Obama backs plans for a mosque to be built

It does. It's a great illustration of how fictions (such as "death panels") are created and used to manipulate people. The right has created a false issue to use to rally people to its cause. Created a "threat," pumped it up to huge proportions, then used it to show how bad/dangerous/Un-American the left is. It's just so distressing that the usual rhetorical tactic of poking a hole in that inflated fiction doesn't seem to be working; you cross this issue with the study (goinghome?) cited about corrections to news stories only reinforcing incorrect beliefs, and we have no control over these lies and no good way of clearing them up.

This is horrifyingly true.

Anesthesine, do you know when the Cordoba decision will actually be made, and by whom? City council? Would that be just a Manhattan issue, or do the boroughs' reps get to weigh in?

Once the Landmarks Commission gave it the green light, I think it crossed the final legal hurdle. Governor Paterson was supposed to meet with the developers to discuss an alternative site, but that is apparently not going to happen.

Given all the hoopla, I think there's a good chance it won't actually happen. It's a target now, and financial backers may balk at the investment. Who can say?

I love how more and more often, the ungrammatical "stupider" is exactly the right word for the occasion.

Only elitists say "more stupid." :rolleyes:
 
Once the Landmarks Commission gave it the green light, I think it crossed the final legal hurdle. Governor Paterson was supposed to meet with the developers to discuss an alternative site, but that is apparently not going to happen.

Given all the hoopla, I think there's a good chance it won't actually happen. It's a target now, and financial backers may balk at the investment. Who can say?

I agree, it probably won't be built, now. I hope they find an alternate site a block away and it escapes scrutiny.
 
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...ild-library-next-to-sarah-palin-201008193017/

OUTRAGE OVER PLANS TO BUILD LIBRARY NEXT TO SARAH PALIN
19-08-10
PLANS to build a state-of-the-art library next to Republican catastrophe Sarah Palin are causing outrage across mainstream America.


Almost 40% of Americans still support the idea of books
Campaigners have described the project as insensitive and a deliberate act of provocation by people with brains.

The issue is forming a dividing line in advance of November's mid-term congressional elections with candidates being forced to declare whether they have ever been to a library or spoken to someone who has books in their home.

Meanwhile President Obama has caused unease within his own Democratic party by endorsing the library and claiming that not everyone who reads books is responsible for calling Mrs Palin a f***wit nutjob nightmare of a human being.

But Bill McKay, a leading member of the right-wing Teapot movement, said: "Sarah Palin is a hallowed place for Americans who can't read.

"How is she going to feel knowing that every day there are people going inside a building to find things out for themselves and have thoughts, right in the very shadow of her amazing nipples."

He added: "Our founding fathers intended for every building in this country to be a church containing one book, written by Jesus, that would be read out in a strange voice by an orange man in a shiny suit who would also tell you who you were allowed to kill.

"Building a library next to Mrs Palin is like Pearl Harbour. Or 9/11."

And Wayne Hayes, a pig masseur from Coontree, Virginia, said: "I is so angry right now.

"It's like something is on fire right in the middle of my head. Like I've eaten a real hot chilli, but it's gone up my nose tubes rather than down my ass tubes."

He added: "Would these library lovers allow me to set up a stall next to the Smithsonian Museum and start selling DVDs of bible cartoons as long as it was in accordance with local regulations?

"Oh they would? I see. So is that why they're better than me?"

The sad, weeping cherry on top is that this is from an English publication.
 
A Test of Tolerance

"Emboldened by the crass nature of the opposition to the center, its defenders have started to talk as if it represented no problem at all and as if the question were solely one of religious tolerance. It would be nice if this were true. But tolerance is one of the first and most awkward questions raised by any examination of Islamism."
 
RIDER ASKS IF CABBY IS MUSLIM, THEN STABS HIM

It was the first fare of the cabdriver’s shift. A young man hailed him at the corner of Second Avenue and East 24th Street, wanting to go to 42nd and Second. It was 6 p.m. on Tuesday; the traffic was dense.

Once the fare, Michael Enright, a 21-year-old film student who had been recently trailing Marines in Afghanistan, settled in the back, he started asking friendly enough questions: Where was the driver from? Was he Muslim?

The driver, Ahmed H. Sharif, 44, said he was from Bangladesh, and yes he was Muslim.

Mr. Enright said, “Salaam aleikum,” the Arabic greeting “Peace be upon you.”

“How’s your Ramadan going?” Mr. Enright asked, Mr. Sharif said.

He told him it was going fine. Then, he said, Mr. Enright began making fun of the rituals of Ramadan, and Mr. Sharif sensed this cab ride might not be like any other.

“So I stopped talking to him,” Mr. Sharif said. “He stopped talking, too.”

As the cab inched up Third Avenue and reached 39th Street, Mr. Sharif said in a phone interview, Mr. Enright suddenly began cursing at him and shouting “This is the checkpoint” and “I have to bring you down.” He said he told him he had to bring the king of Saudi Arabia to the checkpoint.

“He was talking like he was a soldier,” Mr. Sharif said.

He withdrew a Leatherman knife, Mr. Sharif said, and, reaching through the opening in the plastic divider, slashed Mr. Sharif’s throat. When Mr. Sharif turned, he said, Mr. Enright stabbed him in his face, on his arm and on his thumbs.

Mr. Sharif said he told him: “I beg of you, don’t kill me. I worked so hard, I have a family.”

'DRUNK' DESECRATION AT MOSQUE

A drunk barged into a Queens mosque last night and shouted anti-Muslim slurs as he urinated on prayer rugs, cops and witnesses said.

Evening prayers were disrupted at the Iman Mosque on Steinway Street in Astoria when the unhinged man "came in with a beer bottle in his hands, clearly very intoxicated," said Mustapha Sadouki, who was attending services.

"He fumbled over to our rugs where people were praying" and then committed the despicable desecration, Sadouki said,

The man, identified by cops as Omar Rivera, also allegedly shouted slurs, calling the worshippers "terrorists."

Two men managed to subdue him. They put him a back room and called 911.

Cops took him to a hospital and later charged him with criminal trespass.

"He stuck up his middle finger and cursed at everyone," said Sadouki, 43.

"No one can pray now because the rugs are completely soiled. It was disgusting.

"He calls us terrorists, yet he comes into our mosque and terrorizes other people.

"This is a true hate crime."

GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS' COIN STRATEGY said:
1-19 The contemporary environment also features a new kind of globalized insurgency, represented by Al Qaeda, which seeks to transform the Islamic world and reorder its relationship with the rest of the globe. Such groups feed on local grievances, integrate them into broader ideologies, and link disparate conflicts through globalized communications, finances, and technology. While the scale of the effort is new, the grievances and methods that sustain it are not. As in other insurgencies, terrorism, subversion, propaganda, and open warfare are its tools. But defeating such an enemy requires a similarly globalized response to deal with the array of linked resources and conflicts that sustain it.

...

UNITY OF EFFORT IS ESSENTIAL

1-98. Unity of effort must pervade every echelon. Otherwise, well-intentioned but uncoordinated actions can cancel each other out or provide a competent insurgent many vulnerabilities to exploit. Ideally a counterinsurgent should have authority over all government agencies involved in operations. However, the best situation that military commanders can generally hope for is to be able to achieve unity of effort through communication and liaison with those responsible for the nonmilitary agencies. There are many U.S., in ternational, and indigenous organizations needing coordination. ... The most important connections are those with joint, interagency, multinational, and host-nation organizations to ensure, as much as possible, that objectives are shared and actions and messages synchronized. Achieving synergy is another essential element for effective COIN.

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Which people? The ones that kill because of religious hatred? I mean if you want to treat the cab-stabber as a hate crime that's fair enough, although hate crime is bullshit, anyway. A stabbing is a stabbing. But if you want to further say that this person that stabbed the cabbie is somehow representative of a larger group of people, and that his violent actions, based on his beliefs, also reflect the mentality of that larger group of people, isn't that kind of ironic?

Most people that are against the mosque are peaceful.
 
Yes.

Yeah, hate crime is totally lame. :thumb:

It is totally lame. The function already exists in the law to accomplish the same objective as hate crime laws do. When sentencing the judge can consider the motive. Any time we have a two laws that do the same thing, and especially when the second law is thrown together because of some political group's desperate attempt to profit from special interests or uninformed public opinion, such as the racist law in Arizona requiring Latinos to carry ID, the second law is usually an embarrassment. That is not how the law should work.

I'm not sure why we have hate crime laws for gay people but then have "don't ask; don't tell." When Obama appeared at a Barbara Boxer rally and was asked to get rid of "don't ask; don't tell" he laughed and said "we're working on it." He obviously doesn't care about equality or he wouldn't have had Rick Warren speak at his inauguration.

You ignored the part where you made a statement mirroring the statements of those you disagree with. And even by your own apparent endorsement of hate crime laws (I guess. You seem to trade in sarcasm so it's hard to tell.) you're way off. Most Americans treat all religions pretty much equally. I don't care if someone has Muslim beliefs, as an individual. I do resist any trends that would indicate growing political power of Muslims as a whole. You cant be tolerant against intolerance, and if you look at any country where Muslims are in power, there is certainly not a respect for equality and freedom of religious choice.

Another poster here once said that if he could he would wipe out the Jewish faith, and no one gave a shit. But if someone said they would like to wipe out Islam they would be treated like they're mentally ill. The trends on so-called hate crimes reflect this accurately.

In 2008, 105 hate crime "incidents" against Muslims were reported nationwide. There were 10 times more incidents recorded as anti-Jewish during the same year, the most recent for which figures are available.

The number of anti-Muslim hate crimes leaped to a record 481 in 2001, apparently prompted by the terrorist attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center. It hasn't been nearly that high since.

All told, 7,783 reported hate crime incidents occurred in 2008. These incidents can take many forms.

Lodi, Calif., resident David Halla, for instance, was arrested Monday and charged with assaulting a 76-year-old charter bus passenger while en route to a California casino. This could count as a hate crime, as witnesses say Halla shouted racial epithets at the Spanish-speaking victim.

On the other hand, if Halla had called the alleged victim old, that wouldn't have been recorded as a hate crime, because age is not covered by federal hate crime laws.

By itself, hate is not a crime.


Lame, huh? Maybe we should make laws against being mean.
 
Yes, it was sarcasm; hate crime is "totally lame" because, well, it's f***ing hate crime. Was it really necessary to write a nonsensical 5-paragraph response to my single-sentence post? I was implying that perhaps our society is going in the wrong direction because people are still being murdered solely because of their religion, race, sex, or orientation. It's not that difficult to understand.
 
i was born in Manhattan. I am a fiercely partisan native of this island.

My husband worked at World Trade Center #7; he was late for work on September 11th, or he would have been one of those ash-covered survivors. Hell, he called me from the train that morning to tell me that he saw smoke coming from one of the towers, but that he was going in anyway. As it turned out he was on the first commuter train to be held one stop before Manhattan. I watched the towers fall, and I didn't know that his train had been stopped. There was no cell phone communication at that point - for all I knew he was right in the middle of it.

So, I'm not a survivor, nor am I related to one, but my life and the life of my family was changed that day, and I can categorically state that I don't care about Cordoba House - it is a non-issue. My husband, who would have been right there if only he'd gotten to work on time that day doesn't care, either.

For those of you unfamiliar with lower Manhattan, the buildings are very, very tall, and two blocks might as well be two miles. It is a very densely packed neighborhood (and there are Mosques that have been here for decades). Cordoba House is not "at" Ground Zero. People should just stop trying to "defend" New York - we can take it, we all live side by side here and we like it that way. The crocodile tears that the rest of the country pours out over "Sodom By The Sea" these days is for the most part a sham; most self-identified "real" Americans hate us pinko/commie/homo/tree-hugging heretics until it's time to beat their chests over Ground Zero. Then and only then is New York a sacred place.

No one I know is upset about this - it's not even a mosque, it's a community center with a prayer room; Feisal Abdul Rauf is a fairly moderate Imam who has spent many years trying to foster good relations between the Muslim and the Western world (and he's not doing a particularly good job these days). FYI Cordoba is a city in Spain that for many centuries was at the crossroads of civilization - it is a place where Christians, Muslims and Jews lived peacefully together, and for that reason it was one of the most significant cultural centers of the ancient world.

Obama is absolutely right - this is America, and no one has the right to tell anyone that they cannot build a house of worship anywhere they damn well please (as long as it's legally zoned). The Imam could have been a bit more sensitive to the ramifications of the situation, but all this hysteria is completely unwarranted. This is still a free country, and every American who wants to stop the YMMA from being erected in that neighborhood needs a civics lesson. I respect the opinions of the families of the dead who are uncomfortable with this, but there is nothing that any politician has to say in opposition to Cordoba House that is anything short of absurd, self-serving, divisive, cynical, wrong-headed and ultimately un-American.

Jesus/Allah/Jehova/ wept.

THis is a great post. Tweak it a bit and send it in to a mag or newspaper.

what i like the most is this part:

"the crocodile tears that the rest of the country pours out over "Sodom By The Sea" these days is for the most part a sham; most self-identified "real" Americans hate us pinko/commie/homo/tree-hugging heretics until it's time to beat their chests over Ground Zero. Then and only then is New York a sacred place."

so true and i thought the same!! brilliant!!
 
The Taliban vs. the Mosque (Newsweek)

Taliban officials know it’s sacrilegious to hope a mosque will not be built, but that’s exactly what they’re wishing for: the success of the fiery campaign to block the proposed Islamic cultural center and prayer room near the site of the Twin Towers in lower Manhattan. “By preventing this mosque from being built, America is doing us a big favor,” Taliban operative Zabihullah tells NEWSWEEK. (Like many Afghans, he uses a single name.) “It’s providing us with more recruits, donations, and popular support.” [...]

Taliban officials say they’re looking forward to a new wave of terrorist trainees from the West like this year’s Times Square car bomber. “I expect we will soon be receiving more American Muslims like Faisal Shahzad who are looking for help in how to express their rage,” says a Taliban official who was a senior minister when the group ruled Afghanistan and who remains active in the insurgency. As an indication of the anger that is growing among some Muslims in the West, this official, who requested anonymity for security reasons, mentions the arrest of three Canadian Muslims in Ontario last week on charges of plotting to build and detonate improvised explosive devices. (A fourth individual was arrested in Ottawa last Friday in connection with the case.) The Ground Zero furor will likely add to that anger. “The more mosques you stop, the more jihadis we will get,” Zabihullah predicts.
 
Wait, you lectured everyone that it's not a mosque and then you post a quote from the Taliban calling it a mosque. Also, you suddenly seem to think it's a reasonable strategy to consider all Muslims as potential terrorists. "We'd better build this mosque or we will be increasing the ranks of Al Qaeda." Is that really what you think? I thought that all New Yorkers spoke with the same enlightened voice. I guess it's whatever idea or quote seems useful at the time to stay in lockstep.
 
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