Worst Michael Jackson Single

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
For me, it's a failure in the art that un-deifies an artist. Morrissey became fallible for me when Hulmerist came out and I saw the video for November Spawned a Monster. That should've been comedy (and doubtless it was for the Henry Rollinses of the world), but in my view it wasn't. I idolized John Lennon when I was a kid, too, but the disappointment wasn't Revolution 9; it was hearing Whatever Gets You Thru the Night.

I know what you mean about worship, though, and not wanting to be disappointed in the person. It's true that Lennon had some disgusting personal traits. Objectively speaking, Paul the vegetarian is better than John who wasn't, but my mind can't be pried from how godlike cool John appeared to me as an adolescent Beatlemaniac, in the old interviews and pictures. It's strange, but John, because he had the better songs and persona and aesthetics, is still somehow my favorite Beatle, even though Paul is ethically more righteous. Sometimes reason just doesn't compel, and coolness covers a multitude of sins. And that's a bit scary. Personally I can't see the appeal of a Donald Trump or a Michael Jackson or an Osho, but I understand the inability to think rationally when idolatry takes hold.
art, like poetry, is amoral. and for me it's the triumph of art when you cant tell the difference between comedy and seriousness.
 

Aubrey McFate

Burn down the disco
art, like poetry, is amoral. and for me it's the triumph of art when you cant tell the difference between comedy and seriousness.

This is something to think on. But what about Morrissey? He has some very funny lyrics, and he also has some deathly serious ones. Meat Is Murder is beautiful because it's so confrontational and condemnatory. The singer is deathly serious about his subject. It's artful in its daring, too. Bob Dylan sang "I'll stand over your grave 'til I'm sure that you're dead," but he aimed that one at the fat cats atop the military-industrial complex, which the multitude could cheer him for—an easy target, compared to Morrissey, who directed his moralizing at the multitude itself. I think that can be the triumph of art, too: "the voice of one crying in the wilderness, saying 'repent.'"
 

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
This is something to think on. But what about Morrissey? He has some very funny lyrics, and he also has some deathly serious ones. Meat Is Murder is beautiful because it's so confrontational and condemnatory. The singer is deathly serious about his subject. It's artful in its daring, too. Bob Dylan sang "I'll stand over your grave 'til I'm sure that you're dead," but he aimed that one at the fat cats atop the military-industrial complex, which the multitude could cheer him for—an easy target, compared to Morrissey, who directed his moralizing at the multitude itself. I think that can be the triumph of art, too: "the voice of one crying in the wilderness, saying 'repent.'"
you think meat is murder beautiful. i imagine to some people who arent on board with it's narrative, it might seem a bit cheesey in its confrontation and condemnation. it's lyrics too: "the turkey you fancifully fry", for instance.
if you are on board with it's narrative, then it may seem powerful and stirring. but does powerful and stirring equal art?
to me, art happens in moments that "catch" (for example, ivan (i think) in the brothers karamazov telling his brother "remember i came back twice!") or when new spaces are created in our way of thinking, or when seemingly opposing ideas or feelings are blurred so that you can no longer tell them apart: comedy/seriousness, good/evil, violence/serenity, etc. leonard cohens "if it be your will" is a great work of art because of the violence of the lyrics "in our rags of light/all dressed to kill/ and end this night/ if it be your will" combined with the serene and submissive sound, and i always think when they show explosions and scenes of chaos on tv they should play pie jesu to accompany them.
im not really sure why deathly serious would equal good art

as for michael jackson being comical and absurdist in his attempt to convey a "bad" image, i dont think you understand michael jackson or the context of his videos. michael NEVER tried to convey a bad image. he didnt even like doing the pepsi commercial, because he didnt want kids drinking pepsi. what he meant to convey was a new idea of bad: someone who, through their commitment to excellence and precision, could take on anyone and win and who, therefore, you damn well better be afraid of. and for a while michael, because of his excellence and precision, really did rule the world, making him the baddest of bad. but, like, he wasnt ACTUALLY bad, as in, he wasnt robbing people, and sexually harassing people, and doing drugs, and beating people up and that kind of thing, which, of course, would've been totally novel and deserving of being taken seriously.
 

Aubrey McFate

Burn down the disco
you think meat is murder beautiful. i imagine to some people who arent on board with it's narrative, it might seem a bit cheesey in its confrontation and condemnation. it's lyrics too: "the turkey you fancifully fry", for instance.
if you are on board with it's narrative, then it may seem powerful and stirring. but does powerful and stirring equal art?

I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't on board with its narrative when I first heard it, and it nevertheless had a profound effect on me, to the extent that I stopped eating meat. I find it visceral and emotional. Your point is taken, though: as evidenced by the many eaters of meat on this Morrissey forum, the song is obviously considered cheesy, or at the very least, defective in persuading.

Only a minor correction, but it's "the flesh you so fancifully fry," whereas the turkey is what you "festively slice." Personally I don't find these lines cheesy at all. I think they are good poetry: they conjure up a warm, rosy Norman Rockwell veneer, which is immediately ruined by the cold and solemn refrain, "it is murder." The grinning families slicing into their holiday roasts are revealed to be ghouls. I don't know if the young Morrissey liked Schopenhauer, but the effect is redolent of Schopenhauer's line, "verily, this is world is a hell: human beings are the devils, and animals the souls they torment."

to me, art happens in moments that "catch" (for example, ivan (i think) in the brothers karamazov telling his brother "remember i came back twice!") or when new spaces are created in our way of thinking, or when seemingly opposing ideas or feelings are blurred so that you can no longer tell them apart: comedy/seriousness, good/evil, violence/serenity, etc. leonard cohens "if it be your will" is a great work of art because of the violence of the lyrics "in our rags of light/all dressed to kill/ and end this night/ if it be your will" combined with the serene and submissive sound, and i always think when they show explosions and scenes of chaos on tv they should play pie jesu to accompany them.
im not really sure why deathly serious would equal good art

I think deathly serious equals good art if it rouses you out of complacency. Wouldn't that qualify as a "catch"?

as for michael jackson being comical and absurdist in his attempt to convey a "bad" image, i dont think you understand michael jackson or the context of his videos. michael NEVER tried to convey a bad image. he didnt even like doing the pepsi commercial, because he didnt want kids drinking pepsi. what he meant to convey was a new idea of bad: someone who, through their commitment to excellence and precision, could take on anyone and win and who, therefore, you damn well better be afraid of. and for a while michael, because of his excellence and precision, really did rule the world, making him the baddest of bad. but, like, he wasnt ACTUALLY bad, as in, he wasnt robbing people, and sexually harassing people, and doing drugs, and beating people up and that kind of thing, which, of course, would've been totally novel and deserving of being taken seriously.

I don't understand. Michael Jackson didn't want kids drinking Pepsi, so he did a Pepsi commercial to convey a new idea of "bad"?

I have no idea how many children in the 80s chose to drink Pepsi due to Michael Jackson's paid recommendation, but probably there were a few. The only thing I remember about the Pepsi commercial was that his hair famously caught fire during the filming, and the common punchline was to imitate Michael Jackson screeching in his girly voice about his hair being on fire. I think by that time his public persona was already outrageous enough that he was not being taken altogether seriously, even if a lot of people still liked his music.
 

Fake C

Measured, Found Wanting
The Pepsi commercials Jacko did were pretty epic but maybe did not age well because of some later issues with public perception. The idea of him having to escape not only the press but his own adoring fans was super on brand for the mythical public persona he was focused on and which is really his greatest creation, far more than the actual music which could be seen as a sort of necessity to generate income.
Lots of people create an image to sell a product but I think in his case the image was the product. It’s just that you need something tangible to sell.
 

Fake C

Measured, Found Wanting
Has Marc Almond had too much plastic surgery or is that how he looks. Chris’ Covid gear reminds me of Kanye’s recent gimp suit looks. Who wore it better?
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Fake C

Measured, Found Wanting
Lindsay Lohan got married to some dude who isn’t really that rich. Thoughts and prayers for the guy’s accountant.
 

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
im sad you deleted your post, dave-o. i wanted to say "see where talking to light housework gets you?!" you think she'll just be grateful that SOMEONE is talking to her, but no. rather than trying to have a meaningful exchange for once in her life she'll use you talking to her as an opportunity to try to steer the conversation into her going on endlessly about being raped and how her sister tried to kill her and russell brand stalked her, etc etc etc while hoping you say "oh my what a victim you are!" and be in endless thrall to her victimhood and hard-done-by-ness while also acknowledging how wildly irresistible she must be.
 

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
I can understand you being upset for being so blatantly used though. Really I can.
 

Fake C

Measured, Found Wanting
I thought that post about Steve Wright being axed by the BBC was going to be a cranky complaint with Morrissey being upset someone was fired for some xenophobic comment or sexual abuse scandal. Pleasantly surprised!
 

rifke

26% descended from the great teutonic tribes
I thought that post about Steve Wright being axed by the BBC was going to be a cranky complaint with Morrissey being upset someone was fired for some xenophobic comment or sexual abuse scandal. Pleasantly surprised!
you bored, dave-o? lonely now that you and yer bestie light housework aint on speaking terms?
 
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