Years of Refusal is utterly brilliant

we all have diffrent views but YATQ "Lifeless" its real as it gets singing about america and dykes is what i expect from morrissey lol
At the end of the day at least we like the new album in one way of another! thats the main thing.
He could have done a duet with kylie and people would still be defending it(maybe lol) so lets hope if he is still about,he can talk on some media issues like the president now being black! blackish lol:) as hes been dreaming of a time when!
 
justme said:
Lyrics are very important to me as well. That's what got me into Moz in the first place. I really don't think YoR is Poor lyric wise. Skull is funny but , as someone said, sadly a very accurate modern life portrait. Carol is very intriguing, just like the smiths "what she said" was intriguing - you wonder about theses characters (I know I do). Plus Carol is so cinematic- I trully loved it. Birthday is fantastic, I really like you were good in your time lyrics, etc. Other are lighter, as you say, but I always find something in them. And the albu it's full of details,sounds, movies, as usual - and I love that.

what I think has changed is his lyrics style of writting, compared with his earlier - but it has been so since Quarry (which I also like very,very much :)). It's what I like to call The late-Moz phase :)

I think You and Comntess should stop going to gigs before Moz releases an album (or bring some ear plugs with you , just in case ah,ah :p)
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Too true... I don't think it can be denied any longer that his writing style has changed. It just pains me to hear THPGU. The lyrics are so direct. There's no beauty or poetry in the language (IMO). But just wait, he'll release a doozy as a b-side and confound us all.

I will take issue with your comment about all the details on the album. To me, it sounds like all these effects were added to compensate for the lack of substance.
 
Vauxhall95 said:
Too true... I don't think it can be denied any longer that his writing style has changed. It just pains me to hear THPGU. The lyrics are so direct. There's no beauty or poetry in the language (IMO). But just wait, he'll release a doozy as a b-side and confound us all.

I will take issue with your comment about all the details on the album. To me, it sounds like all these effects were added to compensate for the lack of substance.
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Well, I'm not too keen on THPGU, never was, but there are many gems in this new album, imo. You were good in your time is beautiful and heartfelt like anything he was done in the past. Birthday is fantastic, even OK has funny lyrics :) so yes, it's more direct but there is still a lot of beauty in them - it has been so, since quarry and I quite enjoy this late-Moz.

As for b-sides my dearest love is fantastic and I'm looking forward to the new ones, well I bought them last night :D

I'm affraid I disagree with your take on the album details- it adds texture and completes the songs imo, it has always been so, since the smiths - I just love it :)
 
justme said:
Well, I'm not too keen on THPGU, never was, but there are many gems in this new album, imo. You were good in your time is beautiful and heartfelt like anything he was done in the past. Birthday is fantastic, even OK has funny lyrics :) so yes, it's more direct but there is still a lot of beauty in them - it has been so, since quarry and I quite enjoy this late-Moz.

As for b-sides my dearest love is fantastic and I'm looking forward to the new ones, well I bought them last night :D

I'm affraid I disagree with your take on the album details- it adds texture and completes the songs imo, it has always been so, since the smiths - I just love it :)
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I admit sound effects, when properly used, can enhance an album. The "We are all innocent" quote after "America is Not the World" is a prime example, or "Spring Heeled Jim." However, it feels like there are sound effects everywhere on YOR.

To your point about "You Were Good in Your Time" the initial sound effects of the French speakers in the background lend a sophistication to an already great song; however the song gets mutilated by the two minute breakdown at the end.
 
Vauxhall95 said:
Too true... I don't think it can be denied any longer that his writing style has changed. It just pains me to hear THPGU. The lyrics are so direct. There's no beauty or poetry in the language (IMO).
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I keep thinking about something that Morrissey once said about Oscar Wilde: "He wasn't complicated yet he still left you lying on the bed panting because it was so real and truthful." That's what a good Morrissey lyric is all about. Songs like "Now My Heart Is Full," and "I Know It's Over," and "How Soon Is Now?", and "Trouble Loves Me," and "Late Night, Maudlin Street," and "What She Said," and "These Things Take Time," and "Lost," and - I could go on, but you get the general idea - those songs made you feel like you were hearing someone document the realities of life truthfully, and with a unique vulnerability. Even if the lyrics weren't always "poetic" they had that ring of honesty to them that made them treasurable. That's what is missing in so many of these new creations. That feeling of honest vulnerability that marks his best work.
 
Vauxhall95 said:
I admit sound effects, when properly used, can enhance an album. The "We are all innocent" quote after "America is Not the World" is a prime example, or "Spring Heeled Jim." However, it feels like there are sound effects everywhere on YOR.
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It's the "Jerry Finn Syndrome". I swear, he produced like a bored child. "Let's throw in this whooshy sound here for no reason at all... Now how about an electronic grinding noise throughout this song? Ooooh! Wait! I know - This lovely music is just crying out for some synth beeps. Here, let me add them. Perfect!" I mean, look at what he did to a perfectly good little pop song like "Let Me Kiss You". What a nightmare that guy was.
 
If you think YOR is brilliant, wait until you hear Vauxhall and I or Your Arsenal.
 
i now firmly think that if morrissey wants to put another crappy album like this one again he should retire. I forgave ROTT for pigsty...but enough is enough
 
Vauxhall95 said:
Too true... I don't think it can be denied any longer that his writing style has changed. It just pains me to hear THPGU. The lyrics are so direct. There's no beauty or poetry in the language (IMO). But just wait, he'll release a doozy as a b-side and confound us all.
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I have to agree with you, I think his lyrics are certainly different these days, and I can't help but prefer the older lyrics.

Having said that, I think the "Life is nothing much to lose..." bit in 'Mama Lay Softly on the Riverbed' is one of the most beautiful lyrics to pass Morrissey's lips in recent years, I can't get enough of it. I know all music is subjective, but I kind of thought more people would be raving about it, no? :o
 
[email protected] starless!

You guys are crazy for not liking Kill Uncle, his voice, the music, it's not 'autobiographical' :confused:, etc. It's personal and tells a story- I consider it a hidden gem, I wish Moz liked it more.

It kills me a little every day to read all about Years of Refusal, not having heard it. I hope you'll all want to talk again about the same stuff after it's actually released. I expect to be linked to a lot of things. :o:rolleyes:;)
 
Poppy Full said:
I have to agree with you, I think his lyrics are certainly different these days, and I can't help but prefer the older lyrics.

Having said that, I think the "Life is nothing much to lose..." bit in 'Mama Lay Softly on the Riverbed' is one of the most beautiful lyrics to pass Morrissey's lips in recent years, I can't get enough of it. I know all music is subjective, but I kind of thought more people would be raving about it, no? :o
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I agree that the chorus of "Mama..." is beautiful - one of his best recent lyrics, and a great melody. But he sandwiches it between verses full of his typical whinging about the evils of "pigs in grey suits" and "uncivil servants" and such and it completely dulls the effect. I still like the song, but it could have been so much better.
 
it may not be brilliant but i cant understand how some people consider this as average! obviously there's some songs i like more but moz's work is always anything but average, right? what really suprises me in YOR is moz's voice and how he puts it in some songs... for instance, in "its not your birthday anymore" i got myself thinking like "wow, is that morrissey's voice?!", which is great. after so many years, it just feels so good to come across little things like this.. don't you think?
 
i consider it average at all. I was not expecting much at all with this album, tbh, but it's definately great. his voice sounds so rejuvenated, and the production is much better than on Ringleader. there isn't a constant hiss on this album
 
Guys, I understand that some feel the album is average and a few don't like it but most of us, who voted at least, agree it's a great album. Please aknowledge that :) -not everyone thinks the album is average or crap - as I said to vauxhall, Viva Hate for me is not a top Moz album -and I'm sure most disagree- it's all a highly personal and subjective matter.

It's nice to discuss ponts of view and we don't have to agree on everything, I enjoyed my previous conversation with Vauxhall although we have distinct feelings about YoR.

So here's a suggestion to the posters who keep repeating over and over and over again that they don't like it and its crap and Moz should retire:we got your point but is highly unlikely that by repeating your opinion to death it will become the consensus, so why not open a thread to discuss your favorite albuns?
 
justme said:
Guys, I understand that some feel the album is average and a few don't like it but most of us, who voted at least, agree it's a great album. Please aknowledge that :) -not everyone thinks the album is average or crap - as I said to vauxhall, Viva Hate for me is not a top Moz album -and I'm sure most disagree- it's all a highly personal and subjective matter.

It's nice to discuss ponts of view and we don't have to agree on everything, I enjoyed my previous conversation with Vauxhall although we have distinct feelings about YoR.

So here's a suggestion to the posters who keep repeating over and over and over again that they don't like it and its crap and Moz should retire:we got your point but is highly unlikely that by repeating your opinion to death it will become the consensus, so why not open a thread to discuss your favorite albuns?
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This is a strange request on an open discussion board. Why would you single out the people who aren't happy with the record and tell them that they should be quiet? What about the people who keep saying over and over and over again that it's a masterpiece? Would you like them to open up a thread to discuss their least favorite albums, since they are just saying the same thing over and over and over again too? Isn't the point here to discuss our opinions about Morrissey, the good and the bad?
 
Looking at it in a different light, there weren't any songs that I didn't like. So overall, great album.
 
Comtesse said:
I agree that the chorus of "Mama..." is beautiful - one of his best recent lyrics, and a great melody. But he sandwiches it between verses full of his typical whinging about the evils of "pigs in grey suits" and "uncivil servants" and such and it completely dulls the effect. I still like the song, but it could have been so much better.
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When I first heard that the album was to be titled "Years of Refusal," I already had expectations that the album would be interesting - lyrically, anyway. I can only speak for myself in saying that while the album is not a complete bore (or "crashing bore", ha ha), it is the kind of album Morrissey can do in his sleep when he is not dreaming about frolicking in the meadow with pompadoured livestock.

I think we can all agree that there was a definite jump from album to album in his earlier solo days, positive or negative - no question that going from "Your Arsenal" to "Vauxhall and I" was a great change in direction, a positive one. When he said at that point that it was his best album ever, I believed it. I liked some of "Ringleader.." but the key moments were mostly when Morrissey did something with an atmospheric, picturesque feel - Life is a Pigsty, Dear God Please Help Me. Those songs are not copies of say, Speedway or Lifeguard Sleeping Girl Drowning but they exhibit similar qualities that I associate with the best of Morrissey's work - emotional music with a lyrical flair. When Last I Spoke to Carol is alright; Black Cloud had potential but when you tell me Jeff Beck is guesting on it, that should not translate to 30 seconds of note bends. Years of Refusal feels hurried, rushed - very cut-and-paste. "Ooh, this needs a quirky sound effect.. okay, now repeat the "oh oh ohhhhh oh ohhhhh" that you sang in that other song but in a different key.."

I enjoy a rocker like everyone else - however, it's my opinion that for the most part, "Years of Refusal" could have been better and more thought-out - as it stands now, if you replaced Morrissey's voice (a definite, definite plus on YoR) with say Chad Kroeger of Nickelback, you would outright say the album wasn't all that special.
 
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