Which has been the best decade for Morrissey songs?

[Saxy]

I agree with you. I think older artists are also wonderful, but in a different way. I'm not sure how I would distinguish them, exactly. Probably just a vague thing like spirit or energy. The superb "Stanley Road" is much more polished, assured, and well-crafted than "Setting Sons", but there's no contest as to which I prefer.

Perhaps the difference is that, later in their careers, musicians are on a career track. I don't mean they are money-grubbing careerists, just that, beyond a certain point, they're a brand, a mini-industry unto themselves. Pop music needs inspiration far more than technical skill.

For example, you mentioned U2. I distinctly remember them crossing a line in the late Eighties from talented amateurs to actual musicians. In interviews they'd talk about learning all the chords on the guitar and how to write "proper" songs. Certainly they continued making good music after, say, 1987, but their most exciting songs are the ones early in their career when they were just mucking about with sound. It was when they embraced the whole rock and blues traditions, and tried to become actual musicians (only Larry was a trained player), that they became both better and worse. Better from the standpoint of craftsmanship, worse in the way the music began to lack spirit and (pardon me) pop. You can see this on the much-maligned "Rattle and Hum", which is the "professionalized" version of "The Joshua Tree". They only regained their form (briefly) when they began experimenting with electronic music, that is, they went back to being amateurs for the space of an album or two.

You can more or less discern the same arc in New Order. When Barney tried to write proper lyrics for the last few albums, the songs nosedived. Zonked out of his mind on drugs, making up gibberish as he went along, he was a much better songwriter.

And to bring it back around to Morrissey, well, I've gone on the record many times with my opinion that his voice has never sounded better. Years of Refusal has some of his most technically strong work ever. Yet I still love-- and often prefer-- the older "substandard" vocals, even as far back as the early bootlegs from The Smiths' first shows.

Interesting post!

I have to say I disagree with this concept that Morrissey has somehow "sold out", or at least lost a lot of his creativity in his later work.

Maybe it makes a difference when you, as I have done, discover someone late (although i had always listened to Smiths stuff but not obsessively). I think I could look at Years of Refusal with fresh eyes rather than compare it to previous work which might make me a bit more objective when judging it.

I certainly think Morrissey's singing voice has improved and the albums are definetly better produced than the 90's stuff but I don't see this as being at the expense of anything fundamental in Morrissey's basic approach which is to wear his heart on his sleeve and see the world through the eyes of an outsider. Those two aspects of Morrissey are as clear for me to see on I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris and I'm Ok By Myself as anything from the Smiths era, even if the production is smoother and the words not quite as wrought with passion and anxiety.

You can't really blame Morrissey for getting old can you?

 

[Johan de Witt]

Partly true, but there are plenty of bands who make successful music into their 40's and beyond. I'm not a fan of either but U2 and The Red Hot Chilly Pepper have both enjoyed some of their biggest critical and commercial success in their 40's.
Paul Weller's last album (22 Dreams), made on the cusp of his 50th, was possibly the most acclaimed album of his career. It sold pretty well too. Some of Bob Dylan's recent albums have been considered to be among his best along with those by Bruce Springroll.

And so is Morrissey's You Are The Quarry. Both one of his most (if not the most) successful album of his solo-career in terms of sales, and one of his most acclaimed. And made well into his 40s. Certainly one of THE comeback-albums in recent rock history.

 

[joe frady]

yep, soz it is a bit unfunny, but it was how Moz referred to it at a couple of live shows. don't shoot the messenger!

value in these polls? well, Moz has been ramming his post-2000 material down our throats in the live shows in recent years, in the belief that it's the best stuff he's ever done (backed up by interview comments and song selection on the last singles collection).
if only he could see polls like this, he may begin to appreciate the considerable decline in quality and actually do something about it...

cheers, MozE; I was not aware that the man himself had made the reference. A rare poor quip then. Perhaps we should have a poll as to which has been the best decade for Moz quips ?

Youth makes pop music what it is. I don't say this out of a moist-eyed nostalgia for the glorious genius of youth, necessarily; half the time it's just that the young are stupid and naive enough to act with the boldness and pretension that makes pop music great. Either way, never discount youth for its own sake. It shouldn't make that much of a difference, but we all know it does.

For mighty were the auxiliars which then stood
Upon our side, we who were strong in love!
Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
But to be young was very heaven!​

Yes, youth does make pop music what it is, but that cuts the same way for the 'fan' as for the pop artist. The pop you heard when young always seems stronger and more resilient down through the years, for a myriad of social, psychological and chemical reasons. The music you hear being made now by the same artist can never have that same impact. But it might be just as great. Witness how many new 'kids' go mental for 'Who Ate Me Curry' and beyond...

 

[Mr Reynolds]

Thankfully Morrissey doesn't write with an audience pleasing agenda in mind. He couldn't care less about what 'we' think.
This is why he is still so vital and potent an artist and will remain so until he is killed crossing the road by the 137 from Streatham Hill on a wet Thursday.

For me, I see value in every album and b side. Each is unique and casts a different shade on life.

 

[Maurice E]

Thankfully Morrissey doesn't write with an audience pleasing agenda in mind. He couldn't care less about what 'we' think.

I don't really think that's the case. Morrissey was quoted recently (last year I think) as saying (with regard to new material) that 'journalists won't like it but real people will'. If anything, the reverse is the case.
Journalists have generally been pretty positive about the last three albums but we, the fans, have not been (on average) hugely impressed, especially when we compare them with his 1980's and 1990's output (see the results of this poll).
He cares deeply about his reviews and pretty much reads them all, even (to my mind, foolishly) quoting them in his between-song banter, as he did as recently as the last Brixton show...

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

You know what? I really couldn't choose. I have various favourites all the way from early Smiths, through the 90s, and right up to today with YOR.

 

[laughing_anne]

I don't really think that's the case. Morrissey was quoted recently (last year I think) as saying (with regard to new material) that 'journalists won't like it but real people will'. If anything, the reverse is the case.
Journalists have generally been pretty positive about the last three albums but we, the fans, have not been (on average) hugely impressed, especially when we compare them with his 1980's and 1990's output (see the results of this poll).
He cares deeply about his reviews and pretty much reads them all, even (to my mind, foolishly) quoting them in his between-song banter, as he did as recently as the last Brixton show...

To draw this conclusion from this poll is a sweeping generalization. This poll only asks which decade you prefer, nothing else. Just because someone prefers the Smiths songs doesn't mean they can't be "hugely impressed" with his '00 stuff too. That would be another poll altogether.

 

[Mr Reynolds]

I don't really think that's the case. Morrissey was quoted recently (last year I think) as saying (with regard to new material) that 'journalists won't like it but real people will'. If anything, the reverse is the case.
Journalists have generally been pretty positive about the last three albums but we, the fans, have not been (on average) hugely impressed, especially when we compare them with his 1980's and 1990's output (see the results of this poll).
He cares deeply about his reviews and pretty much reads them all, even (to my mind, foolishly) quoting them in his between-song banter, as he did as recently as the last Brixton show...

Morrissey has also said at various times that he writes 'what (he) would like to hear' and certainly never compromises for the sake of his audience's perceived taste (or lack of).

He likes to play a game with the audience / fans / journos too. Adopting a certain role and/or persona at various times only to later completely adopt the reverse position. Its like a bullfight. He's the matador, his adopted persona the red flag. 'We' rush toward it to get to 'him' hiding behind only to have it whipped away at the last moment and for our troubles find two spears rammed into our necks (called Ringleader & Refusal)! Oh but what an exquisite way to die...

 

[joe frady]

Thankfully Morrissey doesn't write with an audience pleasing agenda in mind. He couldn't care less about what 'we' think.
This is why he is still so vital and potent an artist and will remain so until he is killed crossing the road by the 137 from Streatham Hill on a wet Thursday.

For me, I see value in every album and b side. Each is unique and casts a different shade on life.

Huzzah to this sir: Huzzah!

Morrissey has also said at various times that he writes 'what (he) would like to hear' and certainly never compromises for the sake of his audience's perceived taste (or lack of).

He likes to play a game with the audience / fans / journos too. Adopting a certain role and/or persona at various times only to later completely adopt the reverse position. Its like a bullfight. He's the matador, his adopted persona the red flag. 'We' rush toward it to get to 'him' hiding behind only to have it whipped away at the last moment and for our troubles find two spears rammed into our necks (called Ringleader & Refusal)! Oh but what an exquisite way to die...

I'm sure SPM would just love your matador metaphor!

 

[Saxy]

I think it's common for fans that have followed an artist over a long period to feel that they have some sort of right in expecting each album to communicate with them on the same level as when they were younger. But people change and nobody can expect that Morrissey's feelings about life and music today correspond with their own.

I don't buy this idea that Morrissey is obsessed with reviews and pleasing his fans. His albums might be better produced and he might market himself a bit more vigorously than he did in the past, but The Smiths weren't exactly outside of the mainstream. Morrissey is and always has been a pop musician whose personality will always make him something of an outsider.

 

[Worm]

I have to say I disagree with this concept that Morrissey has somehow "sold out", or at least lost a lot of his creativity in his later work.

It's not that he's sold out or lost creativity (especially when you consider that a sizeable portion of his early "creativity" consisted of lifting lines from his favorite films). As I was saying, quantifying "youth" in pop music is difficult. The songs crackle with a different kind of energy. Stronger, more hopeful, more open to the idea that the world, shitty as it is, can be changed. Attuned to the present in ways older people can't be. Making new music, or at least making music as if it were new. All of that falls away as the group or artist ages.

Maybe it makes a difference when you, as I have done, discover someone late (although i had always listened to Smiths stuff but not obsessively). I think I could look at Years of Refusal with fresh eyes rather than compare it to previous work which might make me a bit more objective when judging it.

I'm sure you're right. Let's not forget that Maurice's poll isn't forcing us to say one era is good while the other two are bad. They're all good. I happen to love Years of Refusal; in fact "Something Is Squeezing My Skull" sounds as if it could have been written in Morrissey's twenties. I'm aware the "old/young" division isn't as ironclad as I'm making it sound. Just talking more generally about pop music.

You can't really blame Morrissey for getting old can you?

No. But you can blame him for not retiring.

Oops. Did I say that out loud?

 

[Worm]

The music you hear being made now by the same artist can never have that same impact. But it might be just as great. Witness how many new 'kids' go mental for 'Who Ate Me Curry' and beyond...

True!

There are lots of new fans and their responses tell us that Morrissey still has a lot of fire left. You can't really talk objectively about this stuff. 'Tisn't a science. There's no accounting for haste. Etc.

Here's the difference, for me, in a nutshell: The Smiths got their power from triumphantly marching forth to change the world; Morrissey derives his power from his heroic refusal to let the world change him. I'm guessing, for most of us, that this is the basic difference between youth and maturity. As Grant McLennan put it:

Some days you ride it hard
to stop them getting out
then comes the day you ride
to stop them getting in​

In that light I love Morrissey's recent work and identify with it just as much as I used to identify with the sun shining out of his behind. Which is better? Only Simon Cowell knows.

 

[Mr Reynolds]

'Whatever people say I am. That's what I am not.' Morrissey

 

[mikael]

^Alan Sillitoe

 

[CrystalGeezer]

He likes to play a game with the audience / fans / journos too. Adopting a certain role and/or persona at various times only to later completely adopt the reverse position. Its like a bullfight. He's the matador, his adopted persona the red flag. 'We' rush toward it to get to 'him' hiding behind only to have it whipped away at the last moment and for our troubles find two spears rammed into our necks (called Ringleader & Refusal)! Oh but what an exquisite way to die...

I foresee the next album being from his voice alone and not that of the red flag.

 

[Maurice E]

True!

There are lots of new fans and their responses tell us that Morrissey still has a lot of fire left. You can't really talk objectively about this stuff. 'Tisn't a science. There's no accounting for haste. Etc.

Here's the difference, for me, in a nutshell: The Smiths got their power from triumphantly marching forth to change the world; Morrissey derives his power from his heroic refusal to let the world change him. I'm guessing, for most of us, that this is the basic difference between youth and maturity. As Grant McLennan put it:

In that light I love Morrissey's recent work and identify with it just as much as I used to identify with the sun shining out of his behind. Which is better? Only Simon Cowell knows.

Interesting stuff but I'm not really into the more nebulous issues as to whether he has any fire left or is trying to change the world; I just wanna hear some great songs.
As a musician (kind of) when I listen to a really good song, I seek out the chords and learn to play it. I can play tons of Smiths and early Moz songs but I have very little desire to play the post 2000 stuff (with a few exceptions).
He is still writing brilliant stuff (I'd say three songs from 2009 deserve to be in his all-time top 50) but the ratio of fantastic songs to generic, plodding, indie-pop filler is depressingly low.
With the Smiths, 3/4 of the material was utterly brilliant, with early solo Moz, the ratio fell to a half, and now it's about a quarter.
So, it's not that he (and his co-songwriters) don't write fantastic stuff any more; it's just that the really great songs have become the exception...

 

[Worm]

Interesting stuff but I'm not really into the more nebulous issues as to whether he has any fire left or is trying to change the world; I just wanna hear some great songs.
As a musician (kind of) when I listen to a really good song, I seek out the chords and learn to play it. I can play tons of Smiths and early Moz songs but I have very little desire to play the post 2000 stuff (with a few exceptions).
He is still writing brilliant stuff (I'd say three songs from 2009 deserve to be in his all-time top 50) but the strike rate of fantastic stuff to generic, plodding, indie-pop filler is depressingly low.
With the Smiths, 3/4 of the stuff was utterly brilliant, with early solo Moz, the ratio fell to a half, and now it's about a quarter.
So, it's not that he (and his co-songwriters) don't write fantastic stuff any more; it's just that the really great songs have become the exception...

Oh, well, from the standpoint of the music I think saying a quarter of the songs are good is being too kind. I don't think I would care to listen to many of his recent solo songs as instrumentals. He's pushed the vocals to the front and the music is just a foundation. I mean, I guess that's a comment in itself: the music is so dull you have to assume it's because of a very deliberate choice.

 

[lainey]

I go through stages of listening to certain albums over and over again.
It's funny last winter it was all The Smiths ones, then You Are The Quarry/ Vauxhall And I/ Your Arsenal. Since Feb I can't get enough of Years of Refusal Album, I keep going back to it as well as enjoying others. Viva Hate is excellent as you know but my point is I chose the now (2000's) in the poll as it's mood dependent.
Do the same poll in the winter and see if there is a change.

 

[Mr Reynolds]

Where is this 'dull' music?

Yes, of course music is a foundation for the 'Voice' of a song, but as such it is a vital framing device and not something to just be churned out (especially not by a craftsman of Morrissey's standard). Credit him with some musical sensitivity and awareness.

Going from Who Ate My Curry through to Tears Of Renewal I can't think of a track that doesn't generate an appropriate atmosphere or texture. And as far as this nebulous 'excitement' that inspires one to drag ones paw over some strings there are some great ditties - my paw is often bashing away!

 

[Uncleskinny]

If I can be arsey and self indulgent for a moment...

80s - Viva Hate; 90s - Vauxhall; 00s - Quarry.

As for the quality - there have been two ongoing zeniths - the songwriting of both Stephen Street and Alain Whyte. When they're not involved the music has taken a dive, aside from the odd Boz gem. The words are still high quality, though, come on, you have to admit that some have become a bit samey over recent albums. But that's just me.

Peter