Will The Pope Resign?

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Dave

Guest
There are many stories coming out about the current Pope knowingly allowing child sexual abuse. His defenders say this is a smear campaign, but it's pretty hard to defend his actions. It's not as if it was something that was overlooked, and we can think he didn't know. I almost want to say he is guilty of the abuse himself, by covering up for these priests and allowing them the opportunity to continue. In this case, the pope allowed a priest to get away with molesting deaf boys, who are already overcoming an obstacle that can isolate them.

Vatican axed trial for priest accused by deaf boys



VATICAN CITY – The Vatican on Thursday strongly defended its decision not to defrock an American priest accused of molesting some 200 deaf boys in Wisconsin and denounced what it called a campaign to smear Pope Benedict XVI and his aides.

Church and Vatican documents showed that in the mid-1990s, two Wisconsin bishops urged the Vatican office led by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger — now the pope — to let them hold a church trial against the Rev. Lawrence Murphy. The bishops admitted the trial was coming years after the alleged abuse, but argued that the deaf community in Milwaukee was demanding justice from the church.

An American protester in Rome on Thursday called the Murphy case an "incontrovertible case of pedophilia."

Despite the extensive and grave allegations against Murphy, Ratzinger's deputy at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith ruled that the alleged molestation had occurred too long ago and that Murphy — then ailing and elderly — should instead repent and be restricted from celebrating Mass outside of his diocese.

The official, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone — now the Vatican's secretary of state — ordered the church trial halted after Murphy wrote Ratzinger a letter saying he was ill, infirm, and "simply want to live out the time that I have left in the dignity of my priesthood."

The New York Times broke the story Thursday, adding fuel to a swirling scandal about the way the Vatican in general, and Benedict in particular, have handled reports of priests raping children over the years.

On Thursday, a group of Americans who say they were sexually abused by clerics staged a press conference outside St. Peter's Square in Rome to denounce Benedict's handling of the case and gave reporters church and Vatican documents on the case.

Afterward, Italian police detained four Americans for 2 1/2 hours because they didn't have a permit for the news conference and suggested they get a lawyer in case a judge decided to press charges, the Americans said.

"We've spent more time in the police station than Father Murphy did in his life," Peter Isely, the Milwaukee-based director of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said after his release.

Speaking at the earlier press conference, Isely called the Murphy case the most "incontrovertible case of pedophilia you could get."

"The goal of Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, was to keep this secret," he said, flanked by photos of others who say they were abused and a poster of Ratzinger. "We need to know why he (the pope) did not let us know about him (Murphy) and why he didn't let the police know about him and why he did not condemn him and why he did not take his collar away from him."

The Vatican issued a strong defense in its handling of the Murphy case. The Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano said there was no cover-up and denounced what it said was a "clear and despicable intention" to strike at Benedict "at any cost."

The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, issued a statement noting that the Murphy case had only reached the Vatican in 1996 — some 20 years after the diocese first learned of the allegations. He also said Murphy died two years later — in 1998 — and that there was nothing in the church's handling of the matter that precluded any civil action from being taken against him.

In fact, police did investigate the allegations at the time and never proceeded with a case, Lombardi noted. He said in the statement that a lack of more recent allegations was a factor in the decision not to defrock Murphy and noted that "the Code of Canon Law does not envision automatic penalties."

Murphy worked at the former St. John's School for the Deaf in St. Francis from 1950 to 1975. His alleged victims were not limited to the deaf boys' school. Donald Marshall, 45, of West Allis, Wisconsin, said he was abused by Murphy when he was a teenager at the Lincoln Hills School, a juvenile detention center in Irma in northern Wisconsin.

"I haven't stepped in a church for some 20 years. I lost all faith in the church," he told The Associated Press in an interview Thursday. "These predators are preying on God's children. How can they even stand up at the pulpit and preach the word of God?"

Church and Vatican documents obtained by two lawyers who have filed lawsuits alleging the Archdiocese of Milwaukee didn't take sufficient action against Murphy show that as many as 200 deaf students had accused him of molesting them, including in the confessional, while he ran the school.

While the documents — letters between diocese and Rome, notes taken during meetings, and summaries of meetings — are remarkable in the church officials' repeated desire to keep the case secret, they do suggest an increasingly determined effort by bishops, albeit 20 years later, to heed the despair of the deaf community in bringing a canonical trial against Murphy.

Ratzinger's deputy, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, though, shut the process down after Murphy wrote Ratzinger a letter saying he had repented, was old and ailing, and that the case's statute of limitations had run out.

"I have just recently suffered another stroke which has left me in a weakened state," he wrote Ratzinger. "I have repented of any of my past transgressions, and have been living peaceably in northern Wisconsin for 24 years. I simply want to live out the time that I have left in the dignity of my priesthood."

"I ask your kind assistance in this matter," he wrote the man who would be pope within a decade.

According to the documentation, in July 1996, then-Milwaukee Archbishop Rembert G. Weakland sent a letter seeking advice on how to proceed with Murphy to Ratzinger, who led the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith from 1981 until 2005, when he was elected pope.

Weakland explained that he was writing because he had only recently learned that the reason Murphy stopped working in 1975 was because he had been accused of soliciting sex in the confessional, one of the gravest sins in canon law.

Weakland received no response from Ratzinger, and in October 1996 convened a church tribunal to hear the case.

In March 1997, Weakland wrote to the Vatican's Apostolic Signatura, essentially the Vatican high court, asking its advice because he feared the statute of limitations on Murphy's alleged crimes might have expired.

Just a few weeks later, Bertone told the Wisconsin bishops to begin secret disciplinary proceedings against Murphy according to 1962 norms concerning soliciting sex in the confessional, according to the documents.

But a year later, Bertone reversed himself, advising the diocese to stop the process after Murphy wrote to Ratzinger. Bertone suggested that Murphy should instead be subject to "pastoral measures destined to obtain the reparation of scandal and the restoration of justice."

The archbishop then handling the case, Bishop Raphael Fliss, objected, saying in a letter to Bertone that "I have come to the conclusion that scandal cannot be sufficiently repaired, nor justice sufficiently restored, without a judicial trial against Fr. Murphy."

Fliss and Weakland then met with Bertone in Rome in May 1988. Weakland informed Bertone that Murphy had no sense of remorse and didn't seem to realize the gravity of what he had done, according to a Vatican summary of the meeting.

But Bertone insisted that there weren't "sufficient elements to institute a canonical process" against Murphy because so much time had already passed, according to the summary.

Weakland, likening Murphy to a "difficult" child, then reminded Bertone that three psychologists had determined he was a "typical" pedophile, in that he felt himself a victim.

But Bertone suggested Murphy take a spiritual retreat to determine if he is truly sorry, or otherwise face possible defrocking.

"Before the meeting ended, Monsignor Weakland reaffirmed the difficulty he will have to make the deaf community understand the lightness of these provisions," the summary noted.

The documents contain no response from Ratzinger.

The documents emerged even as the Vatican deals with an ever-widening church abuse scandal sweeping several European countries. Benedict last week issued an unprecedented letter to Ireland addressing the 16 years of church cover-up scandals there. But he has yet to say anything about his handling of a case in Germany known to have developed when, as cardinal, he oversaw the Munich Archdiocese from 1977 to 1982.

After Murphy was removed from the school in 1974, he went to northern Wisconsin, where he spent the rest of his life working in parishes, schools and, according to one lawsuit, a juvenile detention center.

Previously released court documents show Weakland oversaw a 1993 evaluation of Murphy that concluded the priest likely assaulted up to 200 students at the school.

Weakland resigned as archbishop in 2002 after admitting the archdiocese secretly paid $450,000 to a man who accused him of sexual abuse.
 
I don't expect he would. But I can't see the Church recovering any lost authority or respect if he doesn't.
But don't they have convenient illnesses and sudden deaths for the Liabilities, or am I thinking of another organisation? :confused:

Hmmmmm, if I was rude to a customer at work I'd risk the sack. Why has he got away with this for so long? :(
 

nightingale+therose

...brush me daddy-o
Murphy — then ailing and elderly — should instead repent and be restricted from celebrating Mass outside of his diocese.
Murphy wrote Ratzinger a letter saying he had repented, was old and ailing, and that the case's statute of limitations had run out.
....
But Bertone suggested Murphy take a spiritual retreat to determine if he is truly sorry, or otherwise face possible defrocking.

Good to see they're taking the matter seriously!:confused:


SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said after his release.
i can't believe there is a network for survivors of sexual attacks by priests - thank f^ck my mum never took me to pineapple regularly!

.
 

mauve21

Long time participant
Everyone hate me for this, but I actually believe the whole
catholic church should be destroyed for it's vile
atrocities visited upon it's believers.........
 

penfoldsfive

resident alien
all this recent wave will serve to officially establish this corrupted and misguided church as a haven and safe place for pedophiles. this institutional crime will be addressed and punished accordingly.
 

Hellie

Lost
Rigormortis will set in first.:rolleyes:
 
D

Dave

Guest
Catholic abuse scandal edges closer to pope

Reporting from Los Angeles and London - First, it was an American problem. Then, an Irish problem. But as the scandal of child sexual abuse by Catholic priests has rocked continental Europe in recent weeks, observers inside and outside the church have begun to recognize that it is now very much a Vatican problem, one that is creeping ever closer to Pope Benedict XVI.

"The focus now is on Benedict," the U.S.-based National Catholic Reporter wrote Friday in a strongly worded editorial on the scandal. "What did he know? When did he know it? How did he act once he knew?"

Revelations of abuse in Germany, particularly in the Munich archdiocese while Benedict was the archbishop, have seemingly put a lid on the argument by some in the Roman Catholic Church that sexually abusive priests were an American aberration, the result of lax morals and overblown news coverage in the United States.

They also have brought the crisis to Benedict's doorstep, with the news that, as archbishop of Munich, he approved the transfer of an abusive priest from another jurisdiction, and that later, as the church's top doctrinal official, he was in a position to know about a Wisconsin case in which the church failed to defrock a child-molesting priest.

The Vatican has responded sharply to new developments, defending Benedict against any implication that he failed to act against abusive priests.

A Vatican spokesman reacted swiftly Friday when the New York Times reported that Benedict, when he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, had been copied on a memo notifying him that Father Peter Hullermann was being reassigned to pastoral work even as Hullermann was undergoing therapy for pedophilia. Hullermann was later convicted of molesting boys.

Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, dismissed the article as "mere speculation," and referred reporters to a statement by the Munich archdiocese saying Ratzinger had not been aware that the priest had returned to pastoral work.

The Vatican also reacted sharply to an earlier New York Times article, which said Ratzinger, as the church's top doctrinal official in the 1990s, had failed to act against the Wisconsin priest, who was believed to have abused as many as 200 deaf boys from the 1950s to the 1970s.

In that instance, as with the Munich case, church officials said the matter had been handled by a subordinate, not by Ratzinger.

Benedict has accepted the resignation of one of five Irish bishops who offered to quit over the scandal in their country, and he apologized to Irish Catholics in his pastoral letter sent to the church in Ireland last week. But he has yet to publicly demand any resignations or to comment on the scandals roiling his native Germany, much to the consternation of some Catholics there.

"If the pope wants to solve the problem himself by writing letters to every country where there's a crisis, he will never be finished,"said Christian Weisner, a spokesman in Munich for the We Are Church reform movement.

From 1981 until his election as pope in 2005, Ratzinger headed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, where he was responsible for upholding doctrinal purity in the church. In 1985, the first rumblings of the sexual abuse crisis occurred in the United States when a Louisiana priest pleaded guilty to 11 counts of molestation. As more cases came to light through the 1990s and 2000s, the Vatican attitude was clear: Something was wrong with America.

In 1993 Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls spoke out about the crisis in the United States. "One would have to ask if the real culprit is not a society that is irresponsibly permissive, hyper-inflated with sexuality [and] capable of creating circumstances that induce even people who have received a solid moral formation to commit grave moral acts," he said

No one is singling out the United States that way now. And the pope's statements suggest that he sees the gravity of the situation. His expressions of deep remorse go well beyond anything said by his predecessor, John Paul II.

The pope "is seen as one 'who gets it' when it comes to the horror of clergy sexual abuse," Archbishop Timothy M. Dolan of New York wrote in a blog this week. "Who can forget his forthright references to this scourge at least half a dozen times in his visit to our country nearly two years ago, and his moving meeting with victim-survivors? And now we have his blunt, realistic pastoral letter to Ireland on the crises there. He must be asking, as we all do, 'When will it all end?' "

Father Thomas J. Reese, a Jesuit priest who is a senior research fellow at Georgetown University, said of the pope:

"If you look at some of his early quotes, it's clear that he didn't quite get it, nor did anyone else in the church at that time. But he did grow. . . . He learned and came to understand the seriousness of this problem a lot faster than a lot of other people in the Vatican, including Pope John Paul II. And he's been a lot better on this than John Paul II."

But Benedict has yet to satisfy many European and American Catholics, who are demanding greater transparency and stronger action against those in the hierarchy whom they accuse of coddling abusive priests and covering up the problem.

The stakes are high, the National Catholic Reporter suggested in its editorial.

"We now face the largest institutional crisis in centuries, possibly in church history," the independent Catholic newspaper said. "How this crisis is handled by Benedict, what he says and does, how he responds and what remedies he seeks, will likely determine the future health of our church for decades, if not centuries, to come."

David Quinn, former editor of the Irish Catholic newspaper and a religious affairs columnist in Dublin, Ireland, said, "There really is a bush fire raging and it's gone beyond his capacity to put it out. The thing is just cascading at an incredible rate."

[email protected]
 

JoanOfArc

Hidden
I dont think so.And why,its not his fault that paedophiles join the priesthood.I like Ratzinger,he was close friend of Karol Wojtyla,and chief of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(previously known as Inquisition).Personally i think that celibacy should be abolished because it was done only so Church money will not go to the wives and children of the priests after their death-priests were told to divorce or leave priesthood.Now i think that Church is rich enough to allow priests to marry.It would stop paedophiles join the priesthood i think.
 
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Mars_Rover

Junior Member
I dont think so.And why,its not his fault that paedophiles join the priesthood.I like Ratzinger,he was close friend of Karol Wojtyla,and chief of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(previously known as Inquisition).Personally i think that celibacy should be abolished because it was done only so Church money will not go to the wives and children of the priests after their death-priests were told to divorce or leave priesthood.Now i think that Church is rich enough to allow priests to marry.It would stop paedophiles join the priesthood i think.
Women priests and leadership would stop it too. Not only are women far less likely to offend, they're less apt to cooperate with the conspiracy of silence when abuses occur. Nearly all the big corporations that have been brought down due to ethical transgressions were brought to light by female whistleblowers.
 
D

Dave

Guest
I dont think so.And why,its not his fault that paedophiles join the priesthood.I like Ratzinger,he was close friend of Karol Wojtyla,and chief of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(previously known as Inquisition).Personally i think that celibacy should be abolished because it was done only so Church money will not go to the wives and children of the priests after their death-priests were told to divorce or leave priesthood.Now i think that Church is rich enough to allow priests to marry.It would stop paedophiles join the priesthood i think.
It's his fault that he protects them. Before this looked like isolated cases, and now it looks like the church condones it. Like many other men in power he will not resign due to the scandal because he places his own interests above those of his organization and the people he supposedly leads. The pope may as well be a pedophile, if he's not. He has allowed men to abuse children, and has provided them the cover and the continued opportunity.
 

JoanOfArc

Hidden
Well im just wondering why"The New York Times" wrote about it just before Easter-what a coincidence.And yes this guy was ill,he died 4months later.It was long time ago,why this case is brought up now?And why those protesters feel such urge to protest before Easter?Why didnt they protest in Feb?lol:)
 

JoanOfArc

Hidden
Women priests and leadership would stop it too. Not only are women far less likely to offend, they're less apt to cooperate with the conspiracy of silence when abuses occur. Nearly all the big corporations that have been brought down due to ethical transgressions were brought to light by female whistleblowers.
yes i agree with proposal of female priesthood.But i think that priesthood doesnt make people a paedophile-its just case of paedophiles going to a position where people will not ask questions why they arent married,why they spend time with children etc.If a paedophile stood all day in front of playground full of kids police would arrest him immediately,but well when he will become a priest he would be able to do things without raising suspicions.
 
D

Dave

Guest
Well im just wondering why"The New York Times" wrote about it just before Easter-what a coincidence.And yes this guy was ill,he died 4months later.It was long time ago,why this case is brought up now?And why those protesters feel such urge to protest before Easter?Why didnt they protest in Feb?lol:)
Your arguments here are weak. You want to:
1. Think that the newspaper is at fault for reporting the news.
Believe that there is a conspiracy against the Church.

There may be, but there is a conspiracy INSIDE the Church which is hurting it far more. There is no proper or improper time to talk about these things.

2. You want to seek sympathy for this man that caused emotional pain to many children in a calculated fashion.

There is a healing process and part of it is confronting the abuser. It's for the victim's good. If you want to see it as punishment, that's fine too. It can serve as a warning to others.

3. It happened a long time ago.
It did and it has affected the victims their whole lives.

4. Again with Easter.
Easter in the Christian viewpoint is about a sacrifice for sin. It is also a time of rebirth. It's symbolic that the Christian event is associated with this Pagan event. In either case, there is not a better time. There needs to be a death of this conspiratorial policy in the Church, so that the image can be reborn.

And that isn't likely to happen because the Pope doesn't seem to believe in what he represents. He is another powerful man clinging to power. The idea of him being infallible is completely lost now, if you could believe it in the first place.
 

the_smiths

New Member
The official, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone — now the Vatican's secretary of state — ordered the church trial halted after Murphy wrote Ratzinger a letter saying he was ill, infirm, and "simply want to live out the time that I have left in the dignity of my priesthood."

Oh well, we'll just let him off then. WHAT THE f***?

Unbelievable in this day and age, the Catholic church is obviously still untouchable and above the law.

I said it before - Priest = Pedo.

Any parent who lets their child anywhere near is Priest if just f***ing mental.


:mad::mad::mad:
 

the_smiths

New Member
Everyone hate me for this, but I actually believe the whole
catholic church should be destroyed for it's vile
atrocities visited upon it's believers.........

Agreed.

It's simply a breeding ground and safe house for pedos and perverts.


f*** THEM ALL!
 
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