Is Morrissey Asperger's?

[Trouble loves me]

Now before you all jump on me and batter me to death with language, i wish to stress that this is just a theory.
However, i was reading an article in Sunday's Observer Magazine about autistic people claiming back their identity; they want autism to be recognised as a way of life rather than a disability. One of the main interviewees is a Dr Dinah Murray, a British lecturer and professor, who has studied the issues and has recently been diagnosed Asperger's herself. At one point it describes her atypical development and it reminded me of someone:

"As a child, she spoke very early, was reading by two and was clearly highly intelligent - but also a bit odd. 'I did lots of things that today might well attract a diagnosis of Asperger's'. Some social interactions would trigger a meltdown, she spent a lot of time looking at the world through her fingers, responded very strongly to smells and was often accused of being unaware of people's needs"

Furthermore, i've been reading a book on the autistic spectrum ... i'll quote a couple of passages:

"Those who have good language skills may be more amenable, but they can cause small social crises. They do not understand that some things are better left unsaid. They may talk about topics that are not mentioned in polite society."

The passage goes on to explain how adults grow out of this adolescent phase much later than (what autistic people like to call) NT's (Neurologically Typical's) and continue to show certain traits in their awkwardness in society.

Also:
"Other's realise that they have great difficulty in forming relationships and cope by deciding that they are not going to try. The majority are very aware of and distressed by their inability to form friendships, or to maintain them if they are ever started ... They lack the instinctive knowledge of how to make the first moves prior to becoming accepted by others. If they do begin a relationship, they are often unable to give and take and may make inappropriate demands on the other person."

Only two things get in the way of this theory, and those are that our Moz is very imaginative, something not considered typical of the autistic spectrum and appreciates comedy... but then there are so many different degrees of the condition. Basically, all it is, is extra brain matter improving memory and rote learning ability, but causing the individual to maintain single (even sheer bloody minded) focus on only one thing at any one time; our world becomes one with too many distractions and hence causes 'meltdown'. But, i wonder if that extra brian matter might not be centered in the language part of the brian in some autistic people?

Also, the professor in the interview tells a story she finds funny:
"I did know one autistic friend who joined a monastery, but he had to leave because he found the monks too sociable".
Sounds like the sort of dry wit of which Moz is very capable.

Anyways, apologies if i've gone a bit too scientific, or you think i'm jumping the gun and having a dig at Moz. Far from it; having worked with autistic kids, i think it would vindicate him on so many grounds:

- pulling out of performances last minute
- the time he disappeared from the recording studio in Manchester and ended up in London
- requiring things to be 'just right' like the bush in the dressing room ... if that's true
- his obsessions
- his ability to remember quotes, indeed, whole chunks of text.

Basically, all those people who criticise him for his behaviour ... well, he can't help it.
I'd be interested to know what other people think (insert backlash here).

 

[dazzak]

Nah. He's just Morrissey.

 

[Philosopher]

cant believe Im agreeing with you

But I thought about that extensively as well, since I was an aid to a 12 year old boy with Aspergers while he was in middle school six years ago(we have maintained a "friendship" and he is now in college,we hang out often) Anyway, I think you said it best when you stated there are DEGREES of this syndrome.

I think it is very very likely Moz has a degree of Aspergers. However it does affect the brain, it seems really possible that it could be influencing his brain chemistry in some variable way-

It is an extremely interesting subject (Aspergers, not if Moz has it)

> Now before you all jump on me and batter me to death with language, i wish
> to stress that this is just a theory.
> However, i was reading an article in Sunday's Observer Magazine about
> autistic people claiming back their identity; they want autism to be
> recognised as a way of life rather than a disability. One of the main
> interviewees is a Dr Dinah Murray, a British lecturer and professor, who
> has studied the issues and has recently been diagnosed Asperger's herself.
> At one point it describes her atypical development and it reminded me of
> someone:

> "As a child, she spoke very early, was reading by two and was clearly
> highly intelligent - but also a bit odd. 'I did lots of things that today
> might well attract a diagnosis of Asperger's'. Some social interactions
> would trigger a meltdown, she spent a lot of time looking at the world
> through her fingers, responded very strongly to smells and was often
> accused of being unaware of people's needs"

> Furthermore, i've been reading a book on the autistic spectrum ... i'll
> quote a couple of passages:

> "Those who have good language skills may be more amenable, but they
> can cause small social crises. They do not understand that some things are
> better left unsaid. They may talk about topics that are not mentioned in
> polite society."

> The passage goes on to explain how adults grow out of this adolescent
> phase much later than (what autistic people like to call) NT's
> (Neurologically Typical's) and continue to show certain traits in their
> awkwardness in society.

> Also:
> "Other's realise that they have great difficulty in forming
> relationships and cope by deciding that they are not going to try. The
> majority are very aware of and distressed by their inability to form
> friendships, or to maintain them if they are ever started ... They lack
> the instinctive knowledge of how to make the first moves prior to becoming
> accepted by others. If they do begin a relationship, they are often unable
> to give and take and may make inappropriate demands on the other
> person."

> Only two things get in the way of this theory, and those are that our Moz
> is very imaginative, something not considered typical of the autistic
> spectrum and appreciates comedy... but then there are so many different
> degrees of the condition. Basically, all it is, is extra brain matter
> improving memory and rote learning ability, but causing the individual to
> maintain single (even sheer bloody minded) focus on only one thing at any
> one time; our world becomes one with too many distractions and hence
> causes 'meltdown'. But, i wonder if that extra brian matter might not be
> centered in the language part of the brian in some autistic people?

> Also, the professor in the interview tells a story she finds funny:
> "I did know one autistic friend who joined a monastery, but he had to
> leave because he found the monks too sociable".
> Sounds like the sort of dry wit of which Moz is very capable.

> Anyways, apologies if i've gone a bit too scientific, or you think i'm
> jumping the gun and having a dig at Moz. Far from it; having worked with
> autistic kids, i think it would vindicate him on so many grounds:

> - pulling out of performances last minute
> - the time he disappeared from the recording studio in Manchester and
> ended up in London
> - requiring things to be 'just right' like the bush in the dressing room
> ... if that's true
> - his obsessions
> - his ability to remember quotes, indeed, whole chunks of text.

> Basically, all those people who criticise him for his behaviour ... well,
> he can't help it.
> I'd be interested to know what other people think (insert backlash here).

 

[Danny]

I thought the main problem with people with Asperger's was their lack of empathy.

If so, I don't think he has Aspergers.

These days it seems to be a label attached to anyone who has a bit of a problem with social situations.

Morrissey is just shy.

 

[Claire]

Sounds like a very interesting article. Sir Isaac Newton was thought to have Asberger's as well. I'd have to agree with Danny though that Mr. Morrissey demonstrates a lot of empathy and emotional understanding, also he enjoys hugging, and usually autistic people cannot tolerate physical contact (nor even eye contact).

What's this about bush in the dressing room though? Do tell, I haven't heard that story.

> I thought the main problem with people with Asperger's was their lack of
> empathy.

> If so, I don't think he has Aspergers.

> These days it seems to be a label attached to anyone who has a bit of a
> problem with social situations.

> Morrissey is just shy.

 

[Trouble loves me]

Re: The bush story (no presidents involved)

> What's this about bush in the dressing room though? Do tell, I haven't
> heard that story.

Apparently he had to have either gladioli or just a regular shrub cut to exact specifications before performing ... i think it could have been to hang out of his back pocket, or simply to adorn the dressing room.
Very diva-like no? I've never attributed much truth to the tale, but who knows, it is Morrissey.

As for the Aspergers theory, like i said, it's just speculation. You're right, if he enjoys hugging and demonstrates empathy, then it's unlikely he has the condition ... it's just that some days, it can seem like it.
Especially when you hear things from the people who've met him ... like that comment by Brett Anderson about Morrissey being so shy it's not even endearing, it's just annoying or stupid, (or whatever he said).

But then our Moz came back with that glorious retort about Anderson never forgiving God for not making him Angie Bowie ... Genius.

 

[Philosopher]

Re: The bush story (no presidents involved)

Actually the hugging thing does not apply to Aspergers, thats an autistic trait-

The boy I referred to in my first post is extremely "huggable" and seeks them out often and he would be considered severe Aspergers...

> As for the Aspergers theory, like i said, it's just speculation. You're
> right, if he enjoys hugging and demonstrates empathy, then it's unlikely
> he has the condition ...

> forgiving God for not making him Angie Bowie ... Genius.

 

[Claire]

Question about Asperger's article

I get the impression that this is a condition that tends to improve or even go away as the person gets older? Boz has mentioned that Morrissey seems more comfortable in his own skin in recent years, and even Moz himself has spoken of "blossoming and blooming" as he gets older.

In my earlier post I mentioned that Sir Isaac Newton was thought to have Asperger's. There happened to be a documentary on tv last night called "Isaac Newton's Dark Secrets". As a young man, he lived in almost constant isolation and was apparently a life-long celibate. In his later years, he came out of his shell a bit and seemed to be embracing his public persona more.

> Apparently he had to have either gladioli or just a regular shrub cut to
> exact specifications before performing ... i think it could have been to
> hang out of his back pocket, or simply to adorn the dressing room.
> Very diva-like no? I've never attributed much truth to the tale, but who
> knows, it is Morrissey.

> As for the Aspergers theory, like i said, it's just speculation. You're
> right, if he enjoys hugging and demonstrates empathy, then it's unlikely
> he has the condition ... it's just that some days, it can seem like it.
> Especially when you hear things from the people who've met him ... like
> that comment by Brett Anderson about Morrissey being so shy it's not even
> endearing, it's just annoying or stupid, (or whatever he said).

> But then our Moz came back with that glorious retort about Anderson never
> forgiving God for not making him Angie Bowie ... Genius.

 

[Kate (passwordstillscrewed)!]

have any of you guys read 'the noutorious incident of the dog in the night time' by Mark Haddon, its about a boy with aspergers and it's brilliant.
Thanks for the interesting thread by the way

 

[Trouble loves me]

Re: Question about Asperger's article

> I get the impression that this is a condition that tends to improve or
> even go away as the person gets older? Boz has mentioned that Morrissey
> seems more comfortable in his own skin in recent years, and even Moz
> himself has spoken of "blossoming and blooming" as he gets
> older.

Yes, that is true ... the woman who was Asperger's in the article said so herself; she is married with two children. It's interesting about the hugging thing aswell; perhaps they don't have the hypersensitivity of autistic people that causes them to shun physical contact.

I've heard that Newton was thought to be Asperger's, as was Einstein, Mozart and Galileo. Although, I would be wary about labelling all 'genius' types as having a condition ... then again, as i said at the start, it's not a disease, rather just an atypical brain.
Perhaps it gets better as people get older because the brain degenerates anyway, so all those extra synapses go, leaving the autistic individual with a more typical brain.
As ever, that's just a theory though. Let's ask Moz shall we?

 

[suzanne]

Re: Question about Asperger's article

> Yes, that is true ... the woman who was Asperger's in the article said so
> herself; she is married with two children. It's interesting about the
> hugging thing aswell; perhaps they don't have the hypersensitivity of
> autistic people that causes them to shun physical contact.

> I've heard that Newton was thought to be Asperger's, as was Einstein,
> Mozart and Galileo. Although, I would be wary about labelling all 'genius'
> types as having a condition ... then again, as i said at the start, it's
> not a disease, rather just an atypical brain.
> Perhaps it gets better as people get older because the brain degenerates
> anyway, so all those extra synapses go, leaving the autistic individual
> with a more typical brain.
> As ever, that's just a theory though. Let's ask Moz shall we?

i was curious about the subject and found out that Steven Spielberg and Dan Ackroyd have been diagnosed. supposedly, you can get them on the subject of filmmaking and police detective stuff respectively and they can go on for hours about it.

and why not? i think that when it boils down to it, any pursuit, whether it be math or humor is like a big mathematical equation of things you throw together to get your intended effect.

 

[Missy]

No, Morrissey does not have Asperger's

A friend of mine was diagnosed with Asperger's, and he has nothing in common with Morrissey (other than being incredibly intelligent). People with Asperger's are horrible at expressing any type of emotion and are typically not depressive. Rather, they are rational and see the world in numbers. They are abrasive and loud, usually, and the last sort of person who would care about their wardrobe. Trust me, Morrissey does not have Asperger's. You spend five minutes with someone who's been diagnosed, and you'd agree. Interesting theory though...

 

[Lykos]

Re: No, Morrissey does not have Asperger's

I tend to agree with you, although I know there are different degrees of this and have known numerous people with it and none remind me of Morrissey and if he's got it then I would highly suspect I do as well but I've never even considered that as a possibility because there are several issues that clash too badly, mainly the loud brashness that those with it always seem to pose from time to time. I didn't actually realize they were not typically depressive either, very interesting.

Definitely an interesting topic and theory though.

> A friend of mine was diagnosed with Asperger's, and he has nothing in
> common with Morrissey (other than being incredibly intelligent). People
> with Asperger's are horrible at expressing any type of emotion and are
> typically not depressive. Rather, they are rational and see the world in
> numbers. They are abrasive and loud, usually, and the last sort of person
> who would care about their wardrobe. Trust me, Morrissey does not have
> Asperger's. You spend five minutes with someone who's been diagnosed, and
> you'd agree. Interesting theory though...

 

[katie]

if all of this is true then i have asperges

 

[suzanne]

> if all of this is true then i have asperges

or you might have Assburger's just like Ian does.