Morrissey's Sudden Love for Rome?

[Sinefil]

All I know is, he's in love with something and 'we' don't know what is it. Eventually, he wants to live in Rome and he seems happy. So what difference does it make?

 

[celibate cries]

I think it's wonderful that Morrissey has at last found peace with himself.
(it gives faint hope to lonley souls like me )

What i've seen of Rome it looks very beautiful so i cant blame him
for 'falling in love' with it either.

 

[bartvdp]

As far as paying for sex goes, I don't think Morrissey would approve of something like that.

Could that be why he sings "You have killed me". I.e. "You have made me do something I don't approve of. I can never be my old self again."

Why the combination of mechanical sex and God/foregiveness in both "Dear God please help me" and "You have killed me"?

Guilt, or at least unease, are prominent in both songs, so maybe you're right: he might have done things he doesn't approve of. Maybe he knows he will do them again ("Dear God please help me").

(By the way: I'm trying to interpret Morrissey's work. Whether his work reflects events in his personal life, or just his fascinations is none of my business.)

 

[veradicere]

It's no surprise to me that he's decided to spend time in Rome. I think from what he's said this is a moment in his life when he is inspired and full of confidence.

Much as he tries to brush it off as something he chose to do, my impression of his time in LA is that he fled there after the court case and more or less became a depressive recluse because he felt so hated. It's no surprise now he feels more loved he has the confidence to travel again and not hide away.

As far as paying for sex goes, I don't think Morrissey would approve of something like that. This is an old fashioned puritan socialist we are talking about. Prostitution is exploitation to someone like him. He disapproves of musicians exploiting groupies and prostitution isn't any different. I know in this postfeminist world a lot of people equate prostitution with freedom, but to someone whose politics were formed in seventies and eighties Britain, the Marxist analysis still stands.

Interesting theory about LA I bet you're right. Morrissey needs approval so so badly, and yet openly courts controversy. So strange.

In terms of the rent boy, I'm not sure Moz would actually have the balls to get one himself, but I don't believe he's about writing about it (case in point: piccadilly palare).

 

[veradicere]

Could that be why he sings "You have killed me". I.e. "You have made me do something I don't approve of. I can never be my old self again."

Why the combination of mechanical sex and God/foregiveness in both "Dear God please help me" and "You have killed me"?

Guilt, or at least unease, are prominent in both songs, so maybe you're right: he might have done things he doesn't approve of. Maybe he knows he will do them again ("Dear God please help me").

(By the way: I'm trying to interpret Morrissey's work. Whether his work reflects events in his personal life, or just his fascinations is none of my business.)

To me it certainly sounds like a sexual fantasy...like roleplaying (maybe it's just my dirty mind):
"Pasolini is me, accattone you'll be"

 

[rank-dsgn]

I don't know if this has already been suggested anywhere but if the lyrics of "Dear God please help me" and "You have killed me" are about being in love with 'something', my interpretation of that 'something' would be: the scene of male prostitutes in Rome.

'Dear God...' is obviously about a sexual encounter with a rentboy. It's the rather technical description of a sex act with a stranger who approaches men on the street. Not an account of personal romance, although it's clear that to the singer this encounter has the value of a religious ritual. What he is in fact implying in the 'now i'm spreading your legs' bit is that he's having sex with some manifestation of God (God is the 'you' throughout the song.) In literature this combination of gay sex and religious (Roman Catholic) imagery is far from uncommon. I had never heard it turned into popular song.

In the opening of 'You have killed me' the singer _is_ Pasolini and he is metaphorically 'killed' by someone who introduced him to the phenomenon of 'entering' and 'being entered'. (Pasolini actually was murdered, allegedly by a rentboy (an 'accattone'))

In short: it's 'Picadilly Palare' in Rome.

That was good. Clever interpretation

 

[sarahT]

Dear God please help me could be about someone who is about to take their vows in Rome and is spending their last night wandering the streets, worried and confused before putting themselves through some sort of personal test in the hope it will give them the definite answer they are looking for.
Or it could be about Johnny Marr. (joke)

 

[bauer24]

One thing worth considering is that Morrissey's lyrics are not always autobiographical. Just thought I would point that out!

 

[Tingle3]

What's the Italian for 'promenade'. I saw the TV show Franccesco's Italy (any idea who Francesco is??) and he was making a big thing of how it's OK to stroll the streets and just say 'hi' to complete strangers. Maybe that's what Morrissey enjoys? What's wrong with that? People in London would call the police.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/programmes/?id=francesco_italy

 

[tender hooligan]

I would be truly glad if he is happy after all. (One way or another) Truly, truly, truly.

 

[bartvdp]

That was good. Clever interpretation

Thanks.

A few more points before I'll stop boring you with this:

- "Dear God please help me" and "You have killed me" are the only songs on Ringleader that are explicitly set in Italy/Rome.
- On the album, "Dear God..." is directly followed by "You have killed me", linking them even more strongly together, "Dear God" being 'the event', and "You have killed me" the 'situation afterwards'.
- The 'situation afterwards' is: "We have a seemingly profane Pasolini-like 'relationship', but there is also a more sophisticated Luchino Visconti in me, and you will never be a part of that. There is a happy ending though: 'I forgive you'."

Of course Morrisseys work is more universal than this rather narrow casual sex (rentboy) interpretation. He is merely hinting at the things I describe far too directly.
That's why he's a poet and I'm not.

 

[bauer24]

Thanks.
Of course Morrisseys work is more universal than this rather narrow casual sex (rentboy) interpretation. He is merely hinting at the things I describe far too directly.
That's why he's a poet and I'm not.

Or, you could be completely way off the mark.

I am not criticizing you by the way, your interpretation and study is a very well thought out and intelligent post.

But I would hazard a guess that uncle Moz would completely disregard your interpretation and we would find it was just a completely fictional story!

Then again, you may be right

 

[bartvdp]

But I would hazard a guess that uncle Moz would completely disregard your interpretation and we would find it was just a completely fictional story!

Every song is a work of fiction.
I am not speculating about Morrissey's personal life or about his intentions when writing these two songs.
I only describe the kind of situation/relationship these songs suggest to me.

 

[Dupree]

Just to add to the interpretations of You Have Killed Me...the lyric 'You have killed me' always reminds me of the French phrase 'le petit mort', which fits nicely with some of your other comments.

 

[wolve]

Just to add to the interpretations of You Have Killed Me...the lyric 'You have killed me' always reminds me of the French phrase 'le petit mort', which fits nicely with some of your other comments.

i still believe my french is good enough (I had an examination about it today!) and petit mort means masturbation...

 

[Dupree]

i still believe my french is good enough (I had an examination about it today!) and petit mort means masturbation...

Hmmm, I understand the literal translation is 'the little death' and it is widely used to mean an orgasm.

 

[wolve]

potato potato ;-)

 

[Dupree]

Still, I am rather fond of the notion that Morrissey is making such a bold statement in such a euphamistic fashion.

Of course, the beauty of media in the public domain is that it belongs to and means something to all of us - a thousand different meanings and connections.

 

[Math Tinder]

'Le petit mort' (the 'little death') is that 'collapse' after orgasm - breathing hard, suddenly sated, unable/unwilling to move for a moment. I think the French are the only people to have a specific term for it.

bartdvp, I quite like your interpretations. I hope you'll post more of them. It should go without saying that when we speculate about the meaning of a song, we are giving the song its own life, divorced (at least partially) from its creators' intentions. Yes, of course this isn't necessarily what Morrissey meant, and of course it doesn't necessarily reflect anything Morrissey actually did - it's just our way of expanding the song, giving it meaning and life. Dupree put this very beautifully.

You may not be a poet, bart, but you are poetic in your works of interpretation. I hope you continue them, to benefit the rest of us. They're lovely.

love, math+

 

[tender hooligan]

I'm not sure what the confusion is about Morrissey's love for Rome. It seems like the perfect place for him to live: romantic, historic, stylish, eclectic. What I think is the better question is - what on earth possessed him to live in Los Angeles for seven years???? I could never figure that one out.

Me too!I also think Rome is far more Moz-like . And i also diagree with a paid-sex theory. I think someone like MOZ/hyper-sensible, poetic, gentle,looking for outside/inside beauty couldnt paint THAT vulgar picture.Just my opinion.