Why is Morrissey not vegan?

CrystalGeezer

My secret's my enzyme.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. Certainly, sustained changed requires a good deal of effort, at least initially. It can be intimidating, most people have to ease into it.


Has anyone figured that out? Meatless Monday, whenever I hear about it is almost always sold under health or environmental benefits. Vegetarianism/Veganism as well to a lesser extent. Animal welfare(rights can be a dirty word) almost has to be a separate issue.

I was thinking some sort of prime time coverage during sporting events (I realize funding is an issue here) or whatever is hot on television or before movies of an ad campaign that is dark yet clever, that exposes the practices sort of graphically, but using a medium that isn't REAL. Like an animated illustration of the event from the cows perspective, a cartoon cow who we empathise with, then quick fade to black screen details that this is a reality. I dunno. But it can't be real footage, it;s too harsh and humans turn their brains off. As much as you want them to see it and be appalled, they, we, have a defense mechanism against the unpleasant. You have to sneak them the truth.
 

Ticky Tacky

New Member
Hmm, I immediately thought of The Fox and the Hound, and children's animation in general. Yeah, an animated short or series of shorts -- I could see that done subtly.
 

nightingale+therose

...brush me daddy-o
A similar video has been released by Mercy for Animals, with abused cows in Texas. It strikes me as odd, the recurring media fueled outrage when these videos are released, yet no real change is made. I'd think if anything, a strong emotional reaction, would do it. Which, of course leads to the Morrissey question....
Ticky Tacky, thanks for posting that outcome info. And 'the fox and the hound' Disney film killed me when I was a lad. Not seen it since but I do remember it got me thinking about the wrongness of killing and hunting. I think I was only around 6 or 7 when I saw it.
 

Rowntree

New Member
I think whoever you are you have to make your own calls on what it's ok and not ok to eat. I'm a vegetarian but not a vegan and I gave meat eating up pretty much because of farming practices where I used to live. If you're discussing the pros and cons of farming practices then it all depends upon where you get your dairy produce from I guess. Although admittedly there are animal welfare issues that relate to dairy consumption - veal most notably - it's quite easy to avoid dairy products that have come from a farm like the one in the link.
 

xfranklyx

no hope no harm
.
Does anyone know what happened to the cows and the man from that video? okay, it's silly to ask what happened to the cows... they are born, they suffer extreme pain and torture then they are murdered, but was the man that was jumping on the face of the calfs and kicking the cows in the face jailed for his actions?

Last I heard he was free of all charges and is now trying to become a cop. I am glad I don't live in that town.

True.
Most of the time not true. They do tend to stand in 2-3 inches of mud, and are in confinements much smaller than a lovely field, but generally can turn around. And they're usually easily trained to walk up to the milking stalls because it means blessed relief from their overfull mutated gigantic udders.
yes true, but most dairy is coming from factory farms and most of the photos I've seen they are in small stalls with barely enough room to move.
either way, they shouldn't be in any stall.
They don't get beaten for not making enough milk, there'd really be no point because it doesn't promote milk production and can decrease meat/hide quality. They can get killed at the end of the cycle if they're a poor producer or have udder problems.
I have unfortunately seen it. The workers get so pissed off that they take it out on the cows.

Here is a new video that surfaced last week that was mentioned a few post before. Also in some states they are trying to make it illegal and a felony to take undercover videos and photos on farms. What are they trying to hide!?

*this one is also VERY graphic*
 
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not_me_not_I

New Member
A better question which has been asked on this site many times before, is why do so many Morrissey fans still eat meat? I find it infinitely more upsetting that somebody in a Morrissey t-shirt would buy a Big Mac than the thought of Morrissey eating an omelette. This is THE issue.

"So, eh, it’s very difficult. Sometimes you see people whom you would least expect to be interested, and they have a lifestyle which is everything that you oppose, and yet they’re very influenced by something you’ve done. And you think, well, how does it connect? Where’s the connection?” - Morrissey, April 2011
 

Theo

Active Member
This is actually not true anymore. Fanta used to contain fish gelatine, but 2009/10 they stopped using it. Fanta now can be consumed even by vegans :)


I realize that Fanta is now the fave drink of SoLowers because Morrissey was spotted sipping on one, or whatever.

But isn't it madness for people to seriously sit around in a forum and act like they are morally superior for being "vegans" while also assuring each other that buying 12 pack after 12 pack of Fanta orange pop is just terrific?

It seems to me that if you were real about shit, and you wanted an orange flavored fizzy drink, you'd get some natural sparkling water and some fresh oranges and put them together.

But to buy a pack of The Coca-Cola Corporation's Fanta orange pop and sit around feeling all high and mighty? Go kill yourselves.

I don't intend to be belligerent, but some of you vegans are hard to take. You'll sit there and point fingers at someone who goes fishing and catches a trout and cooks it, while you're sipping on a can of Fanta orange pop? I'm not gonna do the research, but I'm betting if I investigated what all went into the production of Fanta orange pop and its packaging I'd find that you have no legs to stand on vs. that man who catches a fish and cooks it up (that is, that man you call a "murderer"). Just thinking about the production of the alumunim cans Fanta is sold in alone, you have no legs to stand on.

Well, here, I'll spend 10 seconds googling aluminum cans. I'm not gonna check on all the facts in this result; I'm sure the truth is something similar:

.

Aluminum cans are created and thrown away in large numbers. The environmental ramifications of those two facts are significant. Mining, the refining process, and the eventual discarding of aluminum all take a toll on our environment.

Mining Effects

Bauxite ore is mined to create aluminum. The mining causes deforestation, erosion, polluted water sources and a threat to animal life.

Aluminum Refining Effects - Electricity

Aluminum refining requires a large amount of electricity, usually generated by hydro-electric plants. The man-made reservoirs destroy large areas of forest and disturb natural river and lake ecosystems.

Aluminum Refining Effects - Chemical Processing

Aluminum refining relies on chemical processing to extract the metal from the ore. The by-products are caustic and can pollute both ground and surface water.

Aluminum Cans by the Numbers
According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), aluminum cans are the largest source of aluminum in the waste stream. In 2008, the United States generated almost two million tons of aluminum packaging and discarded 2.7 million tons into the waste stream.

Link


While I can comprehend and admire people becoming vegetarians for the variety of reasons people make that choice, the puritans who call themselves "vegans" are some of the most annoying douchebags you can ever come across.
 
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Media Whore

Nowhere. Everywhere.
Just thinking about the production of the alumunim cans Fanta is sold in alone, you have no legs to stand on.

What if you buy it in bottles? Do you have a knee to kneel on?

As a disclaimer, I think Fanta is horrible based on taste alone. And I dont think any sort of advertising/promotion of a vegetarian lifestyle or about animal cruelty in mainstream media would make a massive difference because of one fatal assumption that some people are making; not everyone shares your views on the value of animals. Many people don't care that a calf is being kicked in the face (or whatever that video shows - I didn't watch it). People see animals as lower in the food chain and shit, life sucks for some but such is the way of the world.
 

I am a Ghost

New Member
I realize that Fanta is now the fave drink of SoLowers because Morrissey was spotted sipping on one, or whatever.

But isn't it madness for people to seriously sit around in a forum and act like they are morally superior for being "vegans" while also assuring each other that buying 12 pack after 12 pack of Fanta orange pop is just terrific?

It seems to me that if you were real about shit, and you wanted an orange flavored fizzy drink, you'd get some natural sparkling water and some fresh oranges and put them together.

But to buy a pack of The Coca-Cola Corporation's Fanta orange pop and sit around feeling all high and mighty? Go kill yourselves.

I don't intend to be belligerent, but some of you vegans are hard to take. You'll sit there and point fingers at someone who goes fishing and catches a trout and cooks it, while you're sipping on a can of Fanta orange pop? I'm not gonna do the research, but I'm betting if I investigated what all went into the production of Fanta orange pop and its packaging I'd find that you have no legs to stand on vs. that man who catches a fish and cooks it up (that is, that man you call a "murderer"). Just thinking about the production of the alumunim cans Fanta is sold in alone, you have no legs to stand on.

Well, here, I'll spend 10 seconds googling aluminum cans. I'm not gonna check on all the facts in this result; I'm sure the truth is something similar:



Link


While I can comprehend and admire people becoming vegetarians for the variety of reasons people make that choice, the puritans who call themselves "vegans" are some of the most annoying douchebags you can ever come across.

It's all Barack Saddam Hussein Osama Bin Pinko Commie Fag Laden Obama's fault.
 

stipey

Half a World Away
Fanta is horrible, fish gelatine, or not.

I agree. I am from and live in Philadelpha. I'm a soda drinker and when I came to England in 2005 the coke tasted terrible to me. It seemed most convenience shops only sold Fanta. I'm mad that I now know I drank fish gelatine.
 

Mars_Rover

Junior Member
Fanta is horrible, fish gelatine, or not.

Fun fact: the current Pope enjoys Orange Fanta.

Sorry, back to topic: why is Morrissey not vegan? I dunno, why is Morrissey not heterosexual? You can't always get what you want.
 
D

DAVIE

Guest
I wish these vegan talks would stop....I eat meat and I don't give a flying shit! At the end of the day, you can either restrict yourself to everything in this ONE LIFE or try everything! Vegans, I'm afraid...your own lifestyles is the only thing you will change, not the world.
 

shawnxvx

funemployment!
I think the answer to this burning question is that it's his choice, and he's decided not to be a vegan.

P.
and the award for most logical answer goes to... thanks for keeping this board somewhat sane uncleskinny.

... but to be vegetarian is ENOUGH.

A better question which has been asked on this site many times before, is why do so many Morrissey fans still eat meat? I find it infinitely more upsetting that somebody in a Morrissey t-shirt would buy a Big Mac than the thought of Morrissey eating an omelette. This is THE issue.
i am sorry you feel this way, but it's been proven time and time again, it's not really enough. even being vegan is not enough, but giving up the convenience of dairy is really not that hard.

i find an omelette just as appalling as a big mac. what is THE issue again? eating animals vs. eating parts of them? i am lost.

You don't murder animals by eating dairy products . If you eat meat you do.
sorry dear, this is very wrong. please do some research.

Morrissey has done so much for the animal rights movement it seems almost disrespectful to scrutinize his personal dietary choices, no?
see 'shame's response to this statement.

Murderers should be demonised.
saying things like this(in this particular argument) will only get you into trouble. has morrissey taught us nothing?

Whilst I don't intend to 'scrutinse' or 'attack', as my query has been so mildly described, I think his (undeniably strong) history of work and support for animal rights actually means it makes sense to 'scrutinise his personal dietary choices'. It'd be fitting rather than 'disrespectful'. Morrissey is always (massively) condemning people for the exploitation of animals, but to occupy that platform whilst potentially possessing dubious 'dietary choices' could make him hypocritical.

It is therefore rather respectful to 'scrutinise his choices', because it would help to clear up any confusion about possible hypocrisy - even though I never intended anything more than to raise the question of 'oh, he's not vegan. I wonder why?'
yes.

I could not watch that video. I get so upset and emotional - angry - and I'm at work, so its probably best that I don't watch it anyway. And you're right. If he can treat a poor innocent animal that way, he would definitely treat a human being like that. I feel the same as Morrissey in that respect, tho. I don't see the difference...abuse is abuse. I am trying to become a vegan now, but it's hard when all I eat is pasta and salads. I'd love to eat a raw veggie diet only! Its a goal I hope to reach by the end of the year.
i know many vegans who only eat pasta, so the salads are a great addition. haha

i am going to try to eat mostly raw as well.

...Wherever you (or Morrissey) find yourself on the Vegan / Veggie / Meat-free-on-a-Monday spectrum you can at least be satisfied that you contributing to the reduction to animal suffering. And that's good enough for me.

Dave
obviously doing something is better than doing nothing, but if you put yourself in the animals place, does the statement "good enough for me" really work out? just a thought.

I have no idea at the moment how to gently raise awareness of the atrocious parts while effecting change.
i know i'll sound like a jerk here, but there isnt a gentle way. i feel like there only is a "here is whats going on. either you support it or you dont" way of looking at it. then again, i am often a jerk. i grew up listening to morrissey, so sue me.


I realize that Fanta is now the fave drink of SoLowers because Morrissey was spotted sipping on one, or whatever.

But isn't it madness for people to seriously sit around in a forum and act like they are morally superior for being "vegans" while also assuring each other that buying 12 pack after 12 pack of Fanta orange pop is just terrific?

It seems to me that if you were real about shit, and you wanted an orange flavored fizzy drink, you'd get some natural sparkling water and some fresh oranges and put them together.

But to buy a pack of The Coca-Cola Corporation's Fanta orange pop and sit around feeling all high and mighty? Go kill yourselves.

I don't intend to be belligerent, but some of you vegans are hard to take. You'll sit there and point fingers at someone who goes fishing and catches a trout and cooks it, while you're sipping on a can of Fanta orange pop? I'm not gonna do the research, but I'm betting if I investigated what all went into the production of Fanta orange pop and its packaging I'd find that you have no legs to stand on vs. that man who catches a fish and cooks it up (that is, that man you call a "murderer"). Just thinking about the production of the alumunim cans Fanta is sold in alone, you have no legs to stand on.

Well, here, I'll spend 10 seconds googling aluminum cans. I'm not gonna check on all the facts in this result; I'm sure the truth is something similar:



Link


While I can comprehend and admire people becoming vegetarians for the variety of reasons people make that choice, the puritans who call themselves "vegans" are some of the most annoying douchebags you can ever come across.
you do bring up some good points. however, this is how i see it. my having a different view, not a 'puritan' one, that is.

obviously someone catching and eating their food or even growing it in the backyard is way better than supporting a giant corporation like coca cola. i support any off the grid hunter and gathers over most vegans any day. none of us on here are that though. so trying to belittle vegans for drinking soda out of a can is silly. calling them out for supporting coca cola would have been better. (i.e. http://killercoke.org/)
 
D

Dave

Guest
I think the answer to this burning question is that it's his choice, and he's decided not to be a vegan.

P.
and the award for most logical answer goes to... thanks for keeping this board somewhat sane uncleskinny.

I don't see that as keeping the board sane. It's actually not logical at all. He is not a vegan because it's his choice? And I guess that would settle the matter and end the discussion. It may not be a "burning" question to Uncle Skinny but when I see the things that excite him, "Irrelevant Ex-Pop Star mentions Morrissey in passing!" or "Johnny Marr tweeted something irrelevant!" I guess we're just not interested in the same thing.

I can see that it is the type of question that would generally seem obsessive, but we are talking about a person who says that the homes of animal torture/research workers should be bombed. Of course Morrissey, who has the means, isn't going to bomb anything, but it shows an extreme position. It's kind of strange to be that extreme in that way and then not bother to have your own diet sorted out.
 

shawnxvx

funemployment!
I don't see that as keeping the board sane. It's actually not logical at all. He is not a vegan because it's his choice? And I guess that would settle the matter and end the discussion. It may not be a "burning" question to Uncle Skinny but when I see the things that excite him, "Irrelevant Ex-Pop Star mentions Morrissey in passing!" or "Johnny Marr tweeted something irrelevant!" I guess we're just not interested in the same thing.

I can see that it is the type of question that would generally seem obsessive, but we are talking about a person who says that the homes of animal torture/research workers should be bombed. Of course Morrissey, who has the means, isn't going to bomb anything, but it shows an extreme position. It's kind of strange to be that extreme in that way and then not bother to have your own diet sorted out.

logical and sane in a sense that none of us know or will unless we actually talk to moz about this. which is the only thing i want to bring up if i ever have the chance to speak with him. discussion about these things is fine, it just seems that discussions about veganism on here tend to get a bit out of hand. thats all i had in mind when referring to his post.

i actually feel like your second statement could end the discussion. i can't agree more.
 
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