronically undernourished.

Cuba had lower infant mortality than all other Latin American countries before Castro, and lower than France, Italy and Japan. It is the only area where progress has continued since then, but it has been much slower than in other similar countries.

(Source: Manuel Sánchez Herrero och Arnaldo Ramos Lauzurique: Los llamados logros.)

But hasn’t anyone benefited from the revolution? Sure, Castro has amassed a fortune equal to ten percent of Cuba’s GDP. This is one dictator who does not wear his uniform because he can’t afford a suit.

And, oh, did I mention that Castro has murdered more than 70,000 of his own citizens for political reasons? That’s about seven times more than Pinochet, who is hated by all leftists who love Castro. Apparently murder and brutality is not what they object to in Pinochet.
Here is a test of extreme leftists´ double standards: Do they mention the infant mortality statistics as an excuse for murder and dictatorship? In that case, do they think that Pinochet was better than Castro, since he reduced infant mortality in Chile more in 25 years than Castro has done in Cuba in almost 50 years?


"Apparently murder and brutality is not what they object to in Pinochet."

Indeed, it's not what they object to. And the other info is what their professors (cicadas like Ward Churchill) failed to fill them in on.

And it's especially disturbing that Castro has his fans on Morrissey-SoLow, considering Castro's cruel treatment of homosexuals. He stuck them in labor camps that had signs reading "Work Will Make Men Out of You," and he rounded them up and tossed them in prison, where they had to wear uniforms with a P on them, for "prostitutes, pimps and pederasts."

And as for the person who mentions artists, here's a poem by Raul Rivero (translation by Paul Berman), who - last I heard - is serving a 20 year sentence for daring to think for himself.

Search Order
by Raúl Rivero

What are these gentlemen looking for
in my house?

What is this officer doing
reading the sheet of paper
on which I've written
the words "ambition," "lightness," and "brittle"?

What hint of conspiracy
speaks to him from the photo without a dedication
of my father in a guayabera (black tie)
in the fields of the National Capitol?

How does he interpret my certificates of divorce?

Where will his techniques of harassment lead him
when he reads the ten-line poems
and discovers the war wounds
of my great-grandfather?

Eight policemen
are examining the texts and drawings of my daughters,
and are infiltrating themselves into my emotional networks
and want to know where little Andrea sleeps
and what does her asthma have to do
with my carpets.

They want the code of a message from Zucu
in the upper part
of a cryptic text (here a light triumphal smile
of the comrade):
"Castles with music box. I won't let the boy
hang out with the boogeyman. Jennie."

A specialist in aporia came,
a literary critic with the rank of interim corporal
who examined at the point of a gun
the hills of poetry books.

Eight policemen
in my house
with a search order,
a clean operation,
a full victory
for the vanguard of the proletariat
who confiscated my Consul typewriter,
one hundred forty-two blank pages
and a sad and personal heap of papers
—the most perishable of the perishable
from this summer.


f*** Fidel and f*** every one of his apologists.
 
Last edited:
Dave said:
000424_ElianGun.jpg


Let's face it, the difference between the US and Cuba is not what it used to be.


Yes...I was pretty torn about lil Elian. Tough decision.

I saw him on 60 Minutes recently, almost grown up now! It looked like he was being groomed as a future leader in the communist party! Wouldn't that be a funny one, if Janet Reno sent Elian back to Cuba only for him to become their future dictator! Doh!
 
Last edited:
Hi Theo.

I'm not interested in debating with you since you have such an aggressive and offending debating style, but please try not to quote me out of context.

I said:

He might be a dictator, but he still managed to give the Cuban people the best health, education and social security system in Latin America in spite of the American embargo... I'm not sure that things will be better for Cuba once he's gone.

You quoted me as saying:

He might be a dictator, but he still managed to give the Cuban people the best health, education and social security system in Latin America

And ignored my two primary remarks:

a) "in spite of the American embargo" - Cuba is a very poor country. Naturally, the health system there is inferior to the one you can find in First World countries... I believe you that your clinic in Cleveland is better (as long as you can afford it), and I'm quite sure that my clinic here in Tel Aviv is better as well. Now, you can put forward the claim that Cuba is poor because of Castro's policy, but you can't ignore the major economic impact of the American embargo. While the USA goes on trading with such regimes as China and Saudi Arabia, it insists on trying to collapse the Cuban economy - for close to 50 years, now. I think that the fact that, in spite of the embargo, Cuba's welfare system is still better than what you can find in the pro-US regimes in Latin America, speaks in Castro's favor. If you want to blame someone for the poor living conditions of the Cuban people, as displayed in the (admittedly terrifying) photographs that you posted, I suggest you refer to your President (did you know that around 3,500 Iraqi citizens were killed last month, by the way?), and the one before him, and the one before him and before him and, well, you get the point.

b) "I'm not sure that things will be better for Cuba once he's gone." I have no idea what's going to happen. I can't see the future. I am not a Castro apologist. I have no sympathy for Communist dictators, but I don't feel that the leaders of the western liberal democracies are doing too well either. All that I said is that "I'm not sure that things will be better for Cuba once he's gone." Can you give me a reason to be sure of it?

(If you choose to give me one, please do so in a respectable manner. Otherwise, I will ignore your post. Thank you.)
 
From my Avatar you can probably tell where I stand on this.

I think the thing to remember is that when others talk of the great literacy rate in Cuba, remember that its all very well being able to read but when you are only allowed to read Communist media then whats the point.
 
I don't mean this to be a political question but I have wondered for a long time...if the USA is the only country embargoing Cuba, that is, the rest of the world, is free to travel there, why is it so impoverished there? Why have no European countries invested there? Why are there no Japanese or Korean autos there, only the 1950 era Buicks? (That is the impression I get from what news etc that is shown of there.)

Is Cuba that dependant on the USA?
 
Back
Top Bottom