Why was Morrissey never integrated?

[Aileen92]

Why do you think Morrissey was never integrated with the other manchester bands of the day like New Order, Happy Mondays, and so on...? Why didn't he hang out with them?
Do you think he was left aside because of his sexual ambiguity? Were the other musicians homophobic? Or it was just because Mozzer was more left wing/progressist and the others more violent/racist/conservative?
What do you think? I read your answers...

 

[Crisstti]

Why are you equating conservative with racist and violent?

 

[Raphael Lambach]

Why do you think Morrissey was never integrated with the other manchester bands of the day like New Order, Happy Mondays, and so on...? Why didn't he hang out with them?
Do you think he was left aside because of his sexual ambiguity? Were the other musicians homophobic? Or it was just because Mozzer was more left wing/progressist and the others more violent/racist/conservative?
What do you think? I read your answers...

I guess it was because Moz never wanted to be integrated

 

[Cornflakes]

I think it's definitely that they were all racist and into conspiracy theories, pictures of skinheads and so on, whereas Morrissey is very left wing and can't stand any of that stuff.

 

[Crisstti]

Peter Hook did say in some interview on YouTube that he eventually became friends with all Smiths members other than Johnny.

 

[Ryan]

Because everyone is against him, remember?

 

[SuedeMoz]

Why do you think Morrissey was never integrated with the other manchester bands of the day like New Order, Happy Mondays, and so on...? Why didn't he hang out with them?
Do you think he was left aside because of his sexual ambiguity? Were the other musicians homophobic? Or it was just because Mozzer was more left wing/progressist and the others more violent/racist/conservative?
What do you think? I read your answers...

I think it was as simple as Morrissey seeing The Smiths as superior to all those bands (and probably projecting that attitude). The feeling of not wanting to hang out (or integrate) was probably mutual. I say that in regard to Morrissey specifically. We know Jonnhy was friendly with Bernard Sumner and other musicians during The Smiths.

 

[Gray Fruit]

Elsewhere on this site is a recently posted podcast interview with Richard Boon who was Buzzcocks' manager and worked for Rough Trade. You should give that a listen. He basically insinuates that Morrissey had an odious, unpleasant personality and therefore had no friends.

 

[Crisstti]

He did have friends.

 

[Crisstti]

Yep, he had friends. He just didn’t want mates, it seems.

What do you mean by mates? More casual friendships?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

What do you mean by mates? More casual friendships?

Yeah, casual bros, doing bro things.

And there’s something to be said for putting your focus and energy into things that are important to you.

 

[Eldritch]

The whole "Madchester" thing was born out of bands combining elements from dance and rock music, and Morrissey didn't really care for dance/techno/house/whatever. The overnight success of Happy Mondays and Stone Roses happened at the same time as Morrissey put out Ouija Board, which was his first widely badly reviewed release ever, which must have rankled him too. And the first Electronic single came out then too, so at that moment Morrissey was for the first time seen as a yesterday's man with his penchant for old school guitar pop/rock. Much of this was also centred on Hacienda and Factory, which also made him an outsider.

 

[SuedeMoz]

He did have friends.

We know he had friends... but the question was why wasn't he friends with other Manchester bands?

 

[Crisstti]

We know he had friends... but the question was why wasn't he friends with other Manchester bands?

I know. I was responding to the comment just above mine. I probably should have quoted it.

 

[Amy]

Why do you think Morrissey was never integrated with the other manchester bands of the day like New Order, Happy Mondays, and so on...? Why didn't he hang out with them?
Do you think he was left aside because of his sexual ambiguity? Were the other musicians homophobic? Or it was just because Mozzer was more left wing/progressist and the others more violent/racist/conservative?
What do you think? I read your answers...

Aside from the music - bands like that were party animals, drugs and groupies were everywhere, that isn't who Morrissey is. He is introverted, he didn't touch drugs or even drink much in those days, he didn't even socialise with the other Smiths or the crew, he just didn't enjoy going out. I can't imagine someone like that raving in a warehouse, really.

I don't doubt that at the time he was seen as boring, square, old before his time etc but he stuck to his guns. I've always found Bernard (and Johnny's) stories about their drunken adventures to be tiresome, like it's an achievement to be vomiting into a bag at 6am or whatever. Johnny said his house was "party central" in the 80s but when you read between the lines of what that entailed, it sounds like a succession of people he barely knew dossed in his house for free food and booze and left him to clean up the mess. Moz was his own man, he wasn't going to bother with that shit.

 

[Eldritch]

I've always found Bernard (and Johnny's) stories about their drunken adventures to be tiresome, like it's an achievement to be vomiting into a bag at 6am or whatever. Johnny said his house was "party central" in the 80s but when you read between the lines of what that entailed, it sounds like a succession of people he barely knew dossed in his house for free food and booze and left him to clean up the mess. Moz was his own man, he wasn't going to bother with that shit.

Very true. I was very disappointed with Bernard's autobiography Chapter and Verse, because he spends so much ink describing his drunken escapades that albums like Brotherhood and Technique are barely even mentioned in the book. If one wants to read about music, Stephen Morris is the only New Order member capable or willing to write about that as his two books prove.

 

[Surface]

Very true. I was very disappointed with Bernard's autobiography Chapter and Verse, because he spends so much ink describing his drunken escapades that albums like Brotherhood and Technique are barely even mentioned in the book. If one wants to read about music, Stephen Morris is the only New Order member capable or willing to write about that as his two books prove.

Agree, Bernard’s was very poor, both of Stephens are excellent and Hooky’s are hilarious

 

[Surface]

Aside from the music - bands like that were party animals, drugs and groupies were everywhere, that isn't who Morrissey is. He is introverted, he didn't touch drugs or even drink much in those days, he didn't even socialise with the other Smiths or the crew, he just didn't enjoy going out. I can't imagine someone like that raving in a warehouse, really.

I don't doubt that at the time he was seen as boring, square, old before his time etc but he stuck to his guns. I've always found Bernard (and Johnny's) stories about their drunken adventures to be tiresome, like it's an achievement to be vomiting into a bag at 6am or whatever. Johnny said his house was "party central" in the 80s but when you read between the lines of what that entailed, it sounds like a succession of people he barely knew dossed in his house for free food and booze and left him to clean up the mess. Moz was his own man, he wasn't going to bother with that shit.

I used to go into Manchester every weekend through that period of time and saw most of the members of Manchester bands at places like the Boardwalk, Hacienda and Dry but never saw Morrissey.

 

[Rufusindigo]

Elsewhere on this site is a recently posted podcast interview with Richard Boon who was Buzzcocks' manager and worked for Rough Trade. You should give that a listen. He basically insinuates that Morrissey had an odious, unpleasant personality and therefore had no friends.

I'm guessing here (as are all of us), but if M is perceived as having an 'odious, unpleasant personality', then that did not arise out of nowhere. Our personalities are constructed through a dialogue between internal and external forces, both biological and social. M is clearly 'different' in many positive ways - he's clever, articulate, introverted, was extremely good looking, bookish, of Irish extraction and of ambivalent sexuality. It's also possible there are some neuro diverse issues at play here (which I am in no way describing as negative). The environment that he grew up in - 50s/60s working class Manchester - would have been hostile to many of these qualities as he did not fit in, which is exactly why his lyrics resonated with so many. After the rise of The Smiths, he was then dealing with the occasionally hostile and someimes homophobic music press while still relatively young and his identity still in flux. So I wonder if his 'unpleasant' personality is the result of a doubling down of defense mechanisms, creating an armour which has now calcified?

 

[Amy]

I'm guessing here (as are all of us), but if M is perceived as having an 'odious, unpleasant personality', then that did not arise out of nowhere. Our personalities are constructed through a dialogue between internal and external forces, both biological and social. M is clearly 'different' in many positive ways - he's clever, articulate, introverted, was extremely good looking, bookish, of Irish extraction and of ambivalent sexuality. It's also possible there are some neuro diverse issues at play here (which I am in no way describing as negative). The environment that he grew up in - 50s/60s working class Manchester - would have been hostile to many of these qualities as he did not fit in, which is exactly why his lyrics resonated with so many. After the rise of The Smiths, he was then dealing with the occasionally hostile and someimes homophobic music press while still relatively young and his identity still in flux. So I wonder if his 'unpleasant' personality is the result of a doubling down of defense mechanisms, creating an armour which has now calcified?

I have never heard of anyone describing M in those terms in any book, interview, anywhere. What most seem to say is that he enigmatic, aloof... somewhat removed from the social element of the industry and private, and that doesn't always go down well.

I remember a Smiths era story where someone said that because M didn't socialise with the crew or the sound techs or anything, they couldn't really relax around him - they were always on eggshells. He was quiet and awkward, and there was a sense that only Johnny understood him so if you wanted something, best to go through Johnny first.

Some people just do not understand introverts and they take this stuff as a personal snub when it isn't at all. Especially when you're a "pop star" and you're expected to be on display, I think that aloof quality can look like rudeness. There have been so many stories on here where M has been cornered by showbiz types in a pub or in a supermarket trying to get on with his day and has ended up giving them a fake phone number and doing a runner. That's totally understandable and relatable to me, not odious.