virtually dead
Simply Thrilled, Honey
It's amusing when you let them believe they've won, isn't it? That's what makes fighting with !Viva Hate! so funny.
i haven't had a go yet!
"You Have Killed Me" lyrics observation - Probably Old News
i haven't had a go yet!
virtually dead
Simply Thrilled, Honey
D
Deleted member 1074
Guest
If I throw a stick, will you leave?
It is MY thread...why don't you leave?
virtually dead
Simply Thrilled, Honey
You have very striking featres....how often exactly have you been struck?
(er..remember this is for fun, be gentle with me
)
D
Deleted member 1074
Guest
You have very striking featres....how often exactly have you been struck?
(er..remember this is for fun, be gentle with me
I would horse whip you right now...but I fear for the health of the horse...
virtually dead
Simply Thrilled, Honey
Do you know what would make you look really good? DISTANCE!
D
Deleted member 1074
Guest
Do you know what would make you look really good? DISTANCE!
I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception...
virtually dead
Simply Thrilled, Honey
You're so ugly, you could eat a watermelon through a picket fence...
D
Deleted member 1074
Guest
You're so ugly, you could eat a watermelon through a picket fence...
I hear you got your looks from her father....He's a plastic surgeon.
PS - Your last one didn't quite make any sense...
virtually dead
Simply Thrilled, Honey
I can see that you are flirting with intelligence and getting the cold shoulder in return...
faroffplaces
How I feel in my mind
My take: Whether we feel that an understanding of Morrissey's sexual orientation is vital to an understanding of his work depends upon how much of his work we feel is autobiographical - certainly his love/lust songs often describe a complex attitude towards attraction; one's attitude regarding the gender of that person, and what one's been socially taught to feel about it, is all part of that. Thus if one feels, as I do, that some of it is directly about his own life, then yes there is a connection; if there are hints Morrissey has some sexual interest in men, or some kink to him or something else outside the (nonexistent, but perceived) "norm," then that would lend itself to certain readings and certain trains of thought.
That said, the primary purpose of Morrissey's lyrics is not to tell us, through coded messages, that he's straight, gay or bisexual. If Morrissey's primary interest in writing lyrics were to come out to us, rather than to discuss his, others' and characters' experiences (or all three in one), then he would've done a song called "You're The Ones For Me, (Female) Breasts!" or "I Like Penises" or "Yes, I Am Bi." Ambiguity, double meaning and speculation are vital, especially to his later, more compressed work. There's a reason it is "Pasolini is me" rather than "Let's say I am an Italian film director, who is gay, and you are my first film, which was about a pimp."
...Yes, the rhyme, and because otherwise, it becomes a Decemberists song (which is great, but totally different style). But other than that, even. Hints add readings, too much detail takes them away.
And HEAR HEAR NIGHTANDDAY regrading the whole business of sending Morrissey to the gay-artist ghetto; can we not leave this alone? (And given that "ghetto" really is an often-used word for this sort of thing, how about that for an alternate reading of "Ganglord?")
That said, the primary purpose of Morrissey's lyrics is not to tell us, through coded messages, that he's straight, gay or bisexual. If Morrissey's primary interest in writing lyrics were to come out to us, rather than to discuss his, others' and characters' experiences (or all three in one), then he would've done a song called "You're The Ones For Me, (Female) Breasts!" or "I Like Penises" or "Yes, I Am Bi." Ambiguity, double meaning and speculation are vital, especially to his later, more compressed work. There's a reason it is "Pasolini is me" rather than "Let's say I am an Italian film director, who is gay, and you are my first film, which was about a pimp."
...Yes, the rhyme, and because otherwise, it becomes a Decemberists song (which is great, but totally different style). But other than that, even. Hints add readings, too much detail takes them away.
And HEAR HEAR NIGHTANDDAY regrading the whole business of sending Morrissey to the gay-artist ghetto; can we not leave this alone? (And given that "ghetto" really is an often-used word for this sort of thing, how about that for an alternate reading of "Ganglord?")
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nightandday
New Member
Why you are asking me? Was I the one who started it? And I didn't say anything about supposedly sending Morrissey to the gay-artist 'ghetto' , as you call it, but Pasolini and Visconti. The idea that has been expressed by a few people in this thread is basically this: Pasolini and Visconti were gay; it follows that their homosexuality is the most important thing about them, if not the only important thing, therefore someone who namechecks them must, above all, have that in mind. I remember someone (now, who was it...?
) once expressed his distaste for 'sexual segregation', and I am more and more inclined to believe he was right. This is a perfect example of it, isn't it? Regarding ambiguity, I think that "Pasolini is me" can mean a lot more than "Let's say I am an Italian film director, who is gay, and you are my first film, which was about a pimp." But in order to read more than that into that line, people would have to know something more about that director and his work. Now, I'm not the world's biggest expert on Pasolini - I have only seen three of his films, and "Accatone" is not one of them - but I can still see that there is a lot more to him than "Oh, it's that gay Italian director who was (allegedly) killed by a rent boy".
I agree with you that Morrissey certainly isn't writing his lyrics in order to send 'coded messages' about his sexual preference - and in fact, I wonder how people can't see how silly that idea is in the first place. If he knew that he was gay/straight/bisexual/whatever, and wanted to tell people that, wouldn't it be a lot easier to do it in an interview? And if he wanted to conceal his sexual preference from the public, why would he release songs that supposedly reveal the truth? I have to laugh at the idea that every line he writes is some kind of coded message about his sexuality, and at people who believe that they are part of the select few who supposedly understand 'the truth'.
Besides - if he was sending 'coded messages', why would he choose the kind of reference that will make your average NME writer have a knee-jerk reaction: "Oh, yes, that Pasolini... he was gay, right? see, I told you Morrissey was gay!" even though they have probably never seen any of Pasolini's films and know nothing else about him. So am I to believe that Morrissey is supposedly 'coming out' (how silly that sounds in this case) in songs, and then denying it in interviews? Yeah, that really makes a lot of sense... ...Not to mention that, if he was actually sending messages about his sexuality in his lyrics, those would be very ambiguous and contradictory messages... If people want 'coming out' songs from Morrissey, they could just as well name at least one fairly recent song (2004) as a song where he's 'coming out' as straight (and it would actually be more explicit and unambigious than anything that's been named in DGPHM or YHKM). I don't believe that he's coming out as anything, or that he needs to - but why the double standard???
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faroffplaces
How I feel in my mind
Why you are asking me? Was I the one who started it? And I didn't say anything about supposedly sending Morrissey to the gay-artist 'ghetto' , as you call it, but Pasolini and Visconti. The idea that has been expressed by a few people in this thread is basically this: Pasolini and Visconti were gay; it follows that their homosexuality is the most important thing about them, if not the only important thing, therefore someone who namechecks them must, above all, have that in mind. I remember someone (now, who was it...?
I'm sorry it came across as the opposite -I can see how that's possible, and therefore it was a great failure of written communication on my part- but I was in fact wholeheartedly agreeing with you, or with what I percieved as what you were saying. Hence "hear, hear." The intention in phrasing it as a question was something like "Yeah, I agree, what's with this whole business you're discussing? Why do people do that?"
I was in fact expressing the opinion that gay artists should not be banished to their own little pen, and that "homosexuality" should not be the only association one has when one hears their names.
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