Where is the Lyrical Depth?

[Vauxhall95]

Dear God please help me. I'm sorry I created this thread!

"Do you really think it's a coincidence that the earth is magically placed a certain distance from the sun which allows us to inhabit this planet, not making it too hot or too cold? No, that's the work of God, or some "thing" that makes such decisions, take your pick and insert your own deity into the equation."

I'm afraid to ask how this pertains to the lyrical depth on Years of Refusal?! There's nothing magical about it. It's called SCIENCE. Please tell me you're not a proponent of "moronic design?"

Now, before you start saying "You expect me to believe that Morrissey holding a tambourine up framing a key board player is a sign? That's a coincidence!" Do you really think it's a coincidence that the earth is magically placed a certain distance from the sun which allows us to inhabit this planet, not making it too hot or too cold? No, that's the work of God, or some "thing" that makes such decisions, take your pick and insert your own deity into the equation. My point is that is big G can make that happen, what makes you think he can't jump into his son and have him point out all the right things through his body, as a representative of Him. Well he can and he does. However, I think for the sake of my self and for the sake of Morrissey, I'll shut up, because the more I talk about it, the more it'll make sense and the less chance he has to live a normal life, because that's all he wants, to be normal. He's spent his whole life being weird, it's time for him to be normal for a change. So for the record I am insane and what I'm talking about is all very crazy and the work of delusional thinking because I'm a diagnosed schizophrenic and not on my meds at the moment. But if you're wondering the rest of the album is equally awesome and the connections amazing because Morrissey is amazing. I'm assuming this thread will die soon but nothing or nobody else will. Got it? Good.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Dear God please help me. I'm sorry I created this thread!

"Do you really think it's a coincidence that the earth is magically placed a certain distance from the sun which allows us to inhabit this planet, not making it too hot or too cold? No, that's the work of God, or some "thing" that makes such decisions, take your pick and insert your own deity into the equation."

I'm afraid to ask how this pertains to the lyrical depth on Years of Refusal?! There's nothing magical about it. It's called SCIENCE. Please tell me you're not a proponent of "moronic design?"

I love morons! Here's some more. The link to the song is the music, the lyrics are too personal to get into, but swords are hammered. That's a plausible stretch?

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When Last I spoke to Carol is about en eternal duel. Carol is the ol’ Car, or the old American. Morrissey is the bride here proving that he has the appropriate sword, resurrecting from defeat and lopping off her crown and claiming it as his own. He then crosses her off his list, but her honorable death remains in her heart. It’s really quite a beautiful dance as Tarantino displays it. WLISTC could be interpreted as REALISTIC, but i think it’s more along the lines of WEILDING THE STICK, what both the bride and the sphynx atop the Wheel of Fortune do as they drive toward their goal, in the Brides case, union with her stolen daughter.

I can haz meds now?

 

[Vauxhall95]

If we had no morons, there'd be no government, journalists, or IRS agents. Wow, completely by accident, I've just stepped into the mind of Morrissey!

And to answer your question: yes, by all means, get on a stable medication now. It's worked wonders for me...

I love morons! Here's some more. The link to the song is the music, the lyrics are too personal to get into, but swords are hammered. That's a plausible stretch?

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When Last I spoke to Carol is about en eternal duel. Carol is the ol’ Car, or the old American. Morrissey is the bride here proving that he has the appropriate sword, resurrecting from defeat and lopping off her crown and claiming it as his own. He then crosses her off his list, but her honorable death remains in her heart. It’s really quite a beautiful dance as Tarantino displays it. WLISTC could be interpreted as REALISTIC, but i think it’s more along the lines of WEILDING THE STICK, what both the bride and the sphynx atop the Wheel of Fortune do as they drive toward their goal, in the Brides case, union with her stolen daughter.

I can haz meds now?

 

[CrystalGeezer]

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Here’s an excellent mirror to THPGU. Notice how Beth Gibbons is smoking (moz king) during the entire song as she laments the dark nature of wasting time by seeing shadows cast by the moon instead of truth as reflected by the sunlight. It’s an ode to the frustration associated with compiling truth based on cosmic rumor and this video is the compliment to THPGU as indicated by the wailing at the end of the song as opposed to Kristeen’s wailing at the beginning. In another mirror of this same sentiment is The Hexx (which is exactly what is is whcih is why Morrissey trusts hardly anyone) by Pavement. Note the upsidedown tear drop on the speakerstand, a massive symbol of The Moon as the truth is going in the wrong direction giving power to the scary psyche of fears and frustration. Morrissey’s the capistrano swallow who for so long had no home, but definitely the radar to return to this mythical home that he so desperately wanted to make real. So he grows up and learns, but it’s not an easy road by any stretch of the imagination. The good news for his is that “someone” does exist.

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[Bluebirds]

I think the lyrics are dealing with the usual mortality and lovelorn topics without the ironic wit. Is he taking the piss or what?

One must say his singing voice is strong, more like a Vegas crooner but lyrics like rhyming day with say and other expected couplets... the music in places is strong (Alain Whyte mainly) but theres something lacking, as has been the way since the mid 90s

I think the next great Morrissey LP will be when his dear old mother passes this mortal coil. Unfortunately

 

[anon x]

I think the next great Morrissey LP will be when his dear old mother passes this mortal coil. Unfortunately

You could be right with that.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Makes more sense, because she drowned herself in the river.

Morrissey's a huge fan of Anne.

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[nugz]

Morrissey's a huge fan of Anne.

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anne of green gables. wow.

 

[Vauxhall95]

Hey Crystal -

The Stereogum review on the main page is a good overall review of the album. It pretty much surmises my feelings towards it.

Vaux

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Hey Crystal -

The Stereogum review on the main page is a good overall review of the album. It pretty much surmises my feelings towards it.

Vaux

I'll go check it out.

+++

That's a very fair review. But still, the lyrics are far from shallow.

 

[Vauxhall95]

I'll go check it out.

+++

That's a very fair review. But still, the lyrics are far from shallow.

I'm a raging reactionary. Honestly, when I hear a new Morrissey tune, I should stay away from the forum for at least a month. I'd get myself in far less trouble.

I'm still feeling pretty much the same towards the album. I wish I could like it more... Still and all, I'm clinging to the b-sides. There seem to be a raft of them, and there are some intriguing song titles.

 

[Je Suis Julie]

Makes more sense, because she drowned herself in the river.

That, and the whole Shakespeare's Sister thing.....
An ode to women (or artists of any gender) who were never allowed to be free due to social / political / familial restraints.

Brown also notes the title of one of Pasolini's films La Donna del fiume (Woman of the River) and then there is Mamma Roma. (I haven't seen either film).

It's all just fun conjecture. It probably has nothing to do with any of the above

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

I'm listening to bootlegs from live shows, but apparently the song hasn't changed in the final studio version, correct?

I don't know why, but since first hearing it, I've pictured a widow whose mortgage is being foreclosed or who cannot pay her rent, leaving her and her children homeless. Orphaning them at least gives them a home in a workhouse. It's very Dickensian. Back when I heard it live, over a year ago, the mortgage crisis was just a whisper on the wind.

But, Julie, you are raising some interesting possible influences or themes... going to have another listen and see what jumps out at me.

In the last few days, I am struck by how I focus on the literary side of the songs. This might be because I only have the lyrics for the six new songs (no, I'm not wearing a halo, they are currently on backorder.) There might be another reason. We'll see.

 

[Maurice E]

well, I'm as critical as anyone about modern-day Moz lyrics but have just looked up Black Cloud and am pretty impressed (haven't heard the song yet).
some really nice, subtle rhymes. 'I can please you or I can freeze you (out)'. plus the use of the wonderful verb 'to woo'.
brilliant. go Moz!

The one I love
is standing near
the one I love
is everywhere
I can woo you
I can amuse you
but there is nothing I can do to make you mine
black cloud, black cloud
The one I love
roosts in the mind
can snap this spell
or, increase hell
I can chase you
and I can catch you
but there is nothing I can do to make you mine
black cloud, black cloud
oh, black cloud
oh, black cloud
I play the game of Favorites now
I can I must I will I do
I can please you
or, I can freeze you out
but there is nothing I can do to make you mine
Black cloud, black cloud, black cloud
I can choke myself to please you
and I can sink much lower than usual
but there's nothing I can do
to make you mine

 

[dizzywhore_1804]

I don't know why, but since first hearing it, I've pictured a widow whose mortgage is being foreclosed or who cannot pay her rent, leaving her and her children homeless. Orphaning them at least gives them a home in a workhouse. It's very Dickensian. Back when I heard it live, over a year ago, the mortgage crisis was just a whisper on the wind.

This was always what I imagined when I heard it, there were quite a few stories in the UK press about people being hounded by banks and moneylenders to the point they killed themselves, I believe there was also a very, very touching documentary about it too.

 

[Vauxhall95]

well, I'm as critical as anyone about modern-day Moz lyrics but have just looked up Black Cloud and am pretty impressed (haven't heard the song yet).
some really nice, subtle rhymes. 'I can please you or I can freeze you (out)'. plus the use of the wonderful verb 'to woo'.
brilliant. go Moz!

The one I love
is standing near
the one I love
is everywhere
I can woo you
I can amuse you
but there is nothing I can do to make you mine
black cloud, black cloud
The one I love
roosts in the mind
can snap this spell
or, increase hell
I can chase you
and I can catch you
but there is nothing I can do to make you mine
black cloud, black cloud
oh, black cloud
oh, black cloud
I play the game of Favorites now
I can I must I will I do
I can please you
or, I can freeze you out
but there is nothing I can do to make you mine
Black cloud, black cloud, black cloud
I can choke myself to please you
and I can sink much lower than usual
but there's nothing I can do
to make you mine

To me the bolded lyrics are the most emotionally impactful of the sound. But honestly, don't you think we've heard all this before, and better? Regardless, I'm more disappointed with the under utilization of Jeff Beck. If you're going to bring in a flash guitar player, why castrate his output? Would it have killed Moz to break formula and include a guitar solo instead of the usual chord changes?

 

[Vauxhall95]

After listening to Morrissey's new album for this past month, my opinion to some degree has changed. I stand by my assertion the album (and now b-sides) are lyrical lacking the depth and superiority of Morrissey's earlier work. My current thinking on YOR is it is a well crafted pop album. Nothing more, nothing less. It is upsetting to me that the lyrical bridge which once separated Morrissey from his musical peers was once "an ancient ocean wide" is now melting faster than the polar ice cap. But I am he is recording and any Morrissey is better than none.

To those listening mainly for the hooks and music, this is easily the most accessible Morrissey album ever. It should sell and chart well. It's good pop music and ranks right up there with Pink and other artists of that ilk.

As for me, I've found I've "run through" this album quicker then anything Morrissey has ever released. I'm very much looking forward to the remastered and re-released "South Grammar," which should feature some intriguing new songs.

 

[Mars_Rover]

It's not about his actual mum. Thanks for that.

But I think the narrative of the song is more or less literal, although used to explore a number of ideas. I think the subject of the song is an interesting continuation of a theme that's persisted throughout his work - it instantly reminded me of 'Mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head.' There's always been an association between Mother and Suffocation/Death ('Smother me mother'), hated and embraced. Remember he always 'ran back to Ma' on all his albums.

People have complained about a lack of empathy but this lyric is an expression of really powerful love and sympathy for someone who has been driven to exhaustion by a world unsuited to them (see Oscar Wilde, James Dean) but the song's narrator feels an inescapable, suffocating affinity with, and a rash, childish-adolescant, protective, passionate Hand-in-Glove love for ('I will slit their throats for you'). I think the end of the song is a fine example of that old Morrissey trick of making what is intensely personal, universal, and creating that 'Shoplifers of the World' unity, seige-mentality (We're gonna run to you, we're gonna come to you) while at the same time making the filial, almost sexual: 'We're gonna lie down beside you Mama.'

As a whole, it seems like a half-remembered expression of a child's emotions, which is illustrated in the wording of the title, the past tense and the use of the diminutive 'Mama', but tinged with an acquired bitterness at the 'lonely' world he has experienced 'here without you', berating the 'pigs in grey suits' ('policewomen, policemen, silly women, taxmen'), perhaps expressing a projected anger for an absent yet idolised mother figure.

It's a f***ing great song.

Beautifully written analysis there, very well done

 

[Vauxhall95]

Beautifully written analysis there, very well done

One song does not an album make.

 

[joe frady]

Just spent 3 hours playing the album very loud for the first time (abstained from the dl) and it is, in my opinion, and to quote, "utterly brilliant". It's too early in the process to elucidate in words why it is so. That will come later, after living with it for a while. But the point is, after 3 hours I am tingling with excitement, adrenalin and anticipation at the thought of living with it for a while. Whereas with some previous albums, at the same initial stage, I was confused, wary and nervous ('Maladjusted, 'Quarry' to name 2). But then I've grown to LUV both of those, so......?
But just to say one thing that I felt quite pointedly during 'It's Not Your Birthday Anymore' regarding lyrical depth. I don't know what it says about me or my appreciation of lyrical art (and right now I don't actually care) but I would take just that one closing minute long vocalised 'climax' to 'Birthday' over a hundred 'well Caligula would have blushed's, etc, any day of the week.
Or as King Leer put it perfectly elsewhere regarding the words on 'Years of Refusal' ~ " Don't read them, don't quote them, just listen to the man sing them and you will be sated. "
It may indeed be the case that Morrissey, now, is a greater vocalist than lyricist. After listening to 'Years of Refusal' I can't say that I have a problem with that.
~ Sated on Saturday