Moz goes GaGa

[CrystalGeezer]

What the f***! It looks like some sort of bad porn. The fact that Jonas Åkerlund directed that shit makes me embarrassed to be swedish! The cafe scenes could be some lousy rip off of Pulp Fiction. And the tv-reporter is Jai Rodriguez from Queer Eye For The Straight Guy!

I think the whole thing is supposed to be pulpy, mocking or drawing from Kill Bill.

Nothing fake about this, but this isn't exciting and fun and magical and profitable and cumtastic! This is real.

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[Dave]

Sorry, but mad, crazy and cretin was last year. This year is different.
Please give the outline. Nothing mad about it, simple human resources and product as well as business development thinking. She got to where she is today and she must have got there somehow. How. She claims that she does it all on her own. I gave you a little assistance as to what is relevant.

I am not an "avid Gaga fan" first of all. Second, if you have a point to make, then make it. Don't call on me like I am your student and you are the professor. You're being very condescending. I don't know what she said to Jonathan Ross. I know what she said to Barack Obama, and I think that's a lot more important.


About the Telephone video, I think it's up there with the best I've seen.

 

[Pokey]

I think the whole thing is supposed to be pulpy, mocking or drawing from Kill Bill.

Nothing fake about this, but this isn't exciting and fun and magical and profitable and cumtastic! This is real.

[youtube]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aNU-NqQoenQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aNU-NqQoenQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Absolutely, that is real emotion. However, Moz isn't an angel when it comes to eh, borrowing ideas. "The girl most likely to" is one of the biggest ones in my opinion. Not to mention the countless lines he's lifted from places too. Gaga may not be as entirely original as some people claim to be, but really .. who is?

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

The borrowing of ideas and references doesn't bother me really, but everything that she does somehow seems insincere and formulated to me, at least in terms of the music (and that's what really matters).

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

The borrowing of ideas and references doesn't bother me really, but everything that she does somehow seems insincere and formulated to me, at least in terms of the music (and that's what really matters).

Yes, and no. I don't think she's insincere. She is very cleverly calculated. But the real problem is that she's not saying anything. It's entertainment that purports to carry a message, but there's just no message there. Really, try to put your finger on something. You can't. Feminine liberation? Really? Sexual liberation? Oh? It's all been done, and more effectively. Those are yawn-worthy, now. It would be better, in my opinion, if she were just to say, "I want to create spectacular, over-the-top, fun, danceable nonsense."

 

[Worm]

The borrowing of ideas and references doesn't bother me really, but everything that she does somehow seems insincere and formulated to me, at least in terms of the music (and that's what really matters).

Of course she's insincere. Ever since Madonna popularized the idea of the "businesswoman" in pop music, further popularized by hip-hop's notion of "gettin' paid", listeners almost have more respect for fake artists who can put on a good show than they do for "genuine" artists. The more obvious the attempt to manipulate us, the more we enjoy it. The only criterion of judgment is how bold the rip-off is: the less original and more audacious the theft, the more we like it. Instead of berating GaGa for her cynical, talentless, inartistic schemes to get rich or die tryin', we applaud her "professionalism". You don't go to Vegas to see real emotion, you go for the big show; Vegas is the world now. The buffet is open all night.

 

[Uncleskinny]

Of course she's insincere. Ever since Madonna popularized the idea of the "businesswoman" in pop music, further popularized by hip-hop's notion of "gettin' paid", listeners almost have more respect for fake artists who can put on a good show than they do for "genuine" artists. The more obvious the attempt to manipulate us, the more we enjoy it. The only criterion of judgment is how bold the rip-off is: the less original and more audacious the theft, the more we like it. Instead of berating GaGa for her cynical, talentless, inartistic schemes to get rich or die tryin', we applaud her "professionalism". You don't go to Vegas to see real emotion, you go for the big show; Vegas is the world now. The buffet is open all night.

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

Yes, and no. I don't think she's insincere. She is very cleverly calculated. But the real problem is that she's not saying anything. It's entertainment that purports to carry a message, but there's just no message there. Really, try to put your finger on something. You can't. Feminine liberation? Really? Sexual liberation? Oh? It's all been done, and more effectively. Those are yawn-worthy, now. It would be better, in my opinion, if she were just to say, "I want to create spectacular, over-the-top, fun, danceable nonsense."

Maybe insincere was the wrong word. What I really meant, and what I've always felt about Gaga, is exactly what you said in your post: she claims to have a message and something unique to convey, but fails to deliver this and instead churns out repetitive and formulaic ditties that seem to me to be devoid of anything remotely distinctive or significant. I applaud the business/industry savvy of her and her PR people, but behind the hype and flamboyance there appears to be a complete dearth of substance and meaning. This is what I find, for lack of a better word, insincere: not the fact that her music is frivolous and unoriginal, but rather the fact that it claims to be something else.

Of course she's insincere. Ever since Madonna popularized the idea of the "businesswoman" in pop music, further popularized by hip-hop's notion of "gettin' paid", listeners almost have more respect for fake artists who can put on a good show than they do for "genuine" artists. The more obvious the attempt to manipulate us, the more we enjoy it. The only criterion of judgment is how bold the rip-off is: the less original and more audacious the theft, the more we like it. Instead of berating GaGa for her cynical, talentless, inartistic schemes to get rich or die tryin', we applaud her "professionalism". You don't go to Vegas to see real emotion, you go for the big show; Vegas is the world now. The buffet is open all night.

Very true. It seems that so many involved in the industry view music as a money and hype machine rather than an art, and I find that terribly sad.

 

[modrevolve]

you'd never see Morrissey in the arms of Kiss

 

[CrystalGeezer]

you'd never see Morrissey in the arms of Kiss

I wonder if somewhere on a Kiss messageboard people are losing their minds?

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Here's the message the diner scene in Telephone conveyed, but with way more class, originality and artistry.

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[PregnantForTheLastTime]

This is what I find, for lack of a better word, insincere: not the fact that her music is frivolous and unoriginal, but rather the fact that it claims to be something else.



Very true. It seems that so many involved in the industry view music as a money and hype machine rather than an art, and I find that terribly sad.

Insincerity, dishonesty... yes. I really would enjoy her more if she didn't pretend to be more serious than she is. I watched some interviews with her while preparing to write my paper, and she seems to struggle. Music can be pure fun, can be a business. She could simply admit "I want to be the world's biggest ever disco showgirl." She's got the guts to do weird stuff that's really not sexy--the blood at one appearance, the weird monster/zombie imagery in the "Bad Romance" video. For me it's really her vague insistence that she's cutting edge or relevant that throws it all off. If she stopped saying that, she might actually make an interesting statement, by not claiming to be making one.

I know I'm a bit naive, but to me, real artists don't go around running their mouths about how they are Making Art. They say, "I don't know anything except that I've got to paint. I have to write. I can't not do it." Could Morrissey have chosen not to be MORRISSEY? Nope. I don't think so. I think Gaga's doing exactly what she feels compelled, body and soul, to do, but she would do well to cultivate an enigmatic shrug to pull out when asked about her purpose.

Also, I find Bad Romance to be the most annoying f***ing song in a decade. I had a temp gig back in January where the radio was always on in the office, and that song was played HOURLY. That's not the only reason I quit, but it was on the list.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I know I'm a bit naive, but to me, real artists don't go around running their mouths about how they are Making Art. They say, "I don't know anything except that I've got to paint. I have to write. I can't not do it." Could Morrissey have chosen not to be MORRISSEY? Nope. I don't think so. I think Gaga's doing exactly what she feels compelled, body and soul, to do, but she would do well to cultivate an enigmatic shrug to pull out when asked about her purpose.

Thank you, this is why I'm suspicious of her but couldn't put my finger on it. THere's other things that make me upset, like the Pussy Wagon thing. That car showed up in Kill Bill 1. It was The Brides "trophy," so to speak, of killing the man who took money in exchange for raping her while she was in a coma. That's some serious f***ing imagery. What right does Gaga or Bouncy have to drive that trophy in a new "reimagined" video? Becasue as far as I can tell Gaga's life has been kinda pampered, she never really says where her creative force is coming from, the pain she's drawing from. Morrissey does, he's looking for someone who haunts him. Gaga prances around in outfits and acts f***tastic, but can never really say why she;s doing what she's doing because I don't think they're all her ideas. The ideas are fed to her perhaps from these "older men" or whatever. Bleh.

 

[Worm]

I know I'm a bit naive, but to me, real artists don't go around running their mouths about how they are Making Art. They say, "I don't know anything except that I've got to paint. I have to write. I can't not do it." Could Morrissey have chosen not to be MORRISSEY? Nope. I don't think so. I think Gaga's doing exactly what she feels compelled, body and soul, to do, but she would do well to cultivate an enigmatic shrug to pull out when asked about her purpose.

You may be right, but as I see it an important difference is that Morrissey did not conform to a template. Certainly he borrowed many things from his inspirations, but the figure he cut, from the moment he took the stage as a Smith, was entirely new and unique. You would have to be extremely charitable to say that GaGa did the same. I don't think it's unfair to emphasize the Madonna connection, both in terms of the music and fashion she sells and the "businesswoman" paradigm she's following.

There was a blueprint for getting rich and famous and she followed it. The fact that, sure, she's shown some cleverness in her ownership of the formula doesn't make it any less a pre-existing formula. Morrissey followed a blueprint for dying alone in a rented room in Whalley Range and got rich and famous on the strength of his talent.

(Perhaps a more intriguing inquiry might be to accept that GaGa is behaving in a totally genuine, heartfelt, and soul-satisfying way-- and try instead to ascertain whether or not the meaning of these words has changed in the last ten or twenty years.)

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

(Perhaps a more intriguing inquiry might be to accept that GaGa is behaving in a totally genuine, heartfelt, and soul-satisfying way-- and try instead to ascertain whether or not the meaning of these words has changed in the last ten or twenty years.)

Oh, I agree. Her message, as stuttered out in an interview I watched, is that she's trying to help people to feel comfortable in their own skins, whoever or whatever they may be. I just wasn't aware that we were suffering from a lack of self-esteem in this country and needed a savior to give us permission to be ourselves. Following through her message in this way reveals something terrifying: all the alternatives presented these days seem to be on the same menu of consumerism. They are, as I think we've discussed somewhere here, false choices.

The struggle Gaga seems to want to help us with is false; she's not offering permission to be ourselves, but to be like ourselves, and to play our roles more convincingly. The freedom to express one's personality is great, but I think we need more help on a deeper level. We need help developing our personalities, in constructing identities that cannot be (and do not need to be) defined by what soda pop we drink or what color smartphone we carry.

Can't we choose not to choose? Can't we choose not to? Can't the smartphone color choice be attributed to whim, and not interpreted as a deeper expression of our innermost selves? I like having choices, but I resent being expected to respect having those choices.

 

[MissMoz]

I honestly think that everyone and probably me need to get a grip!
Moz has finally got the picture. Just because he wants to actually talk to someone who is famous for reasons other than depression than why is that bad.
If you cared at all, you'd be happy he is finally getting himself out of his loneliness.
PS:Lady GaGa is really good anyway and you can't just except that.
PPS:I am going to be killed for this post.

 

[Uncleskinny]

I honestly think that everyone and probably me need to get a grip!
Moz has finally got the picture. Just because he wants to actually talk to someone who is famous for reasons other than depression than why is that bad.
If you cared at all, you'd be happy he is finally getting himself out of his loneliness.
PS:Lady GaGa is really good anyway and you can't just except that.
PPS:I am going to be killed for this post.

????????????

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I honestly think that everyone and probably me need to get a grip!
Moz has finally got the picture. Just because he wants to actually talk to someone who is famous for reasons other than depression than why is that bad.
If you cared at all, you'd be happy he is finally getting himself out of his loneliness.
PS:Lady GaGa is really good anyway and you can't just except that.
PPS:I am going to be killed for this post.

????????????

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[Worm]

Oh, I agree. Her message, as stuttered out in an interview I watched, is that she's trying to help people to feel comfortable in their own skins, whoever or whatever they may be.

But I don't know who I am until I express myself.

The struggle Gaga seems to want to help us with is false; she's not offering permission to be ourselves, but to be like ourselves, and to play our roles more convincingly. The freedom to express one's personality is great, but I think we need more help on a deeper level. We need help developing our personalities, in constructing identities that cannot be (and do not need to be) defined by what soda pop we drink or what color smartphone we carry.

You're right, but: may I play devil's advocate and ask what the difference is between "constructing" an identity with Shakespeare and Mozart and slapping one together using Coke and iPhones?

Can't we choose not to choose? Can't we choose not to?

Fortunately for us, the singer/songwriter we all love best is a sterling example of such negativity.

By the way, do you realize 89% of U.S. soft drink sales are controlled by just three companies? Follow the link for a groovy chart. A similar chart about the recording industry would be very instructive.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

You're right, but: may I play devil's advocate and ask what the difference is between "constructing" an identity with Shakespeare and Mozart and slapping one together using Coke and iPhones?

I think that, these days, Shakespeare and Mozart are all of a color. A lot of the things I like are, to most of the people in my life. I like those things because I like them (I like my BlackBerry a lot, too), not because of how they make me look to others. I haven't constructed my identity from them, I pull them close to me because in them I see parts of myself. You could get all chicken-and-egg about it, I suppose, but I think the crux of it is that I, at least, am not actively trying to project an image. I dress plainly. I look corporate. Even my hairstyle, which is, on a personal level, an act of protest, is blandly trendy right now. I do not expect that people looking at me will be able to guess what I love and what makes me who I am. At most, I project an image of someone who is personally tidy, organized, serious, and fairly conservative. All of those things are true, but they're not defining characteristics.

By the way, do you realize 89% of U.S. soft drink sales are controlled by just three companies? Follow the link for a groovy chart. A similar chart about the recording industry would be very instructive.

If you're interested, I can refer you to a journal article about the delivery channels for pornography and the ownership structures of various media channels. Sickeningly interesting. In short: Britney Spears was absolutely "training porn."

Levande, Meredith. "Women, Pop Music, and Pornography."Meridians: Feminism, Race, Transnationalism 8.1 (2008): 293-321.