Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
If it was plain he would have written "don't vote" - there are other options - he does want world peace to be your business. He's anti-war as "there would be no war" makes clear.
World Peace Is None of Your Business: album, single questions
- Thread starter goinghome
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If it was plain he would have written "don't vote" - there are other options - he does want world peace to be your business. He's anti-war as "there would be no war" makes clear.
I don't see how there's meaningful difference between Don't vote and every time you vote. You are partaking in corruption. But Hey, that's just me..
I really do wonder how Thoroughgoing his anti-war sentiments are in the current conflicts. And whether that calculus has changed given current events. that point is only to say that some of these lyrics written 9 years ago and very directly might not have aged so well Or indeed been particularly compelling political countermetery to begin with.
Malarkey
no pasarán 🌹
The difference is, they are voting & he doesn't say don't.
I don't see why he would suddenly decide war is great - he was still against it after the Manchester bomb.
JerryCan
Well-Known Member
Can't it just be that he's just despairing at it all? Politics and war. It just all goes on despite all the words and deeds.
People earnestly try to get you to have hope and engage, give you their vote. Then nothing comes of it. They just screw you over for another 5 years.
It was just so different to hear something crashingly cynical for a change. He does go on to list all his troubles with officialdom etc so maybe that's all that's fuelling his malaise.
People earnestly try to get you to have hope and engage, give you their vote. Then nothing comes of it. They just screw you over for another 5 years.
It was just so different to hear something crashingly cynical for a change. He does go on to list all his troubles with officialdom etc so maybe that's all that's fuelling his malaise.
Exactly. I'm Finnish, and as you know, Soviet Union tried to invade Finland in the Second World War the same way it is now attacking Ukraine. Both of my grandfathers spent years of their youth fighting that war, one of them lost an eye in firefight. So I have found I Bury the Living personally offensive, because my ancestors didn't really have the choice of not partaking in that war. Or if the whole of Finland had done so, we would be a part of Russia now. So the form of pacifism Morrissey advocates -- if there were no soldiers, there would be no wars -- is a luxury, a beautiful dream for those who have never really had to fight aggressors. Sooner or later we all would be living under some kind of dictatorship.
JerryCan
Well-Known Member
Yes Finland's experience is a constant warning to us all. It seemed to take Putin's antics to make the world remember what had gone before.
There are some great anti-war songs out there. Surely it's great to channel emotions towards an ideal, to try to reject something so awful? To help remind inept politicians of the results of their failure and the hapless public who vote for them? To try to persuade youth to understand something that is more than just a simple career option. The consequences to others and themselves.
There are the obvious go-to songs like Lennon's Imagine - remember the flack he received as a rich successful pop star suggesting things could be different. I felt IBTL was a difficult listen at first, but I now set it along with Donovan's Universal Soldier and Eric Burdon's Sky Pilot - all powerful songs. It's coda about how the war just keeps going says it all (although it could just be a reference to him and Johnny's falling out).
Respect to your grandfathers and their sacrifice. Of course when T72s eventually crash through my garden I hope I will do more then just dust down my vinyl and turn up the volume.
I watched the whole Ukraine horror unfold with it's sad predictability. I'm expecting something similar eventually with China and it's threats to Taiwan. Here in the UK the same failed PM who was cossetted by Putin's cash and who tried to allow China to enmesh themselves into our country's infrastructure has just skipped back into Number 10. I despair.
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
Thousands and thousands of musicians have written songs as detailed, criticising war and violence and their merchants, and I imagine there have always been people somewhere taking issue with lyrics, for 'disturbing the peace.' or whatever. That's how it is. All the same, the preference for being alive and intact still chimes.
Thanks for the articles with information about the plight of the WPINOYB album, from Billboard, Stereogum, and Slicing Up Eyeballs. They do echo recent record run-ins, particularly with Capitol still being involved.
Recently I've been involved in a friend's independent book publishing project. Aspects are transferrable to the record release process. Contact with a dedicated marketing company led me to draw some conclusions about how these endeavours typically pan out.
- Especially for unknown artists, sales are not guaranteed even with an advertising package.
- The cost of promotion is worth it only if the payee can afford to gamble the money.
- Free content marketing includes writing blog posts and articles for magazines related to the content, always ending with links to the item for sale. Selling is not easy for newbies.
- For an extra fee, an experienced marketing company typically has ready access to many suitable outlets, and prevents being slowed down by the learning curve.
- A marketing company should have templates on their websites and elsewhere where articles, reviews, videos etc relating to each product can be put to aid visibility.
- The more prior connections an artist has, the higher their chances of finding audiences.
- Having pre-existing relationships with journalists, and being willing to cultivate such, helps with persuading the right media people to list, review and promote a product. (thankfully my friend ticks this box)
- Some form of launch party, like Dirk Bogarde asserted he attended for BOT, is recommended.
Morrissey has the exclusive benefit of world fame. Switching to indie release of music could be a big leap for someone used to the record company treatment, and it could initially feel humiliating and stressful. But Morrissey's form suggests he likes to be involved in every aspect anyway, and relishes the small details of artwork, blurbs down to font, decisions about promotion and the rest. Having himself briefly practiced music journalism, and being unusually au fait with this whole territory, he would know what to do. Taking back control over decisions he was half-taking anyway only to be thwarted, could actually make paths smoother for him. It could be an awfully big adventure!
Musical artists at all career stages are apparently turning to the independent route and enjoying its advantages - https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60051802 Musicians without a record deal can hire dedicated distribution companies such as TuneCore to put songs onto services like Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube for a flat fee, without affecting ownership of master recordings while having 100% of the royalties returned to the musician when their songs are streamed. Those quoted for the Beeb article who achieved success through this approach said no other marketing was needed. More alternatives are creating a record label or signing to a smaller indie label. In an increasing number of cases, musicians are realising that these strategies allow them to steer clear of dreaded brakes major labels can all of a sudden put on them and their dreams and ambitions.
Another feature of music business these days is the fact that profits are often greater from merchandise than from music - https://futureparty.com/music-merchandise-concerts/
This would also stand to Morrissey, whose merch is in steady global demand.
It is a big ask, at this stage, trying to manage a mostly new band and a tour that seems destined for unfortunate accidents. But like folk around here say, what is there to lose, if the majors have been exhausted, with a backlog of 3+ albums' worth of tunes fans repeatedly say they crave? He could probably do a better job than those companies, if he has time, supports in place, advice from peers end so on. Locating a replacement music talent manager with compatible instincts, in addition to the tour manager, could really calm the waters, right the ship, and reset the compass.
It'd be nice if posters here of some familiarity with this world (Juan Dulces? Musician? Thewlis? Johann de Witt?...) and with goodwill towards Moz, continued this discussion and corrected any misconceptions or errors of mine, for our own improved understanding and in the unlikely event someone from Moz' party swings by.
According to the BBC article: "It's no secret that major labels are being outpaced by the independent sector. In 2020, indie labels and self-releasing artists saw their revenues grow by 27%, compared to an overall market growth of 7%.
In the UK, the sector represents 26% of the market, a figure that's grown by an average of 1% every year since 2017.
Globally, the indies' share of the music market is at an all-time high of 43.1% - worth a not-too-shabby $9.8bn (£7.19bn), according to MIDiA Research."
Maybe it's time. Wouldn't it be going back to his roots anyway? Come home, Morrissey!!
Thanks for the articles with information about the plight of the WPINOYB album, from Billboard, Stereogum, and Slicing Up Eyeballs. They do echo recent record run-ins, particularly with Capitol still being involved.
Recently I've been involved in a friend's independent book publishing project. Aspects are transferrable to the record release process. Contact with a dedicated marketing company led me to draw some conclusions about how these endeavours typically pan out.
- Especially for unknown artists, sales are not guaranteed even with an advertising package.
- The cost of promotion is worth it only if the payee can afford to gamble the money.
- Free content marketing includes writing blog posts and articles for magazines related to the content, always ending with links to the item for sale. Selling is not easy for newbies.
- For an extra fee, an experienced marketing company typically has ready access to many suitable outlets, and prevents being slowed down by the learning curve.
- A marketing company should have templates on their websites and elsewhere where articles, reviews, videos etc relating to each product can be put to aid visibility.
- The more prior connections an artist has, the higher their chances of finding audiences.
- Having pre-existing relationships with journalists, and being willing to cultivate such, helps with persuading the right media people to list, review and promote a product. (thankfully my friend ticks this box)
- Some form of launch party, like Dirk Bogarde asserted he attended for BOT, is recommended.
Morrissey has the exclusive benefit of world fame. Switching to indie release of music could be a big leap for someone used to the record company treatment, and it could initially feel humiliating and stressful. But Morrissey's form suggests he likes to be involved in every aspect anyway, and relishes the small details of artwork, blurbs down to font, decisions about promotion and the rest. Having himself briefly practiced music journalism, and being unusually au fait with this whole territory, he would know what to do. Taking back control over decisions he was half-taking anyway only to be thwarted, could actually make paths smoother for him. It could be an awfully big adventure!
Musical artists at all career stages are apparently turning to the independent route and enjoying its advantages - https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60051802 Musicians without a record deal can hire dedicated distribution companies such as TuneCore to put songs onto services like Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube for a flat fee, without affecting ownership of master recordings while having 100% of the royalties returned to the musician when their songs are streamed. Those quoted for the Beeb article who achieved success through this approach said no other marketing was needed. More alternatives are creating a record label or signing to a smaller indie label. In an increasing number of cases, musicians are realising that these strategies allow them to steer clear of dreaded brakes major labels can all of a sudden put on them and their dreams and ambitions.
Another feature of music business these days is the fact that profits are often greater from merchandise than from music - https://futureparty.com/music-merchandise-concerts/
This would also stand to Morrissey, whose merch is in steady global demand.
It is a big ask, at this stage, trying to manage a mostly new band and a tour that seems destined for unfortunate accidents. But like folk around here say, what is there to lose, if the majors have been exhausted, with a backlog of 3+ albums' worth of tunes fans repeatedly say they crave? He could probably do a better job than those companies, if he has time, supports in place, advice from peers end so on. Locating a replacement music talent manager with compatible instincts, in addition to the tour manager, could really calm the waters, right the ship, and reset the compass.
It'd be nice if posters here of some familiarity with this world (Juan Dulces? Musician? Thewlis? Johann de Witt?...) and with goodwill towards Moz, continued this discussion and corrected any misconceptions or errors of mine, for our own improved understanding and in the unlikely event someone from Moz' party swings by.
According to the BBC article: "It's no secret that major labels are being outpaced by the independent sector. In 2020, indie labels and self-releasing artists saw their revenues grow by 27%, compared to an overall market growth of 7%.
In the UK, the sector represents 26% of the market, a figure that's grown by an average of 1% every year since 2017.
Globally, the indies' share of the music market is at an all-time high of 43.1% - worth a not-too-shabby $9.8bn (£7.19bn), according to MIDiA Research."
Maybe it's time. Wouldn't it be going back to his roots anyway? Come home, Morrissey!!
I think a lot of what you say is conceptually feasible, but I'm really uncertain about the idea that Morrissey merchandise is in steady global demand. I think outside of major heavy hitters like Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, boygenius, Harry Styles etc. no one really moves merchandise at a scale that is, or would be a significant aspect of their overall income and revenue. I mean the fact is Moz is and has been putting out merchandise through Mporium – which has a global reach in the sense that the merchandise could conceivably be shipped anywhere – I don't know if that's the same as a steady global demand. Merchandise is also really tricky in the day and age of Red Bubble, Etsy and every enterprising and interested fan making their own unofficial T-shirts and merchandise.This would also stand to Morrissey, whose merch is in steady global demand.
The other thing I would say is that I've always gotten a sense that for Moz a big reason he wants the institutional infrastructure support the label offers is precisely because of insurance and assistance with touring costs. I think we can all agree that most artists make the lion's share of their money on the road and that even for the heavy hitters I mentioned above, selling millions and millions of records is not itself a path to success or financial stability for the artist or the label in these times. It's all about nearly constant touring, concert films, and that kind of thing. And to his credit, Morrissey has always done that, cancellations and false starts aside
I do think it's fair to wonder which kind of venues, what size, and which geographic regions he should pursue at this point in his career, whether it it is likely that he will gain a substantial influx of new fans on the back of promised or forthcoming albums – or even the early 2000's rereleases that we all seem to want .
I think all of that plays into both his viability as the talent on a label roster, and the barriers in front of him making a really successful, financially comfortable reality as an independent artist – as appealing as that all would be for us, and as straightforward as that would make music releases in comparison the quagmire that we have now.
Ironically I think his peak global or at least international demand, came around the release of the autobiography – the single most successful piece of work he probably put out in his entire career, all of his own, no co-writers, tour managers are record companies to satisfy there though I'm sure the publisher made a hefty amount of money as well. That he leveraged his autobiography to be published under the "Penguin Classics imprint speaks to the height of his power at that particular moment for that particular project.
But even that was not sustained – even remotely when it came to the release of "List of Lost". Whatever one thinks of its merits as a fictional novel it was very likely by any fair and objective reckoning, a failure particularly when compared to Autobiography. Rightly or wrongly, publishing companies like labels are always looking for improved success, not simply sustained success of the prior project, and I think it's fair to assume List of the Lost did not sell nearly as well – anywhere – as autobiography did.
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goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
Some relevant points also made on the BOT rights/Rebel thread - https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...-rights-to-bonfire-of-teenagers.151699/page-2
T
trans
Guest
the vote line just seems to underline the contrary conundrum of being complicit by the action of voting. the guilt you can feel about compromising in order to do some good with it or simply to prevent an even worse outcome for yourself and the world by preventing a worse candidate than the one you were voting for. the guilt you can feel when the person you did vote for does something that costs people there lives perhaps in a war can be intense. same can be said and has been for paying taxes. i agree that if he wanted to say dont vote than he would have and feeling pulled apart by your feelings intentions needs and the choices presented to you is a very human predicament and one that i could see morrissey feeling very upset by as he seems to feel deeply especially when it comes to guilt. also makes for a good song about moral complexity. its ridiculous that people read it as anything else
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
There were ups and downs, and variations in demand, and mishaps among triumphs. That's pretty normal. The music market is a massive ever-shifting continuum.
Speaking of which, as well as recording and distributing, pr and marketing are part of the package, such as companies like https://www.vampandfade.com/ carry out.
I suppose there was always piracy but the digital world is apparently another order of bandit country again. In some cases, streamed music is being copied by AI and resold without credit or payment - https://www.hotpress.com/music/bad-...ty-rights-we-need-ai-legislation-now-22996357
It's so bad that people are designing software to combat online art theft by AI - https://www.truthdig.com/articles/empowering-artists-to-fight-back-against-ai/
Every rose has its thorns
Yes. Manhead Merch is the company with which Morrissey is working to do Merch/Music Sales in the US, and the UK store is listed as "powered by SANDBAG LTD/MFL. So it seems plausible that Moz could aware of/or has explored these options and has chosen for whatever reason not to go more fully into the indie infrastructure you describe. It's easy for all of us to speculate/hope. but I would be surprised if Moz hasn't considered this, and decided to keep after the label release world that has sustained his entire 40-year career. Neither approach is free of pitfall
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
Interesting. Also, you just jogged my memory, about seeing Whores in Retirement listed as agents for various merch, which according to discogs is what "Morrissey's jokingly named rights/copyright handling identity & for art credits'!
He's way ahead of us all; been at it from since he was a nice kid who wouldn't do you no harm!
Yeah. I remember seeing that name I think on the concert film releases – Who Put the M in Manchester specifically – and I always assumed it was a video production/licensing/intellectual property holding company. I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is far out I had head of all us – I think some folks with some rational experience in the recording and publishing industry might have some ideas he some ideas he hasn't thought of yet but I think he probably has a pretty strong command of his own preferences and the reasons why. Heck if Amanda Palmer indeed reached out all those years ago about crowdfunding – and she is fairly successful at it – you probably got a good peek behind the curtain. Success to those independent or self released artists look a lot different the large capacity to words and that kind of thing and they typically require more concerted effort to personally connect with fans, signed merchandise behind the scenes to her journal or something like that, relative intimacies that Moz might not choose to sell or market.
goinghome
you must not tamper with arrangements
That's it; exploring options, taking skills and everything into account.
It's nearly a year ago that Rebels Without Applause was released. I imagine an artist can probably not get away with releasing a single like that, without much forewarning or fanfare, too often. Getting the message out that music can be expected probably matters. Maybe something vague and mysterious first, then a clue, then a taster, then a date and name, and boom! It drops! Is working out details of such a strategy a marketing job, done, I suppose in consultation with the artist and management? Generally Morrissey seems to have insisted in participating in these types of decisions, but as you say, having the full brunt of doing so without professional support seems a large ask of an artist. Time will reveal all!
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