Where is Alain and Gary?

[international playboy]

Firstly, sorry Kewpie if this has already been asked
But where are Alain and Gary gone? Apparently Alain is having a lot of imput into the new album, but why isn't he and Gary Day in the live set up?
Also, as they were not in the picture of 'The Players' in recent Greatest Hits; i thought maybe they have moved on?

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Firstly, sorry Kewpie if this has already been asked
But where are Alain and Gary gone? Apparently Alain is having a lot of imput into the new album, but why isn't he and Gary Day in the live set up?
Also, as they were not in the picture of 'The Players' in recent Greatest Hits; i thought maybe they have moved on?

I don't think anyone really knows.
Though we do know that Alain wasn't asked to play on the ROTT tours & Gary Day became a Daddy again last year.

 

[MozIsGod]

Firstly, sorry Kewpie if this has already been asked
But where are Alain and Gary gone? Apparently Alain is having a lot of imput into the new album, but why isn't he and Gary Day in the live set up?
Also, as they were not in the picture of 'The Players' in recent Greatest Hits; i thought maybe they have moved on?

Gary Day parted ways with the band during the end of the Ringleader tour in 2006. I read that he wanted to spend more time with his family, and to work on his own project. He has since been replaced by Solomon Walker.

Alain has been busy for quite some time writing much of the new material for the upcoming album. He remains Morrissey's main songwriter, but it appears he won't get on stage anytime soon -- Morrissey continues to prefer Jesse on stage.

 

[Kewpie]

Firstly, sorry Kewpie if this has already been asked
But where are Alain and Gary gone? Apparently Alain is having a lot of imput into the new album, but why isn't he and Gary Day in the live set up?
Also, as they were not in the picture of 'The Players' in recent Greatest Hits; i thought maybe they have moved on?

[email protected]'s thread has been archived, but you can read it:
http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showthread.php?t=76185

 

[Maurice E]

Gary seems pretty keen to do the DJ thing these days (both sides of the pond) so he's obviously not sitting at home. Guess it's a lot less work than touring. Shame he's gone though. Despite the top quality musicianship of the current band, I can't help think that something's been lost in the (relatively) rapidly changing musical line-up of recent years.
There seemed to be a real cameraderie on stage back in the pre-Quarry days...

 

[Jamie]

Gary seems pretty keen to do the DJ thing these days (both sides of the pond) so he's obviously not sitting at home. Guess it's a lot less work than touring. Shame he's gone though. Despite the top quality musicianship of the current band, I can't help think that something's been lost in the (relatively) rapidly changing musical line-up of recent years.
There seemed to be a real cameraderie on stage back in the pre-Quarry days...

Absolutely everything has been lost in terms of things feeling like a cohesive group and gained in terms of cool, competent professionalism. It's a sad irony, in my eyes, considering Morrissey once rejected the notion of touring Viva Hata chiefly b/c he viewed that band as being much too much like studio musicians and not a band. And now 4/5 of his band are. I've said this before in another post, but you sadly can't even joke anymore that "everyone and their brother can get a job for Morrissey"--because it's true!!

I will continue to buck the received wisdom of many that this group is superior to either the Lads or the version of the musicians touring YATQ prior to Alain's illness, no matter how much the fawning over the new model. (Irony #2: Morrissey putting people's desire to see the return of Alain and other Lads as "hormones" - cf. the numerous teenybopperish posts citing the aesthetic merits of Solomon, Matt, and Whoever is Playing Keyboard This Week.) It has nothing to do with nostalgia or comfort--it comes down to objectively viewing his work and identifying the diminishment over time and identifying what has continued to diminish it. The corrosive influence of Jesse's songwriting - no headline here - is chiefly to blame, too. If he and Morrissey have common influences, they have done a meritorious job in hiding this fact in their output.

Don't get me wrong - I have no desire to see a return of either an original Lads line-up in its entirety or a Smiths reunion. I just want the music to sound more sympathetic to Morrissey's muse and less like corporate, modern American rock. (And this is coming from an American, no less...)

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[King Leer]

Hi,

I thought the "hormone" comment (when was that, by the way?) was a bit dismissive of Alain's contributions over so many years, although I know Morrissey was responding mainly to posts about how "hot" Alain is etc. If you'll allow me to morph into a 15-year-old for a moment -- on a very basic level, looks aside, Alain is so much cooler than Jesse.

I think Jesse is a decent b-side contributor, meaning actual b-sides, not hidden gems. I'm glad to hear reports that it'll mainly be Alain's tracks on the new record, though.

Have you heard Children in Pieces? Some are saying it's Jesse's best yet. I've resisted listening to it -- waiting for the CD single.

Absolutely everything has been lost in terms of things feeling like a cohesive group and gained in terms of cool, competent professionalism. It's a sad irony, in my eyes, considering Morrissey once rejected the notion of touring Viva Hata chiefly b/c he viewed that band as being much too much like studio musicians and not a band. And now 4/5 of his band are. I've said this before in another post, but you sadly can't even joke anymore that "everyone and their brother can get a job for Morrissey"--because it's true!!

I will continue to buck the received wisdom of many that this group is superior to either the Lads or the version of the musicians touring YATQ prior to Alain's illness, no matter how much the fawning over the new model. (Irony #2: Morrissey putting people's desire to see the return of Alain and other Lads as "hormones" - cf. the numerous teenybopperish posts citing the aesthetic merits of Solomon, Matt, and Whoever is Playing Keyboard This Week.) It has nothing to do with nostalgia or comfort--it comes down to objectively viewing his work and identifying the diminishment over time and identifying what has continued to diminish it. The corrosive influence of Jesse's songwriting - no headline here - is chiefly to blame, too. If he and Morrissey have common influences, they have done a meritorious job in hiding this fact in their output.

Don't get me wrong - I have no desire to see a return of either an original Lads line-up in its entirety or a Smiths reunion. I just want the music to sound more sympathetic to Morrissey's muse and less like corporate, modern American rock. (And this is coming from an American, no less...)

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[Int'l Playboy]

Hi,


Have you heard Children in Pieces? Some are saying it's Jesse's best yet. I've resisted listening to it -- waiting for the CD single.

where have you heard it?

 

[King Leer]

I haven't listened to it, but it's on Youtube.

where have you heard it?

 

[mozzette]

Hi,

I thought the "hormone" comment (when was that, by the way?) was a bit dismissive of Alain's contributions over so many years, although I know Morrissey was responding mainly to posts about how "hot" Alain is etc. If you'll allow me to morph into a 15-year-old for a moment -- on a very basic level, looks aside, Alain is so much cooler than Jesse.

Does anyone have the link/quote by Morrissey on this? I don't remember him commenting.

 

[vivabob]

where have you heard it?

its also in the bootleg section

Does anyone have the link/quote by Morrissey on this? I don't remember him commenting.

i dont think he has

 

[Dave]

I just want the music to sound more sympathetic to Morrissey's muse and less like corporate, modern American rock. (And this is coming from an American, no less...)

Cheers,
Jamie

So you think that Morrissey knows less about how his music should sound than you do? I always thought you were smarter, meaning not American, and I'm saddened to find out that you are just a fellow Yank.

 

[Jamie]

its also in the bootleg section



i dont think he has

Well, chalk it up to an "I know I'm not going crazy, but..." moment: I can't locate the quote. I thought it was in one of the touring wrap posts that Morrissey did on true-to-you, but alas, no such luck.

Nevertheless, despite my failure to properly cite, I stand by its existence in some capacity. I think I've generally retained a high enough level of perspicacity on this forum to vouch for the fact that I'm not yielding to a flight of fancy here.

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[Worm]

Absolutely everything has been lost in terms of things feeling like a cohesive group and gained in terms of cool, competent professionalism. It's a sad irony, in my eyes, considering Morrissey once rejected the notion of touring Viva Hata chiefly b/c he viewed that band as being much too much like studio musicians and not a band. And now 4/5 of his band are. I've said this before in another post, but you sadly can't even joke anymore that "everyone and their brother can get a job for Morrissey"--because it's true!!

I will continue to buck the received wisdom of many that this group is superior to either the Lads or the version of the musicians touring YATQ prior to Alain's illness, no matter how much the fawning over the new model. (Irony #2: Morrissey putting people's desire to see the return of Alain and other Lads as "hormones" - cf. the numerous teenybopperish posts citing the aesthetic merits of Solomon, Matt, and Whoever is Playing Keyboard This Week.) It has nothing to do with nostalgia or comfort--it comes down to objectively viewing his work and identifying the diminishment over time and identifying what has continued to diminish it. The corrosive influence of Jesse's songwriting - no headline here - is chiefly to blame, too. If he and Morrissey have common influences, they have done a meritorious job in hiding this fact in their output.

Don't get me wrong - I have no desire to see a return of either an original Lads line-up in its entirety or a Smiths reunion. I just want the music to sound more sympathetic to Morrissey's muse and less like corporate, modern American rock. (And this is coming from an American, no less...)

Cheers,
Jamie

I agree with a lot of this but it should also be mentioned that his choice of songwriters and adoption of certain rockish musical styles reflect his desire to emphasize his voice. Fine to criticize him for that (I often have) but it's not as random as you seem to imply ("everyone and their brother"). There's method to his madness.

 

[Jamie]

So you think that Morrissey knows less about how his music should sound than you do? I always thought you were smarter, meaning not American, and I'm saddened to find out that you are just a fellow Yank.

I appreciate the tear shed for me and the wink winked.

In that spirit of things, I put it to you: does that mean Morrissey feels a corporate American rock sound truly suits his muse? In light of the high standard of his past work, is this not sadder? The most English of Englishman channeling grade Z American band sounds as the tapestry for his singular genius? I'm afraid he's been among us too long.

I would never confess to knowing more than Morrissey as to how his music should sound. But if that is how he wishes his music to sound then it deviates from all the reasons I fell in love with his music in the past. Just my humble opinion, nothing more.

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[Dave]

I appreciate the tear shed for me and the wink winked.

In that spirit of things, I put it to you: does that mean Morrissey feels a corporate American rock sound truly suits his muse? In light of the high standard of his past work, is this not sadder? The most English of Englishman channeling grade Z American band sounds as the tapestry for his singular genius? I'm afraid he's been among us too long.

I would never confess to knowing more than Morrissey as to how his music should sound. But if that is how he wishes his music to sound then it deviates from all the reasons I fell in love with his music in the past. Just my humble opinion, nothing more.

Cheers,
Jamie

Thanks for enjoying my sarcasm. Well, I think that calling it corporate american rock puts a bit of a negative connotation to it from the get-go. Here's what I think. Quarry is slick. Now, we have to ask if Morrissey is intending to make slick records to compete with other slick records. That's too horrible of a suggestion for me to even contemplate. Therefore, it can't be true.

I think Quarry sounds great though. The songs, I think, are generally better than Ringleader's. It might be interesting to see what would have happened if each producer had gotten to work with the other set of material.

How much does Morrissey want a hit? I guess that is the question. Like I said, it's just too much to think about him creating corporate records. I can't see him doing it, though. He loves music so much and it's not like he is a fan of slick production. I have to think that he chooses Finn because he has a track record, is professional, knows what is happening in today's recording environment, is probably easy to work with, and actually is talented and versatile. Quarry does have a range of material and it all works, for me.

 

[Worm]

Thanks for enjoying my sarcasm. Well, I think that calling it corporate american rock puts a bit of a negative connotation to it from the get-go. Here's what I think. Quarry is slick. Now, we have to ask if Morrissey is intending to make slick records to compete with other slick records. That's too horrible of a suggestion for me to even contemplate. Therefore, it can't be true.

I think Quarry sounds great though. The songs, I think, are generally better than Ringleader's. It might be interesting to see what would have happened if each producer had gotten to work with the other set of material.

How much does Morrissey want a hit? I guess that is the question. Like I said, it's just too much to think about him creating corporate records. I can't see him doing it, though. He loves music so much and it's not like he is a fan of slick production. I have to think that he chooses Finn because he has a track record, is professional, knows what is happening in today's recording environment, is probably easy to work with, and actually is talented and versatile. Quarry does have a range of material and it all works, for me.

Lemme ask you a question. If Morrissey's music is going "corporate", can you please direct me to a rock band he should emulate that's doing it the 'authentic' way, without resorting to serious experimentation or lacing their songs with postmodern eccentricity (e.g. Radiohead and Arcade Fire, respectively), two things Morrissey would never do?

Doubt you can, though I welcome any attempts. No, the only references for the 'right music' we could probably come with are either older Morrissey records or The Smiths. And his choice of less scintillating music is probably a function of not wanting to repeat himself, and that, I think, is admirable-- even when it yields "meh" results. He wants his voice to dominate the songs and given how great he sounds these days it's not a bad decision in my opinion.

But the repetitiveness is what he's avoiding, chiefly. I'm not saying I love all his new songs, but I appreciate the fact that he's going for simple rock tunes when I consider what else he might arrange. I was thinking of this listening to Echo & The Bunnymen and The Go-Betweens (RIP Robert) over the weekend. Two bands that still churned out really good songs-- never more proficient as writers-- even late in their careers, but their newer stuff inevitably sounded like echoes of the old. Consider that it might be a blessing that "You Have Killed Me" has a plodding, generic rock track instead of a retread of "Bigmouth Strikes Again". It's the opposite of innovative but at least he isn't locked into eternally recycling himself like Robert Smith among others-- the new Cure single is Exhibit A for what I'm talking about.

Look at other bands and you'll see the same thing. Bands that "reclaim" their old sound always come across as bland and artistically inert even when the songs compare favorably to the older material. This is true of any number of Eighties bands, including but not limited to U2, Depeche Mode, R.E.M. and The Cure.

 

[Dave]

Lemme ask you a question. If Morrissey's music is going "corporate", can you please direct me to a rock band he should emulate that's doing it the 'authentic' way, without resorting to serious experimentation or lacing their songs with postmodern eccentricity (e.g. Radiohead and Arcade Fire, respectively), two things Morrissey would never do?

Doubt you can, though I welcome any attempts. No, the only references for the 'right music' we could probably come with are either older Morrissey records or The Smiths. And his choice of less scintillating music is probably a function of not wanting to repeat himself, and that, I think, is admirable-- even when it yields "meh" results. He wants his voice to dominate the songs and given how great he sounds these days it's not a bad decision in my opinion.

But the repetitiveness is what he's avoiding, chiefly. I'm not saying I love all his new songs, but I appreciate the fact that he's going for simple rock tunes when I consider what else he might arrange. I was thinking of this listening to Echo & The Bunnymen and The Go-Betweens (RIP Robert) over the weekend. Two bands that still churned out really good songs-- never more proficient as writers-- even late in their careers, but their newer stuff inevitably sounded like echoes of the old. Consider that it might be a blessing that "You Have Killed Me" has a plodding, generic rock track instead of a retread of "Bigmouth Strikes Again". It's the opposite of innovative but at least he isn't locked into eternally recycling himself like Robert Smith among others-- the new Cure single is Exhibit A for what I'm talking about.

Look at other bands and you'll see the same thing. Bands that "reclaim" their old sound always come across as bland and artistically inert even when the songs compare favorably to the older material. This is true of any number of Eighties bands, including but not limited to U2, Depeche Mode, R.E.M. and The Cure.

I didn't say "corporate", Jamie did. I was saying that I can't think that is really the case, and that Morrissey would have to be turning his back on a lifetime love of music as an artform in order to get a hit. I was joking a little but that's the truth. I can't see that being the case.

 

[Worm]

I didn't say "corporate", Jamie did. I was saying that I can't think that is really the case, and that Morrissey would have to be turning his back on a lifetime love of music as an artform in order to get a hit. I was joking a little but that's the truth. I can't see that being the case.

I see. The shapeless complex of neuroses and delusions I call my "self" misunderstood you. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Dave]

I see. The shapeless complex of neuroses and delusions I call my "self" misunderstood you. Sorry 'bout that.

oh good. I'm afraid to 'fight" with you.