Dave Haslam - Before The Smiths were The Smiths

Nice article from Dave on Manchester architecture, Crazy Face, X-Clothes and Joe Moss

davehaslam.substack.com

Before the Smiths were the Smiths

Johnny Marr & Joe Moss - the cool dude and the true bohemian
davehaslam.substack.com davehaslam.substack.com

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Interesting photo. On the left is the burger bar, The Great American Disaster, that was opened in the early 1970s in the Old Half Moon Chambers by the guy who went on to set up the Hard Rock Cafe chain. The estate car outside Crazy Face was a red Morris that was used from 1978 to 1990.
 
Very enjoyable article but I really wish that Morrissey’s negative view of Joe wasn’t endlessly being dredged up. It was unkind and even paranoid but it was the feeling of a moment. Who doesn’t regret things they’ve said in moments of anger – especially after that person passes away?

Reading that article, it's clear that Johnny had many gifts – he had a thousand friends, knew all the ‘cool crowd’ (at 17!), had an amazing way with people and could get almost anyone to like him. Moz says in Autobio that he thought JM could easily have pushed his way in with head-hunters etc - that kind of social ability and confidence is really rare. If you are like Moz and your personality is the polar opposite of that – shy, awkward, uncomfortable in social situations – I can easily understand how you might feel threatened by all these other people crowding around your best mate and wanting a piece of the pie. The Smiths was the most important thing in M’s life, Johnny was the lynchpin, and he wanted to protect their “bubble” and their mission at all costs.

All of the tales about Morrissey’s hostility to producers and managers bear that out. I’m not saying it excuses the way he treated people or the comments he made about Joe Moss, but come on – you’d have to be blind not to understand why he felt that way. He was concerned that he was disliked (as a result of his awkwardness etc) and that if Johnny listened to the 'naysayers' too much, he would lose everything that mattered to him.
 
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Still surprising, 10 years after "Autobiography" was published, that Joe Moss's exit from The Smiths hasn't gotten more scrutiny. Even on Substack, Haslam and Moss's son are actually more respectful and sparing than they need to be. Morrissey's own account of the 'sinister plot' to oust him from the band so Joe could become the front-man is pure crackpot paranoia, proof positive his talent for self-sabotage is unparalleled in the history of rock and roll. When you consider that Johnny loved Joe as a father figure, and Morrissey apparently blamed Johnny, Mike and Andy for going along with the 'plot', the band's acrimonious break-up was a fait accompli as early as 1984. Moss's forced departure could have and maybe should have ended The Smiths.

Thankfully for the rest of us, Johnny knew he had a special songwriting partner. Or maybe, like a lot of 21-year olds, his callow youth made him emotionally bulletproof. In any case it's stunning The Smiths survived as long as they did.
 
Can anyone explain why, if there was animosity between them, Morrissey had Marion support him in the mid-90's with Joe managing them?
 
This is all such valuable information! I'm not a huge fan of Dave, but I will definitely be ordering the book he mentioned, too.
 
Biffa Bacon said:
Can anyone explain why, if there was animosity between them, Morrissey had Marion support him in the mid-90's with Joe managing them?
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Wasn’t Marr involved with them at some level? That might be more significant?
 
Les Tameside said:
Wasn’t Marr involved with them at some level? That might be more significant?
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A quick Google says he produced their second album in 1997 and had been friends with Philip Cunningham via Electronic so.. maybe? Found this photo... my God, that hair!
Johnny.jpg
 
Grilled Cheese said:
Maybe it was Morrissey’s way of apologizing to Joe.
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At the time, a popular rumour was that Billy Budd was about Marr. I think there’s reason to suspect the relationship was on his mind.

It would seem to be a Morrissey way of apologising. But perhaps a Morrissey way of saying goodbye—with good conscience rather than sourness—too? And then it all got more sour. Naturally.
 
Unlike most people I firmly believe that not every song by Morrissey is about Johnny f***ing Marr!
 
Les Tameside said:
At the time, a popular rumour was that Billy Budd was about Marr. I think there’s reason to suspect the relationship was on his mind.

It would seem to be a Morrissey way of apologising. But perhaps a Morrissey way of saying goodbye—with good conscience rather than sourness—too? And then it all got more sour. Naturally.
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They were on good terms then (mid-90s) - until the court case exploded everything again, of course.
 

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