When did M’s career go tits up?

Surface

Chilling in Cheshire.
They are doing very well, yes.
I am a big fan too.
But if you look at their most popular songs they are all from decades ago and I don’t think their recent albums are even close to the quality of their prime albums.

Yet they still sell out areas and their albums chart very high.
 

skull

Active Member
A lot of people care, because his career is in shambles. And yes, I think we should demand a certain quality when it comes to his lyrics. The nonsense he tends to write now has nothing to do with the witty nothings he sometimes wrote in the past. Love Is On Its Way Out is no Some Girls… and Kerouac’s Crack is no Satan Rejected My Soul.
Yes. And Mountjoy is no You're the one for me fatty.
I can agree he's sometimes lazy, but he's always been a bit.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Yes. And Mountjoy is no You're the one for me fatty.
I can agree he's sometimes lazy, but he's always been a bit.
Hey, I’ve never said that some of the newer stuff aren’t better than some of the older stuff. And we were comparing some of his sillier songs, so your example is void.
 

Thewlis

Junior Member
I think there might be a bit more to it than that. No one could accuse Robert Smith of “playing the game”. They haven’t released new material in nearly 15 years, he rarely does interviews or other media appearances, and their gigs are usually around three hours long and filled with deep cuts, even deeper cuts still and hit singles. But sure, most of The Cure’s best albums came out in the 80s. Nick Cave, however, is better than ever. Which most critics seem to agree with.

All of these bands have self-respect and they would never manhandle their careers the way Moz does, nor treat their fans as badly as M sometimes do.

I know that Morrissey is infallible in your eyes, but in reality he really isn’t. He’s not as successful as he once was, and he has himself to blame for some of that. This is not me being hateful, I love him, but what’s the point of being a yes-man?
No, he messed up his career many times, during The Smiths, in the 90s and in the present day.
No one is debating that. And it is naive to think that would ever change. He will not change and he will not be nice.

If he really wanted the success of those bands he would have reunited The Smiths or done Greatest Hits-shows himself in recent years.

He doesn’t crave that kind of success and has upset the media by saying unpopular things and still manages to have 2 million monthly listeners on Spotify and earn millions touring and releasing four albums in the past five years, with two coming up. That’s a huge achievement and I don’t know of any other artist from the 80s who manages to do quite so well under those circumstances.
 

BrokenFrame

Well-Known Member
A lot of people care, because his career is in shambles. And yes, I think we should demand a certain quality when it comes to his lyrics. The nonsense he tends to write now has nothing to do with the witty nothings he sometimes wrote in the past. Love Is On Its Way Out is no Some Girls… and Kerouac’s Crack is no Satan Rejected My Soul.
Dude, not many artists are producing their best work at his age. It's not nonsense, in my opinion.....He just peaked in his younger days.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Dude, not many artists are producing their best work at his age. It's not nonsense, in my opinion.....He just peaked in his younger days.
Go back and read that conversation again. I think you misinterpret what I’m saying.
 

smiler

Junior Member
Speaking as a gentleman of experience, an observation: There has always been a group of people that feel let down by Morrissey. Ever since he emerged into the light, people have projected their own thing onto him and then fallen in love with the reflection he offered. Often its a bottomless deep and tender love ....... and then some are scorned. For some its part of growing up. It happens over and over. I've followed him closely since 1994. In 1997 people were saying he had changed, the Smiths split had changed him, then the court case had changed him, then moving to American had changed him. Most normal people hated Morrissey in those days. He wasn't a big act. If you wore a Morrissey T-Shirt someone would give you shit in the streets of London. He couldn't get a record deal. Everyone called him racists. Everyone thought he would just disappear. It was all over. Finished . Morrissey never changes. He remains dedicated to the pop song as artistic expression. Its his obsession. Its always the fans that change but they don't notice and some of them stick around to spoil the party like bitter ex-wives. Hes always said provocative stuff to get attention. He is catty and dramatic like that. Things appear to go in cycles though. This is just the down swing, just like 97. The group of people who feel let down is quite big at the moment just like it was then, he's playing the same size shows and people are saying he is not as good as he was. Its the was that changes. Over the years when the was was shifts a lot, if you follow me. If he comes back with a strong album with some catchy singles that capture a mood he might be top of the heap once again but it doesn't matter if he doesn't because he's done enough to live forever already anyway. I hope they combine these two albums and make a belter with some great b-sides (extra tracks). I honestly think if he presented record companies with the best 15 songs from 25 rather than the best 10 from 10 he'd have a queue begging him to sign.
 

skull

Active Member
Hey, I’ve never said that some of the newer stuff aren’t better than some of the older stuff. And we were comparing some of his sillier songs, so your example is void.
My point is that I don't see such a decadence in the quality of his work.
We don't agree, but some lyrics in Vauxhall could be better. Some songs on Your Arsenal are just weak. The first Maladjusted version was just poor. Kill Uncle has his worst production. Southpaw Grammar has just lazy lyrics. Some b sides in that period are better forget.
And his voice wasn't great sometimes.
And nevertheless I love all his albums, from Viva to Dog.
From Quarry until today, the quality of his output is remarkable, diverse, well produced and I think his band and his voice and melodies are stronger. Of course there are missteps, some lyrics are cringe or lazy, some songs can be forgotten: but just like in the past.
I enjoy all his albums, even the "shite" (someone else used that word) he produces today.
 
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Catholic

English Blood, Irish Heart
What matters is what Morrissey thought he was getting involved in - if activists have lied to him then he shouldn't be demonised for it
I italicise your line:
What matters is what Morrissey thought he was getting involved in

Indeed.

If Morrissey did not realise this, he does not deserve demonisation for mistakes that may be naive, but are easily forgivable. He can be faulted for them, yes. But they are not then hideous, unforgivable crimes, worthy of vilification, persecution and dragging him through the gutter for.
 
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Catholic

English Blood, Irish Heart
Morrissey would blame Snow White and the Seven Dwarves for his predicament before he would take an ounce of personal responsibility for anything. You need to go outside, socialise with people who don't dedicate their lives to the mad rabbit warrens of the Net and realise how cracked you sound to the average person. Your theories are farts in the wind, a waste of your time and everyone else's.


It may seem strange. But neither Malarkey's, nor your posts waste my time. I get much from them both.

I think Malarkey's theory of media figures working to discredit Morrissey is more than plausible.

I have seen this tendency in the British media for decades now, with its irrational hatred of figures like Yoko Ono or Evelyn Waugh.

At the same time, Amy, there is something about your acutely observed, empathetic (even if also sometimes angry) analysis of Morrissey's tragedy that also serves me greatly.

Thank you both.
 

Bonaparte Shandy

Active Member
YATQ hastened us towards the gift shop, I'm afraid.

It's a good album. Good songs, good music and the last example of good production.

It surfed the magic of the MEN arena 'comeback' concert (Mr Shandy has never quite got over that piece of mistletoe hanging from his crotch) and a handful of good follow-up appearances.

HOWEVER. . . YATQ flattered to deceive the later 'career' moves, which have been, with one or two notable exceptions, utterly ghastly.

He and his collaborators simply could not sustain the quality of that return and those performances. AW left, JT arrived as a VERY sub-standard replacement and then our boy got twatted on the quiff by some oaf in Liverpool.

YATQ - the last post, I'm afraid.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
My point is that I don't see such a decadence in the quality of his work.
We don't agree, but some lyrics in Vauxhall could be better. Some songs on Your Arsenal are just weak. The first Maladjusted version was just poor. Kill Uncle has his worst production. Southpaw Grammar has just lazy lyrics. Some b sides in that period are better forget.
And his voice wasn't great sometimes.
And nevertheless I love all his albums, from Viva to Dog.
From Quarry until today, the quality of his output is remarkable, diverse, well produced and I think his band and his voice and melodies are stronger. Of course there are missteps, some lyrics are cringe or lazy, some songs can be forgotten: but just like in the past.
I enjoy all his albums, even the "shite" (someone else used that word) he produces today.
I simply don’t love all of his albums, and his weakest stuff from the 90s are damn near masterpieces compared to the weakest stuff of today (ie Kerouac’s Crack and most of LIHS). I honestly believe that there has been a significant drop in quality, not just in lyrics but in the music too. His voice, however, is magnificent.
 

Amy

from the Ice Age to the dole age
It may seem strange. But neither Malarkey's, nor your posts waste my time. I get much from them both.

I think Malarkey's theory of media figures working to discredit Morrissey is more than plausible.

I have seen this tendency in the British media for decades now, with its irrational hatred of figures like Yoko Ono or Evelyn Waugh.

At the same time, Amy, there is something about your acutely observed, empathetic (even if also sometimes angry) analysis of Morrissey's tragedy that also serves me greatly.

Thank you both.
Morrissey is a divisive figure and there has always, always been a contingent of the British press that has hated him, going way back to the Smiths days. I don't dispute that but it's nothing new, there's no grand conspiracy - most fans here could name the likely 'four' at the drop of a hat, they're that obvious.

Claiming that these people are somehow behind Morrissey's tremendous fall from grace, though, is ridiculous. Maybe they're enjoying it, stoking it up, rolling around in it but they didn't cause it - that was his own stupid mouth, and his decision to support a lunatic fringe group. Morrissey played into the hands of his 'haters', he gifted them what they'd waited years for and then he turned around and played the victim. He wasn't "snared" by anybody, he just didn't think about the consequences until it was too late.
 

Malarkey

Well-Known Member
Morrissey is a divisive figure and there has always, always been a contingent of the British press that has hated him, going way back to the Smiths days. I don't dispute that but it's nothing new, there's no grand conspiracy - most fans here could name the likely 'four' at the drop of a hat, they're that obvious.

Claiming that these people are somehow behind Morrissey's tremendous fall from grace, though, is ridiculous. Maybe they're enjoying it, stoking it up, rolling around in it but they didn't cause it - that was his own stupid mouth, and his decision to support a lunatic fringe group. Morrissey played into the hands of his 'haters', he gifted them what they'd waited years for and then he turned around and played the victim. He wasn't "snared" by anybody, he just didn't think about the consequences until it was too late.

Irresponsible journalism & a malicious harassment campaign is bigger than Morrissey & you might have zero ethics but most professional people can see the problem which is why certain quarters are starting to go incredibly silent.
 

Redacted

Perfectly Satisfied
I am wondering how his 2017 video and his 'interview' with Fiona are different. Same exact complaints -
people are out to get me
people lie about me
I am not appreciated enough
record companies are mean to me
charts charts charts
no airplay
I am apolitical, now let me say a bunch of words about politics

you get the drift

So, what's the goal here?
 
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