the benefactors of this site

[Kirstie]

> This is a forum for Morrissey fans to discuss his music, music
> that we already know and love or else we wouldn't be at this
> site. This site gives me information, but if it did not exist, I
> would be no less or greater a Morrissey fan.

I agree.

Kirstie

 

[An Klestar]

> I agree.

> Kirstie

Is anyone discussing his music here? Please show me where!

This site is indeed frequented by people who keep it alive, regardless of its actual content. Anything Moz-related goes. Even the most trivial things. Should Morrissey be grateful?
I leave that up to him.
Point is and remains: if he wants to have a say, why doesn't he? He'll be heard, provided he does the talking personally.

I am grateful to David for this website.
And to Morrissey for his music.
Both know how to do their thing.

Yet consider the following scenario: suppose Morrissey is not happy with some of the actual contents presented here and decides to end any collaboration there may have been, or promote an alternative. What will we say?
Should it ever come to that point, I would prefer us to be able to have an open discussion.

That's all folks!

 

[Catching the butterfly]

> Is anyone discussing his music here? Please show me where!

> This site is indeed frequented by people who keep it alive,
> regardless of its actual content. Anything Moz-related goes.
> Even the most trivial things. Should Morrissey be grateful?

I wonder how Moz would be grateful for all the stupidity that goes on the main page. David was almost sure about the song Melaine, remember? Oh, what a joke! Flu and different accent. HE HE HE

I don't think that Moz would be happy seing people doing exactly what he "seems"to hate. Quoting his song: "Jesus save from, pity, simpathy, and people discussing me"...

And if this site here would be really interesting for HIM, he surely would put his hands on it. Did he? Maybe?

> I leave that up to him.
> Point is and remains: if he wants to have a say, why doesn't he?
> He'll be heard, provided he does the talking personally.

That would fine, really. he could a least send to David his point of view on the site, and this could be posted here. Since he hates journalists, why not saying something here?

> I am grateful to David for this website.

I have NOTHING to be grateful to David. His site is still here because the fans help him.

> And to Morrissey for his music.
> Both know how to do their thing.

Morrissey knows very well. But David should have some shame on his face for a change.

> Yet consider the following scenario: suppose Morrissey is not
> happy with some of the actual contents presented here and
> decides to end any collaboration there may have been, or promote
> an alternative. What will we say?
> Should it ever come to that point, I would prefer us to be able
> to have an open discussion.

Every decent web site, you will find the artist interacting with the fans. Maybe just a letter on the main page, or any other advice, but NO, not here... this is not his official site, is it? There is that other site with his letter concerning his book about james dean, bla bla. It seems that he just open his mouth, when money comes to his eyes, or runs out of his hands.

> That's all folks!

 

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> I don't think that Moz would be happy seing people doing exactly
> what he "seems"to hate. Quoting his song: "Jesus
> save from, pity, simpathy, and people discussing me"...

"Seems" is the operative word, here. If you actually think Morrissey is against people discussing him, then you REALLY missed the boat on that.

> And if this site here would be really interesting for HIM, he
> surely would put his hands on it. Did he? Maybe?

> That would fine, really. he could a least send to David his
> point of view on the site,

How do you know he hasn't?

and this could be posted here. Since
> he hates journalists, why not saying something here?

Maybe because he'd rather not? I'm sure that David knows EXACTLY what Morrissey thinks of this website. I'm also sure Morrissey also respects David for his discreetness - he (and his site) hasn't gotten this far by being a blabbermouth.

> I have NOTHING to be grateful to David. His site is still here
> because the fans help him.

It's like going in circles, isn't it? Are the fans here because of David's site, or is David's site here because of the fans?

Either way, all involved benefit (and yes, that DOES include Mr Morrissey).

> Morrissey knows very well. But David should have some shame on
> his face for a change.

What has he got to be ashamed about??

> Every decent web site, you will find the artist interacting with
> the fans. Maybe just a letter on the main page, or any other
> advice, but NO, not here...

That's an issue you'll have to take up with Moz. The forum is here, should he need it.

> this is not his official site, is
> it?

No.

> There is that other site with his letter concerning his book
> about james dean, bla bla.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't "that other site" his old record label?

> It seems that he just open his mouth,
> when money comes to his eyes, or runs out of his hands.

I'm confused; what is your stance on all this?

 

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> Your pompous self-regard in this matter is remarkable. What
> keeps "Morrissey alive these days" is the enduring
> appeal of his music to his fans...

...which is made more "enduring" by keeping that appeal (not necessarily of his music only, but the whole package) alive. I think you've missed her point.

> Morrissey's commercial peak as
> a recording artist occured long before fan Web sites existed.

LOTS of artists have peaked and then disappeared into oblivion. They also may still have many fans who enjoy their music, but if they were to go on tour tomorrow, how many of those fans would show up? How many would even KNOW about it? Morrissey's fans are different in the sense that he still manages to appeal to them in a very presonal way, but you need to admit that this site keeps him "alive" to them.

> This is a forum for Morrissey fans to discuss his music, music
> that we already know and love or else we wouldn't be at this
> site. This site gives me information, but if it did not exist, I
> would be no less or greater a Morrissey fan.

This has nothing to do with how big a fan you are. Let me ask you this: would he even cross your mind as much without morrissey-solo.com as he does with this site around?

Think about it.

> Besides, little of the information presented by this Web site
> pertains directly to Morrissey's music anyway. This thread is a
> fine example.

No, but when there IS information about Morrissey, you can bet yer a.ss you'll find out about it here, first.

 

[Catching the butterfly]

> "Seems" is the operative word, here. If you actually
> think Morrissey is against people discussing him, then you
> REALLY missed the boat on that.

That's why I said "seems". I knew someone would come and say what you are saying right now. I didn't mean "Morrissey is against people discussing him". I just think it must be very uncomfortable when you see your life on everyone's mouths. We said so many provoking words about Moz, and if he is a stable person, ok, but if he is NOT, he'd be pissed off now.

> How do you know he hasn't?

That's why I asked: "Did he? maybe?"

> Maybe because he'd rather not? I'm sure that David knows EXACTLY
> what Morrissey thinks of this website. I'm also sure Morrissey
> also respects David for his discreetness - he (and his site)
> hasn't gotten this far by being a blabbermouth.

Of course David and Moz share some informations, since this is the best and most popular Morrissey site. I just don't understand why we have so much rumours in here. Or maybe they just like to play with us. I wouldn't be surprised.

> It's like going in circles, isn't it? Are the fans here because
> of David's site, or is David's site here because of the fans?
> Either way, all involved benefit (and yes, that DOES include Mr Morrissey).

I'm not here for David, that I can assure you. I'm here for Morrissey, just him. But since I believe that David is more or less like a child, he has NOT my respect. If another great site comes on the net, I say "Bye mister moron, I don't need you anymore". I just use David, his site. it's a @#!!!ing nice site. And YES, the man is here because YOU are posting on his site. If we go away, NO MORE morrissey-solo. Lots of other sites can survive without message boards, but this one here is basicly "a message board".

> What has he got to be ashamed about??

I'll tell you what. he told me once he would NEVER, but NEVER delete any post of this board. I thought I was talking to a man of his word. But this is not a reason to be ashamed. By the way, if you consider this is his kingdom, there's nothing to feel ashamed.

> That's an issue you'll have to take up with Moz. The forum is
> here, should he need it.
> No.
> If I'm not mistaken, wasn't "that other site" his old
> record label?

I guess so.

> I'm confused; what is your stance on all this?

Take your on conclusions!!!!!!!!!

 

[Crimea Riverdance]

> I think you've missed her point.

What IS her point? She says that Morrissey benefits from this site and that people who Morrissey doesn't thank put a lot of work into it. That's not a point or a thesis. That's an observation. I've been asking her for her point for a day now and she won't answer.

>How many would even KNOW about it?
If Morrissey had a show in Atlanta, there would be an ad for it in the newspaper. I listen to and see shows by many musicians whose fan Web sites I do not visit. The Web is but one factor.

> but you need to admit that this site keeps him "alive" to them.
I don't need to admit something that is not true.

> Let me ask you this: would he even cross your mind as much >without morrissey-solo.com as he does with this site around?
Hate to break it to you, but yes I would. This site gives me information about someone whose music is of interest to me. I also enjoy spirited chat forums, but that's nothing to do with his music. If Suzanne thinks that she, or anyone else on this site fuels my appreciation of Morrissey's music, she's delusional.

 

[Bertrand]

Somny, be quiet, we're tired of it.

 

[suzanne]

> What IS her point? She says that Morrissey benefits from this
> site and that people who Morrissey doesn't thank put a lot of
> work into it. That's not a point or a thesis. That's an
> observation. I've been asking her for her point for a day now
> and she won't answer.

Reading this, I don't think you want to understand my point and are instead waiting for me to say something you want to hear.

Not everyone lives in Atlanta. Many of the people I stood next to in Vegas before the 99 show were from out of state and even out of the country.

Not everyone is so into live music that they constantly scour the entertainment sections of their newspaper. They may want to see Morrissey, but that's about it.

Not everyone takes a subscription to the newspaper. Newspapers are folding and merging because readership is down. Even if he did "take out an ad" there is a good chance that you may not even see it unless you have the time to sit and read every tiny section of the newspaper.

I never said that I personally fuel everyone's love of Morrissey. My second part of the point about the 13 year old is that they may read the magazine article, come to this website and find he has tons of fans that are nuts and can give him good advice on what album to buy, and feel a bit safer being able to associate a picture and name with an album than him simply sitting around and going "why the @#!!! should I care if he was a trivia answer?"

The thing is much of what is to do with music has NOTHING to do with the music. Logos, t-shirts, newspaper articles, gladioli, James Dean hair and NHS specs, MTV and radio appearances, coverart, animal rights protests. It's all about selling people an idea. The loner outsider. The guy who taunts with skinhead imagery. The celibate sex symbol. The glam rockabilly fan.

You hear that tossed around much much more around here than "stylistically, he is an interesting vocalist". No. You are 100X more likely to hear how someone recounted excitedly how Morrissey threw them his sweaty t-shirt.

People like the Morrissey they can see and touch. The people of B.F.T. are the first fans to slide because to them (if they don't own a computer) this is a guy that has dropped out of sight sometime roughly around 1994. Their pitiful record stores don't carry anything beyond the major releases. No import singles or CD's. The space normally reserved for Oye Esteban was taken over by a bunch of Ricki Martin concert DVD's. The local newspaper is sure as hell not going to run a column about Morrissey playing a show in the next state. Even their local magazine stores don't carry Mojo, Q, or NME to cater to British tastes. They are too expensive and cater to too few. Rolling Stone or Spin might run a tiny article, but you have to keep your eye out for it. Dave Matthews beats him out for the cover.

So, to you the entire world is like Atlanta. I understand that. However, there are many others out there that aren't that lucky. Morrissey skipped Texas alltogether in '97 and '99 and I would not have known there was a tour AT ALL had it not been for this and similar websites.

Of course, my life might have been for the better had I not seen a computer, but that's something else.

> If Morrissey had a show in Atlanta, there would be an ad for it
> in the newspaper. I listen to and see shows by many musicians
> whose fan Web sites I do not visit. The Web is but one factor.
> I don't need to admit something that is not true.
> Hate to break it to you, but yes I would. This site gives me
> information about someone whose music is of interest to me. I
> also enjoy spirited chat forums, but that's nothing to do with
> his music. If Suzanne thinks that she, or anyone else on this
> site fuels my appreciation of Morrissey's music, she's
> delusional.

 

[WorkingGirl]

Sorry, Morrissey owes you nothing.

You latched onto him, not the other way round.

Why should he concern himself with "fans" or "sites", do you read half of the posts here?

If Morrissey were to record tomorrow you would be happy, but if he didn't would you be less happy?

One day he won't be around to record or perform, what will you do then? live on memories as we all will.

Cherish what was and relish what might be.

WorkingGirlx

 

[I think I like bertrand]

Re: Somny, be quiet, we're tired of it.

Ok, guy, I respect your opinion, but at lest tell me your point.

 

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> I don't need to admit something that is not true.

Are you saying that this website has played absolutely NO part in keeping the community of fans abrest of the goings-on in Mozland and been used as a great source of info for newbie fans?

Or are you disagreing for the sake of disagreeing?

> Hate to break it to you, but yes I would. This site gives me
> information about someone whose music is of interest to me. I
> also enjoy spirited chat forums, but that's nothing to do with
> his music.

So if this site wasn't around, where would you get your information? The Rolling Stone? MTV? Heh...Good luck.

> If Suzanne thinks that she, or anyone else on this
> site fuels my appreciation of Morrissey's music, she's
> delusional.

Oh, come on! I don't think she's trying to take responsibility for anyone's appreciation of Morrissey.

Sounds like you have a personal agenda against Suzanne (which doesn't make any sense).

Cry me a riverdance, indeed.

 

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> That's why I said "seems". I knew someone would come
> and say what you are saying right now. I didn't mean
> "Morrissey is against people discussing him". I just
> think it must be very uncomfortable when you see your life on
> everyone's mouths. We said so many provoking words about Moz,
> and if he is a stable person, ok, but if he is NOT, he'd be
> pissed off now.

I'm sure he's used to it.

After all, it's been almost 20 years.

> Of course David and Moz share some informations, since this is
> the best and most popular Morrissey site. I just don't
> understand why we have so much rumours in here. Or maybe they
> just like to play with us. I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm sure David doesn't put just ANY news item up without checking its validity. If the occasional rumor ends up being false, so be it - he's allowed to make mistakes here and there.

> I'm not here for David, that I can assure you. I'm here for
> Morrissey, just him. But since I believe that David is more or
> less like a child, he has NOT my respect. If another great site
> comes on the net, I say "Bye mister moron, I don't need you
> anymore". I just use David, his site. it's a @#!!! ing
> nice site. And YES, the man is here because YOU are posting on
> his site.

I think you've taken this personal vendetta thing WAY too far. David is a fan who runs a website. He doesn't owe you or us ANYTHING. If you can't deal with him, then go away.

In short: put up, or shut up.

> If we go away, NO MORE morrissey-solo. Lots of other
> sites can survive without message boards, but this one here is
> basicly "a message board".

I disagree. People come here first and foremost for the info. There are other discussion boards for Moz and the Smiths. There aren't any up-to-the-minute news sites on him, though.

> I'll tell you what. he told me once he would NEVER, but NEVER
> delete any post of this board. I thought I was talking to a man
> of his word. But this is not a reason to be ashamed. By the way,
> if you consider this is his kingdom, there's nothing to feel
> ashamed.

Huh?

 

[Crimea Riverdance]

> Reading this, I don't think you want to understand my point and
> are instead waiting for me to say something you want to hear.

Instead of erroneously interpreting my wants, just say what your point is. Why are you agitated at the fact that Morrissey benefits from this site? That's my question. If you can't answer it, then you have no point.

 

[Crimea Riverdance]

> Are you saying that this website has played absolutely NO part
> in keeping the community of fans abrest of the goings-on in
> Mozland and been used as a great source of info for newbie fans?

Yes, I am. I'm saying that this site is a reaction to Morrissey's fame, not fuel for it.

My evidence is simply that Morrissey's rise to fame predates by over a decade this Web site. Morrissey's public-stature at any given moment is subject to the whims of the music press and the public at large, and not a bunch of hardcore fans like us. We are the converted. If Morrissey-solo disappeared tomorrow, it would in no way effect my love of his music.

If this site disappeared tomorrow, I'd find the info somewhere else, just like I did before.

> Oh, come on! I don't think she's trying to take responsibility
> for anyone's appreciation of Morrissey.

Did you actually read her posts?

> Sounds like you have a personal agenda against Suzanne (which
> doesn't make any sense).

My only agenda spirited debate. Throughout this thread, I have peppered my messages with questions because I'm trying to get to the meat of the argument. I've never met Suzanne and know nothing about her.

> Cry me a riverdance, indeed.

That's so trite and pretentious that it's painful. The wannabe Oscar Wildes on this site are riotous. Riotous, INDEED!

 

[Onimusha]

Her point is.....

> Instead of erroneously interpreting my wants, just say what your
> point is. Why are you agitated at the fact that Morrissey
> benefits from this site? That's my question. If you can't answer
> it, then you have no point.

Morrissey is ungrateful and selfish. There.. I said it.

 

[Lifeguard Sleeping]

> Yes, I am. I'm saying that this site is a reaction to
> Morrissey's fame, not fuel for it.

I think it's both.

> My evidence is simply that Morrissey's rise to fame predates by
> over a decade this Web site. Morrissey's public-stature at any
> given moment is subject to the whims of the music press and the
> public at large, and not a bunch of hardcore fans like us.

We ARE "the public at large!"

> We
> are the converted. If Morrissey-solo disappeared tomorrow, it
> would in no way effect my love of his music.

As I've said before, I'm not questioning your love of his music. And of COURSE we're the converted! Who ELSE would come here? Who else would go to ANY website if they had no interest in the subject matter?

> If this site disappeared tomorrow, I'd find the info somewhere
> else, just like I did before.

So why do you keep coming to THIS one? It obviously has some kind of appeal that the other sites don't have.

> Did you actually read her posts?

I did.

> That's so trite and pretentious that it's painful. The wannabe
> Oscar Wildes on this site are riotous. Riotous, INDEED!

My apologies; I didn't know that the Wilde estate owned the rights to the word, "indeed."

Gimme a break!
(Shall I pay royalties to Nell Carter for that one?).

 

[Mimi]

> Sorry, Morrissey owes you nothing.

I never claimed he did.

> You latched onto him, not the other way round.

No not quite, he decided to have a career in pop so he latched onto me first if you like.

> Why should he concern himself with "fans" or
> "sites", do you read half of the posts here?

I can't quite help it....... though I also remember better times, without such nutters as Somnium, I still think this isn't too bad and if you learn not to take some people too seriously you can have an easy life here.

> If Morrissey were to record tomorrow you would be happy, but if
> he didn't would you be less happy?

Whether I'm happy or not has little to do with Morrissey in general, but I'd certainly give me a buzz just like everyone else. And it'd be better for him, that's for sure.

> One day he won't be around to record or perform, what will you
> do then? live on memories as we all will.

Well, but my point is: "officially" he IS still around, but we see or hear nothing, he's playing dead.....that's all I'm complaining about. What's so painful about saying a word or two every now and again??

> Cherish what was and relish what might be.

I certainly do exactly that.

 

[Crimea Riverdance]

> I think it's both.
I don't. We disagree. What is the evidence to support your view?

> So why do you keep coming to THIS one? It obviously has some
> kind of appeal that the other sites don't have.

1- News about Morrissey. It's an easy place to get it. 2 - I enjoy impassioned bulletin board discussion such as this.

> Gimme a break!
> (Shall I pay royalties to Nell Carter for that one?)

Now THAT's hilarious. I retract my prior rebuke.

 

[Crimea Riverdance]

Re: Her point is.....

> Morrissey is ungrateful and selfish. There.. I said it.

Have you met him? How do you know? What obligation to you has he not met? His job is to make records and put on concerts. Our job is to pay for and enjoy them. Everything else is superfluous.