When did M’s career go tits up?

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Sometime post Refusal. His demeanor changed, he had become nastier, colder, more bitter, misanthropic in a not so charming way. And something had happened to the music as well. He tried to make a comeback with The Kid’s a Looker for god’s sake. And when he finally did make a comeback, he did it with one of the worst albums of his career, an album full of that awful bitterness (WPINOYB). After that, it went even further downhill very fast, with an even worse album (LIHS) and an endless stream of stupid and career-killing statements and remarks. And we all know the rest… I do love him, though, and I always will, and I do think he can pull of a great comeback with a great new album (Without Music…).
 

Young And Alive

Senior Member
Refusal was his last great album (to date).

The 2010s were not kind to his career. Poor quality albums with poor quality songs and artwork (I mean, compare the cover of an album like Quarry with Dog on a Chain). A creeping reluctance to do media compared to the 1990s and 2000s. He used to do interviews and performances with the likes of Jonathan Ross, Jools Holland, Radio 2. Primetime slots with exposure to millions of people. He just isn't doing that anymore.

You can trace a steady decline in the quality of his work after Alain Whyte ceased to be his main songwriting partner. Perhaps with him back in the fold, Morrissey can recapture some of the old magic.

People have always written Morrissey off. I get that. He used to complain that The Smiths never got enough airplay. Then when his solo career began people said he'd never succeed without Johnny Marr. Then in the 90s he was overshadowed by younger Britpop bands. Then he lost his record deal after Maladjusted and fell off the mainstream radar.

2004 was a remarkable turnaround. To not only return with a genuinely superb album in Quarry, but to record his most commercially successful calendar year of his career in the UK with four top ten singles, a wildly successful tour, TV and radio appearances aplenty, young bands falling over themselves to be photographed with him...it really couldn't have gone any better for him. Singers in their mid 40s just don't do that, given how ageist the popular music industry is.

But he's now in his mid 60s. Short of a reunion with Marr, there's nothing he can now do to recreate the kind of buzz he had in 2004. And I think he knows that.

I don't believe Morrissey is racist. But if he wants to rebuild his career and become successful again, he needs to stop talking about politics and just focus on writing songs. I would move away from the electronic stuff and move back to melodic guitar driven songs, which Whyte is so good at.

He will never again be a Top 10 singles artist. No one his age, regardless of talent or respect, is. That's the way of the world. But he can become a good songwriter again with #1 albums and successful tours. People bounce back from bad PR, and so can Morrissey, but he needs to understand that he isn't invincible or infallible. Whether he regrets some of the things he's said in recent years or not, he needs to recognise that he cannot regain the success he's had in years (and decades) gone by without showing some contrition for the offence caused.

His priorities for 2023 should be as follows:

Speak to Capitol and get Bonfire released. It doesn't suit either party for that album to remain unreleased. Try and get the Miley Cyrus stand off resolved.
Do another extensive tour with a crowd pleasing setlist. More Smiths, more early solo stuff, more Whyte era stuff.
He still has connections in the media. Do TV and radio interviews. Do not vet the questions. Answer truthfully and with contrition. Reiterate that he is not, and never has been racist, whilst apologising to anyone who has been upset by his comments.
Try to improve relations with Johnny Marr.
Stop letting SER guide his career. He's way out of his depth. Get back to designing his own artwork. Stop surrounding himself with yes men (and women).
 
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gordyboy9

the leather belts.
his career is still going strong,sell out tours,last album is one of his best,talk about negativity on a saturday morning,cheer up, it might never happen although in your case it probably has.VIVAMOZZ.
 
A

Ann E Old-Iron

Guest
At least partly, it’s down to the internet taking hold. A lot of the attraction was his enigmatic nature - remember how we used to wait for the MM/NME for a scrap of news - and now there’s nowhere to hide one’s less appealing sides.
 

Gregor Samsa

I straighten up, and my position is one of hope.
Refusal was his last great album (to date).

The 2010s were not kind to his career. Poor quality albums with poor quality songs and artwork (I mean, compare the cover of an album like Quarry with Dog on a Chain). A creeping reluctance to do media compared to the 1990s and 2000s. He used to do interviews and performances with the likes of Jonathan Ross, Jools Holland, Radio 2. Primetime slots with exposure to millions of people. He just isn't doing that anymore.

You can trace a steady decline in the quality of his work after Alain Whyte ceased to be his main songwriting partner. Perhaps with him back in the fold, Morrissey can recapture some of the old magic.

People have always written Morrissey off. I get that. He used to complain that The Smiths never got enough airplay. Then when his solo career began people said he'd never succeed without Johnny Marr. Then in the 90s he was overshadowed by younger Britpop bands. Then he lost his record deal after Maladjusted and fell off the mainstream radar.

2004 was a remarkable turnaround. To not only return with a genuinely superb album in Quarry, but to record his most commercially successful calendar year of his career in the UK with four top ten singles, a wildly successful tour, TV and radio appearances aplenty, young bands falling over themselves to be photographed with him...it really couldn't have gone any better for him. Singers in their mid 40s just don't do that, given how ageist the popular music industry is.

But he's now in his mid 60s. Short of a reunion with Marr, there's nothing he can now do to recreate the kind of buzz he had in 2004. And I think he knows that.

I don't believe Morrissey is racist. But if he wants to rebuild his career and become successful again, he needs to stop talking about politics and just focus on writing songs. I would move away from the electronic stuff and move back to melodic guitar driven songs, which Whyte is so good at.

He will never again be a Top 10 singles artist. No one his age, regardless of talent or respect, is. That's the way of the world. But he can become a good songwriter again with #1 albums and successful tours. People bounce back from bad PR, and so can Morrissey, but he needs to understand that he isn't invincible or infallible. Whether he regrets some of the things he's said in recent years or not, he needs to recognise that he cannot regain the success he's had in years (and decades) gone by without showing some contrition for the offence caused.

His priorities for 2023 should be as follows:

Speak to Capitol and get Bonfire released. It doesn't suit either party for that album to remain unreleased. Try and get the Miley Cyrus stand off resolved.
Do another extensive tour with a crowd pleasing setlist. More Smiths, more early solo stuff, more Whyte era stuff.
He still has connections in the media. Do TV and radio interviews. Do not vet the questions. Answer truthfully and with contrition. Reiterate that he is not, and never has been racist, whilst apologising to anyone who has been upset by his comments.
Try to improve relations with Johnny Marr.
Stop letting SER guide his career. He's way out of his depth. Get back to designing his own artwork. Stop surrounding himself with yes men (and women).
The sanest post on this subject ever posted on Solo. Everything that needs to be said, you just said. Thank you.
 

stux

Please wait..............
Hey look, I am not trying to suggest here that Morrissey hasn’t said some truly stupid things and continues to do so. He has and does.

But. The Chinese are a sub-species headline.

There is the context to that comment that never gets mentioned, it is very important context. The treatment of animals in China, stuff done openly on the high street, it is truly sickening. Morrissey would say the same thing if it was happening in his home town, he didn‘t attack the Chinese for being Chinese, he spoke up because he thinks it is barbaric to see cats and dogs skinned alive, birds skewered when alive and then fried for people to openly munch on like a toffee apple.
 

Surface

Chilling in Cheshire.
He's doing the right thing - he's put those 4 hacks on notice & he's working.
He hasn’t put anyone on notice, he just mentioned it and they won’t give a f***.
For me it started going pear shaped on 2nd Oct 2017 during the 6 Music set when he mentioned Anne Marie Waters, the crowd went silent and loads of people on here who were listening live were pretty shocked.
 
M

Malc

Guest
The day that it all finally clicked into place for me was the day he came out supporting For Britain.

I’d blindly ignored anything he’d said up until that point, and had followed him on every date of the previous two UK tours, bought every pressing of every new release etc.

But this was him aligning himself with out and out racists, and demonstrated that everything he had said before that I had brushed off was deeply ingrained in the change he actually wants to see in this country, and that’s something I can’t support.

Since then I’ve not been to a single show and have been slowly selling off my collection of Morrissey solo stuff, while keeping my Smiths records. I figure at least I can recoup some of my investment in him this way.
 

Malarkey

Well-Known Member
He hasn’t put anyone on notice, he just mentioned it and they won’t give a f***.
For me it started going pear shaped on 2nd Oct 2017 during the 6 Music set when he mentioned Anne Marie Waters, the crowd went silent and loads of people on here who were listening live were pretty shocked.

They do give a f***.

And they're the ones that gave her the platform & more publicity than he ever did.
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Because having told people not to vote, he urged us to vote for people too nazi even for UKIP, and wore their badge to support them. Now having done that, he's blaming everyone else for his non-career. He will never, ever take responsibility for anything, ever.
 

smiler

Junior Member
Because having told people not to vote, he urged us to vote for people too nazi even for UKIP, and wore their badge to support them. Now having done that, he's blaming everyone else for his non-career. He will never, ever take responsibility for anything, ever.
He has an ongoing 40+ year (non) career, He's produced art which many people credit with saving their lives, has achieved icon status, considerable wealth, world wide fame, hes' influenced and inspired art in mutipal genre, has shaped the cultural landscape and language. Hows your career going?
 
A

Anon of Manchester

Guest
I agree about the Chinese statement. I actually suspect that the reaction geared him up to just keep repeating stupid comments that journalists would salivate over. He’s complicit in his own downfall. No matter how much people gild the lily of the last tour, he was playing venues that didn’t challenge in terms of selling tickets, and but for a major cock up, those singing his praises would have done so regardless. We know the drill. We know the voices.

I rationalised the Chinese statement as being a direct, but clumsy response to being shown a video from China of animal cruelty. As previously I’d, albeit cringingly, defended the flag waving. I never liked it though, as it went directly against the grain for me. I was Irish Mancunian, and the Union Jack was an affront to that. I only mention this to contextualise the jumping through moral hoops that occurred internally.

70, 80, then 90. I was reaching a point close to attending over 100 gigs of his, solo and with The Smiths. However I became aware that this man in front of me, on the stage, was beginning to irritate me. The Israeli flag on the drum kit. As a PSC member I didn’t want to be reminded of an oppressive colonial regime, especially from a man with Irish blood like me who knew all about that from his own family history. Or should have. The comments about Walters, Robinson, and a bunch of right wing racists was enough for me. I’d heard enough. In fact, I’d heard too much. All of the excuses I’d made for him unravelled and I felt like a prize idiot.

No longer wearing rose tinted glasses, I still had a history of listening to his art. Although there was a period where I never listened to his music, I couldn’t escape it. I found myself in the pub, singing along to myself when some stranger played about half a dozen of his songs on the jukebox. Tinged with a bit of embarrassment and guilt at the time as I recall. Slowly I reconciled that I could separate the art for the artist. Was I applying a high moral standard to Morrissey that I spared others? Yes, I was. I supposed I’d allowed him to earn that status.

I still listen to his music. I still find the man fascinating, but for a perceptively critical eye this time round. I’ll never reach a century on the gig front, and never spend a penny, save the universal Spotify fee, on the man again. Most significantly, I no longer own up to being a Morrissey fan. That’s in the past.

I bore the reader (if anyone has actually got this far) as I know that my story is far from unique. I believe that many people have very similar tales to tell when it comes to faces that no longer attend gigs etc. So back to the question, of when? Well, pretty Much within a couple of years of his solo career. He’s been pissing off his once loyal, once huge, fan base all along. Step away, as I have done and it’s a pretty clear picture.

He’ll get worse as (and if) he gets older. I guarantee that.
 

Surface

Chilling in Cheshire.
They do give a f***.

And they're the ones that gave her the platform & more publicity than he ever did.

Why would they give a f***? Fading pop star mentions 4 people who made negative comments about him, do you think they really give a shit. The comments on 6 music were live and there were probably thousands of his fans listening, he said what he said, others mentioned it after. No one else to blame, he should have kept his stupid thoughts to himself.
 

Malarkey

Well-Known Member
Why would they give a f***? Fading pop star mentions 4 people who made negative comments about him, do you think they really give a shit. The comments on 6 music were live and there were probably thousands of his fans listening, he said what he said, others mentioned it after. No one else to blame, he should have kept his stupid thoughts to himself.

Because they persecuted a minority artist & that's a scandal.

Some of the "fans" mentioning it afterwards were the ones who brought AMW to his attention in the first place.
 

Surface

Chilling in Cheshire.
Because they persecuted a minority artist & that's a scandal.

Some of the "fans" mentioning it afterwards were the ones who brought AMW to his attention in the first place.

No one to blame but himself, if he hadn't said it, there would be nothing to persecute him about.

And regarding fans, can you post a link to where fans brought AMW to his attention or are you trying to re write history again?
 

Malarkey

Well-Known Member
No one to blame but himself, if he hadn't said it, there would be nothing to persecute him about.

And regarding fans, can you post a link to where fans brought AMW to his attention or are you trying to re write history again?

It starts a long way before 2017 & it's not his fault.

You can keep an eye on my Twitter....
 
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Anonmous

Guest
For me it was his support of Infowars that did him in for me. He openly promoted Inforwars on his OFFICIAL Website to justify his views of diversity and this is very recent. Can you imagine an artist such as Morrissey aligning himself and promoting Infowars (Paul Watson) on his on Official Website to actually justify his own views! That was it for me. He is a great singer / songwriter one of the very best and for gods sake he is not a pedophile like Michael Jackson, but from my perspective his a total piece of shi$ as a human being for promoting something as evil and despicable as Infowars. That was it for me.
 
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