What would have made "Ringleader" one of his best albums?

Chartres

New Member
Think that you should have the trumpets in "I'll Never Be..." as in the live version but a bit more as well, plus I think it should be the opener followed by "Dear God Please help Me".

"To Me You Are..." needs real lyrics and "On the Streets I ran" can be totally forgotten, as well as "IN The Future" and "At Last I Am Born". I really agree with Sir Alec's propotion in the begining of the thread, I do.
 

lilybett

Pheobe W Caulfield
I think ROTT was brilliant.

BUT I think Ganglord should have been included. And the cover of Human Being (shuddup I loved it).

And Dear God, Please Help Me and At Last I Am Born should have been taken off.

Oh, but anyway. Oh! ROTT introduced us to Life Is A Pigsty. One of the best things he's ever done. So :)
 

Lost

New Member
I Will See You In Far Off Places
Dear God Please Help Me
You Have Killed Me
If You Don't Like Me Don't look at Me
Human Being
Christian Dior
Life Is A Pigsty
I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now
On The Streets I Ran
To Me You Are A Work Of Art
I Just Want To See The Boy Happy
Ganglord


Now that IS a good album!!!!!!! :D
 

AHappyRocket

New Member
Not having "Dear God" "Father" "Streets" "Boy Happy" and "At Last.." would have helped I suppose. From one of popular music's all time greats, just nowhere near good enough.

Sorry I can't comment on the B-Sides - after being so disappointed with ROTT I haven't bought any more of last year's output.

For whatever reason, Morrissey merely went through the motions last year with the album and the live shows.

.......cue bucketloads of abuse for not showing blind devotion....
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
You should at least download the b-sides...we've got em here somewhere...in the DL section...

Trust me, the B-sides, with the exception of "I Knew I Was Next" written by that talentless hack Jesse Tobias, are all FAR superior than anything on the album...
 

helmoz

on the moors
the children's choir got a bit irritating at times... perhaps keep them on "the father who must be killed" but not on any other songs.
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
Yes...I concur...I think the album could have done without any Tobias songs with the exception of You Have Killed Me and If You Don't Like Me...
 

Roma De Moz

Fat Children Took My Life
With the exception of tracks such as Dear God and Pigsty, the autobiographical focus of the lyrics was a distraction for me. Of course, Morrissey has always written personal, self reflective lyrics, but before Ringleader he did so in such a way that it left the songs open to interpretation and varied understandings. Future, Hero, At Last I Am Born, Work Of Art and You Have Killed Me, while being good songs, seem somewhat one dimensional to me in terms of writing, and don't offer up the engrossing possibilities that the likes of Quarry and other back-catalogue material does.

Morrissey can write songs that feel at once personal and universal, but I didn't feel it as strongly on this record. Therefore, Morrissey should move away from the autobiographical somewhat, and make more songs in the vein of Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning: personal, yet mystifying and layered with different subtexts.
 

Roma De Moz

Fat Children Took My Life
^ as long as it's written and played by someone OTHER than Jesse Tobias!

Ok, please can you kindly stop with this tangent. You don't like Jesse Tobias as musician and co-writer, so what? Your as free as anyone to dislike his work, but the fact is, he has only been on board for one record, and even then, it's not as if he wasn't being directed by other band mates and producers.

Morrissey and Visconti's vision of what they wanted the album to sound like dictated and directed Jesse's craftsmanship, even more so than it did with the rest of the band because he is now Moz's co-writer.
 

!Viva Hate!

Well-Known Member
Ok, please can you kindly stop with this tangent. You don't like Jesse Tobias as musician and co-writer, so what? Your as free as anyone to dislike his work, but the fact is, he has only been on board for one record, and even then, it's not as if he wasn't being directed by other band mates and producers.

Morrissey and Visconti's vision of what they wanted the album to sound like dictated and directed Jesse's craftsmanship, even more so than it did with the rest of the band because he is now Moz's co-writer.

Sorry, but I created this thread which makes me the Hitler of it...
 

MozIsGod

Active Member
Trust me, the B-sides, with the exception of "I Knew I Was Next" written by that talentless hack Jesse Tobias, are all FAR superior than anything on the album...

Hey! 'I Knew I Was Next' was the best b-side from that single. And it could have easily replaced 'On The Streets I Ran', don't ya think? ;)

I'm glad that you like at least one of Jesse's songs...'If You Don't Like Me...'. :)
 

thewarroom

Scorpion Kicker
I Will See You In Far Off Places
Dear God Please Help Me
You Have Killed Me
If You Don't Like Me Don't look at Me
Human Being
Christian Dior
Life Is A Pigsty
I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now
On The Streets I Ran
To Me You Are A Work Of Art
I Just Want To See The Boy Happy
Ganglord


Now that IS a good album!!!!!!! :D

Yes, it certainly is! Though I would take out Dear God and reinsert The Youngest, that is a great tracklist! :cool:
 
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