Poll: "Beethoven Was Deaf" vs. "Rank"...

[Critical Artist Responsible for Logical Observatio]

I listened to "Beethoven..." for the first time in a long while today, and had forgotten what a great live album it is. Some highlights for me are "Jack The Ripper", the "Ouija" fake out intro to "November", "I Know It's Gonna Happen Someday", "Seasick" and others...

I was just curious how people would rank "Beethoven Was Deaf" and "Rank" as performances. (try to evaluate the performance more than the quality of the songs... as Smiths songs are generally preferred 99% of the time)

I probably won't get to read most of your responses right away, as I'm moving from Houston to NYC tomorrow. Many thanks to those who raised interesting Moz discussion; it provided a fun distraction from packing and portfolio preparation...

-carlos

p.s. Is there anyone else that's also from NY? Just curious...

"I left the South
I travelled North
Oh yes, you can punch me
And you can butt me
And you can break my spine
But you won't change the way I feel"


1999

 

[homeless chihuahua]

I must admit I had never actually heard Beethoven uninterruptedly from beginning to end until last night. I put it as loud as my neighbors would stand, lit up a joint, turned off the lights and I actually tripped back to that tour almost in a first row basis. I think his voice is superior than any other live show I have of Moz, except for the version of We'll Let You Know, which I consider sounds almost soul ripping in the Introducing Moz video. The Ouija Board/I Know It's Gonna Happen medley is genius, and the Sister Im A Poet version I think surpasses the studio version. Rank on the other hand contains most of my favourite smith's songs, but the 1985 "Same Day Again" bootleg is my personal favourite. It contains most of the classic, less famous smiths tunes and it sounds like a very intimate gig, without a preconceived setlist in which the crowd would just yell their requests.
Well, never mind... never mind...

 

[LoafingOaf]

It's no contest. "Beethoven..." is clearly the better album.
I don't justr rank it his best official live album; it's also
his 4th best album overall as both a Smith and a solo artist.

 

[Nick Seriously]

> Beethoven is far superior to Rank. It is the disc that I give to non-Morrissey fans because of the contents and because it helps them understand the power of Morrissey's music and shows (I also slip in the Introducing Moz video). Can you beat "The Loop/Sister/Jack the Ripper"? How about "The Loop/Let the Right One Slip In/Jack the Ripper" (from "Your Arsenal" Limelight show)?

Loafing: What's your ranking (no pun intended)?

 

[LoafingOaf]

> Loafing: What's your ranking (no pun intended)?

You mean of all the albums? Well, it's ever-changing, but....

1. Meat Is Murder
2. Vauxhall & I
3. Louder Than Bombs
4. Beethoven Was Deaf
5. The Queen Is Dead
6. Strangeways, Here We Come
7. Your Arsenal
8. My Early Burglary Years
9. Hatful of Hollow
10. Viva Hate - reissue
11. Maladjusted
12. The Smiths
13. Bona Drag
14. Southpaw Grammar
15. The World of Morrissey
16. The World Won't Listen
17. Kill Uncle
18. Rank

The only slots which seem now set in stone are 1 & 2 and 16, 17 & 18. The rest are very closely bunched and I'm trying to base it on 1) How often I play the album, and 2) How well it works as a whole piece of work, from first track to last (and factoring in such aspects as cover art as well) (this second criteria boosted "Your Arsenal" a lot: there are albums below it with songs greater than anything on "Your Arsenal," but "Your Arsenal" as an example of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts).

"Rank" is at the bottom because I hardly ever play it, and when I do it's usually only for "Rusholme Ruffians." I have better options if I wanna hear The Smiths live.

"The World Won't Listen" is so low because it's so overshadowed by "Louder Than Bombs."

Although I use the reissue of "Viva Hate" due to its bonus tracks, the sleeve of the original is much cooler.

I decided not to include greatest hits compilations, even though The Smiths' "Singles" is one of my favorite discs to play. It's a good disc to hear the evolution of The Smiths over their shorts years. And it's got a lovely sleeve to boot. "Suedehead: The Best of Morrissey" seems to be a compilation put together by the label because Morrissey has said his "best" solo song - in his opinion - is "We'll Let You Know," and it's not there. The two "Best Of" Smiths compilations are basically just taking up space in my collection for completist purposes. I never play them.

 

[hnia]

> Loafing: What's your ranking (no pun intended)?

I'm with you Beethoven is better than Rank. Rank was such a huge
disappointment.

hnia

 

[Cili]

"Rank" is incomplete.

> Beethoven is far superior to Rank. It is the disc that I give to
> non-Morrissey fans because of the contents and because it helps
> them understand the power of Morrissey's music and shows

I agree that "Beethoven Was Deaf" is an incredible live album, but I have a difficult time placing it above "Rank." I think, more than the power of the music, it's the power of Morrissey's voice that makes "Beethoven" so special. It's so deep and thick, I just love how he sounds on it.

On the other hand, "Rank" is Johnny's show, not Morrissey's. His playing sounds amazing throughout, and shines incredibly on songs like "The Boy With the Thorn In His Side," "Bigmouth Strikes Again," and of course "The Draize Train."

I have an alternate version of that "Rank" show, a promo disc called "Dance With Octopuses." It features some tracks that were omitted from "Rank," like "There Is a Light That Never Goes Out," and "How Soon Is Now," to name a couple that immediately come to mind (I'm too lazy to go check). I actually don't know why these two were left off of "Rank," when subpar tracks (by comparison) like "London" or "Ask" were left on. Johnny Marr plays superbly on "There Is a Light...," and you can really hear the musicianship, and compositional greatness of the Smiths' music compared to Morrissey's post-Smiths works. I think that the only thing which makes "Beethoven" so good is solely Morrissey, whereas "Rank" reeks of the greatness of a classic band, and its classic music. To me, "Rank" will always be better than "Beethoven," but I suppose I'm too biased to make a proper decision.

Funny fact: On "Dance With Octopuses," "Bigmouth Strikes Again" is erroneously listed as "Bigmouse Strikes Again" [sic].

Gros bisous,
Cili