what is the juiciest piece of Moz gossip you've ever heard?

O

oh but i do

Guest
Re: Oh, here we go again...

I'll believe alcohol poisoning, or serious hangover, or a bad cold, but not rehab. He wouldn't cancel just those two dates if he was wallowing in the abyss of alcoholism. He'd cancel weeks or months. And rehab is a great excuse (nobody would get mad at him for going into rehab) so if it was true he would have told us instead of blaming his management (which made people mad).


 
L

Lifeguard Sleeping

Guest
He is human and he needs...blah blah blah...

> I believe in what Moz says. If he is as conniving and
> manipulative as you and Benny think, then I couldn't be a fan.

You don't "know" Morrissey. None of us do. Perhaps he may be conniving and manipulative - he is human, after all and all humans are capable of possessing those two traits. He's a very complex individual, I'm sure you'd agree.

> Morrissey is not a gay or bi- icon. He transcends all that and
> talks to all of us who have ever felt different. When are you
> going to get this into your heads?

Yes, but the question is, at the end of the day, who does he prefer to have sex with?

Personally, I have my own thoughts on the matter, but they're neither here nor there, are they? Whenever this nauseatingly overdiscussed topic makes its way onto the board, there are always two well-defined camps: the "c'mon, we all know he's gay" camp and the "Morrissey transcends all sexual labels" camp and to the latter, I say: you sound like a broken record. Yes, we KNOW Morrissey has never come out and stated who/what his sexual preferences are, but do you REALLY think he doesn't HAVE any? (preferences, I mean...NOT sex - although I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, as a 40 year-old man, he's probably had his share).

I really don't like to get involved in these tiresome threads, but sometimes I just shake my head at what I read. Take what you want out of his lyrics - just know that, at the end of the day, he DOES make choices, and he DOES fall into categories.
 
L

Lifeguard Sleeping

Guest
Re: Oh, here we go again...

> And rehab is a great excuse (nobody would get mad at
> him for going into rehab) so if it was true he would have told
> us instead of blaming his management (which made people mad).

If this is true, then of course Morrissey wouldn't want his fans to know this. I don't feel he would view rehab as an admirable thing, anyway. I mean, this is a guy who would never admit to doing ANYTHING "naughty." Also, you'll recall that the Smiths tried to keep Andy's drug problem hush-hush, so as not to upset their image (and Morrissey!).

No, I doubt Morrissey would want his fans to know he had a drug or alcohol problem.
 
B

Bertrand

Guest
What Difference Does it Make...

> You don't "know" Morrissey. None of us do. Perhaps he
> may be conniving and manipulative - he is human, after all and
> all humans are capable of possessing those two traits. He's a
> very complex individual, I'm sure you'd agree.

No I don't know him. I probably would be dissappointed if I did! But there is a sense of truth I get from his lyrics and his persona. If it is purely manufactured, I have no reason to follow him.

It's like the debate about why he is touring. Those more cynical say it's because he needs the money. I choose to believe it is because he wants to be on stage. Maybe I'm naive.

> Yes, but the question is, at the end of the day, who does he
> prefer to have sex with?

The point is who cares? Does it matter?

> Personally, I have my own thoughts on the matter, but they're
> neither here nor there, are they? Whenever this nauseatingly
> overdiscussed topic makes its way onto the board, there are
> always two well-defined camps: the "c'mon, we all know he's
> gay" camp and the "Morrissey transcends all sexual
> labels" camp and to the latter, I say: you sound like a
> broken record. Yes, we KNOW Morrissey has never come out and
> stated who/what his sexual preferences are, but do you REALLY
> think he doesn't HAVE any? (preferences, I mean...NOT sex -
> although I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, as a
> 40 year-old man, he's probably had his share).

Both sides do nothing but repeat themselves on this subject. Really the only reason I responded to Benny is because I thought the quotes and songs he chose were some of the least obviously gay related. Explain to me how "Half a Person" has to be about being gay.

> I really don't like to get involved in these tiresome threads,
> but sometimes I just shake my head at what I read. Take what you
> want out of his lyrics - just know that, at the end of the day,
> he DOES make choices, and he DOES fall into categories.

Most the threads here are tiresome! How much more can we talk about Julia Riley?
 
D

driven madm

Guest
Re: a virgin to women

Morrissey likes or liked back in England rough straight guys and
was willing to give them validation by the railway station if necessary. That is what I relate to with Morrissey, thats only
what i'm attracted to. By the way one thing I notice there are
not many stereotypical gays that go to Morrissey concerts. Most are
like me where you couldn't outwardly tell. But please I believe
Morrissey only likes this type[definately not women].
 
S

Sexy Skinhead

Guest
Re: a virgin to women

> Morrissey likes or liked back in England rough straight guys and
> was willing to give them validation by the railway station if
> necessary. That is what I relate to with Morrissey, thats only
> what i'm attracted to. By the way one thing I notice there are
> not many stereotypical gays that go to Morrissey concerts. Most
> are
> like me where you couldn't outwardly tell. But please I believe
> Morrissey only likes this type[definately not women].

Ok, we all FIGURE that he likes the type of men you described, but how the hell do you know??? Back in England? Did he tell you this personally, or try and hit on you personally? He has made many little interesting comments to me while on stage, but I am not sure that he wants to bed me. I wish, but I don't quite think that is the case. What I wanna know is how you are so sure. See, I know he likes guys because I was told by someone very close to him that Jake definitely WAS his boyfriend. But how do figure you know his type?
 
D

driven mad

Guest
Re: a virgin to women

> Ok, we all FIGURE that he likes the type of men you described,
> but how the hell do you know??? Back in England? Did he tell you
> this personally, or try and hit on you personally? He has made
> many little interesting comments to me while on stage, but I am
> not sure that he wants to bed me. I wish, but I don't quite
> think that is the case. What I wanna know is how you are so
> sure. See, I know he likes guys because I was told by someone
> very close to him that Jake definitely WAS his boyfriend. But
> how do figure you know his type?
Two reasons , I trust that his lyrics have generally reflected how
he has felt, that is why i've always loved his music also I grew up
in England and the images he presented i related to. Of coarse
this all remains somewhat conjecture obviously.
 
C

Cili

Guest
Thanks guys, and Fabricio...

Your daughter is too adorable! Can you put up another picture of her? I wish I could just give her a big fat hug!


 
F

Fabricio

Guest
Re: Thanks guys, and Fabricio...

> Your daughter is too adorable! Can you put up another picture of
> her? I wish I could just give her a big fat hug!

Of course I can do it to you!!!

See the link below. The first photo is my daughter, the second
one is my niece and the last one is both with my sister in law.

A hug,
Fabricio.

P.S.: Your Audrey's photos are wonderful!




A gift to Cili
 
K

Kerissa

Guest
Let's not start this again!

For weeks we debated if he was or wasn't, so let's take a break for a couple of months before we start the whole gay debate again?!
 
L

Lifeguard Sleeping

Guest
Re: What Difference Does it Make...

> No I don't know him. I probably would be dissappointed if I did!
> But there is a sense of truth I get from his lyrics and his
> persona. If it is purely manufactured, I have no reason to
> follow him.

Oh, I understand that; in fact, I didn't mean to suggest that ANY part of his personality displayed via his songs is "manufactured." I just meant that there are many facets to one's personality (and they're not mutually exclusive).

> The point is who cares? Does it matter?

No, it does not. I was just replying to those who stand on their soapbox and sing the praises of Morrissey's transcendence of sexual stereotypes. They just blindly spout out old Morrissey quotes without admitting that yes, maybe he IS just being coy. I mean, it's a wonderful and romantic and progressive belief system, but I'm sure he identifies with one side just a BIT more than the other. I mean, back up your statements, don't just mimic his words.

> Both sides do nothing but repeat themselves on this subject.
> Really the only reason I responded to Benny is because I thought
> the quotes and songs he chose were some of the least obviously
> gay related. Explain to me how "Half a Person" has to
> be about being gay.

Yeah, I'll agree with you on that particular song, though the "Y...YCA" thing could be seen as gender play of sorts. ;)

I also heard something about a "backscrubber" having homosexual connotations in the UK. I'm not clear on this, though.

> Most the threads here are tiresome! How much more can we talk
> about Julia Riley?

Oh, you'd be surprised.
*sigh*
 
B

benny

Guest
you think he's going to say, "i'm a drunk and had to go into rehab" in a book?

get real!

> I have a recording of an interview in which Morrissey explains
> that he cancelled the Carnegie Hall show because his (then)
> manager booked that particular show & authorized ticket
> sales completely without Moz's knowledge. In his own words...
> "I can't really live that way..." meaning that he
> can't allow others to run away with his career & affairs...
> ultimately, Morrissey has to retain control of what he does.

> When faced with believing the words of Morrissey himself, or
> someone who says... "i know for a fact that...",
> etc... I choose Morrissey.

> -c
 
B

benny

Guest
where do you live?

if you don't live in nyc (or *maybe* los angeles), then most gay young boys are probably still in the closet since homesexuality isn't accepted (by far) in most of america as it is in the larger metropolitan areas. i saw two 15 year old boys walking hand in hand on my block last night. *that* doesn't happen in boise. at any nyc event you go to, there are scores and scores and scores of fags in the audience. at the beacon i would guess it was at least 50% gay.

as for 'how soon is now', he is singing that [even though he is homosexual] he needs to be loved JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES. it isn't even that thinly veiled. his behavior is criminally vulgar (homosexuality was a crime, as you know, in england for a very long time).

do me a favor, you explain to *me* how half a person would refer to his liking women (straight men don't check into the ywca, and they don't volunteer as back-scrubbers). i mean, if you look at his lyrics with any clarity at all it is perfectly clear. i know, it's hard for most of the girls who love him to accept, but have you noticed how many of the female moz fans tend to be fag hags (whether they realize it or not)? curious indeed...

benny

> Please, please someone explain to me how "How Soon is
> Now" and "Half a Person" are gay anthems! You've
> made up your mind, Benny, and refuse to look at things in any
> other way.

> I don't personally know any young gay boys. This is surprising
> to me after reading your post. I should know hordes, since I
> know a lot of Moz fans.
 
B

benny

Guest
also

wait 10 years and revisit all your 'straight' moz fans. i'm cerain you'll find that most or all of them have come out. it's like a right of passage. it's all been done before. i'm guessing you're young, so you haven't seen this all before as many times as i have. remember, the original smiths/moz fans are now well into their 30s.

benny

> I don't personally know any young gay boys. This is surprising
> to me after reading your post. I should know hordes, since I
> know a lot of Moz fans.
 
B

benny

Guest
well put, and....

i have a tendency to come across as hot-headed (which i am). you put that very evenly and nicely.

i do want to add that those who are vague about their sexuality tend to, by default, be considered homosexual. michael stipe did it for years before finally coming out. anthony rapp (from 'rent') and alan cummings are 'pansexual', although they sleep with men. i would venture that 99.9% of straight singers and actors do not feel any need at all to 'avoid labels'. they'll show their wedding rings, their kids, their wives or girlfriends to anyone who wants to know.

benny

> You don't "know" Morrissey. None of us do. Perhaps he
> may be conniving and manipulative - he is human, after all and
> all humans are capable of possessing those two traits. He's a
> very complex individual, I'm sure you'd agree.

> Yes, but the question is, at the end of the day, who does he
> prefer to have sex with?

> Personally, I have my own thoughts on the matter, but they're
> neither here nor there, are they? Whenever this nauseatingly
> overdiscussed topic makes its way onto the board, there are
> always two well-defined camps: the "c'mon, we all know he's
> gay" camp and the "Morrissey transcends all sexual
> labels" camp and to the latter, I say: you sound like a
> broken record. Yes, we KNOW Morrissey has never come out and
> stated who/what his sexual preferences are, but do you REALLY
> think he doesn't HAVE any? (preferences, I mean...NOT sex -
> although I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, as a
> 40 year-old man, he's probably had his share).

> I really don't like to get involved in these tiresome threads,
> but sometimes I just shake my head at what I read. Take what you
> want out of his lyrics - just know that, at the end of the day,
> he DOES make choices, and he DOES fall into categories.
 
B

benny

Guest
to c ili

> I think it's important to keep an open mind and not jump to
> conclusions too quickly. Morrissey has said many times both
> implicitly and explicitly that he was opposed to the
> well-defined borders separating male and female behaviour.

**************this is a very, very , very typical gay man's defense of his privacy (i.e. sexuality). see: michael stipe, anthony rapp, alan cummings, kevin spacey, et al. straight celebrities don't need to 'avoid labels', they have nothing to hide or be uncomfortable about.

Sure,
> if looking at Morrissey, you only have homo or heterosexuality
> as choices, it would make sense to choose homosexuality. But the
> world is larger than that; so too should your mind be. There are
> many more colours than just black and white.

**********yes, but we're not talking about colors, we're talking about sex. there are really only 2 types of sex (excluding, i suppose beastiality: 1. sex with women 2. sex with men. some people will argue for a third: 3. sex with men and women. it's pretty black and white, no? 2 out of 3 include sleeping with men.

> You saw a man in eye shadow and lipstick and you call him gay. I
> see a man (whose sexuality I'm just not sure of) who's trying to
> make a public statement. I saw him wearing a hearing-aid, but I
> never thought he was deaf. He's definitely effeminate, but does
> that mean he likes having sex with men?

**********by that alone, who's to say? but what statement is gender bending supposed to be making? he's always been a gay role model, even in his earliest days. it's a role he chose and relished.

> Again, those lyrics can mean anything depending upon how large
> your palette is.

> As far as those above quotes go, I feel that even a person who
> sees only in black and white would be hard pressed to determine
> that there are homosexual undertones present.

> From a lyrical standpoint, I think it's a lot vague and very
> unclear. If it were very clear, he'd be Brett Anderson (and even
> he's not gay). As far as the "straight people do not have
> to hide their love" bit, I think you definitely need to
> widen your horizons a bit darling.

*********i don't know you, but i have no doubt that my horizons extend farther than yours. i have had sex with women and men (women didn't seem to work out so well). i have lived solely in the straight world (as do all gay children growing up with their parents), as part of both straight and gay worlds, and solely in the gay world. by world, i refer to culture and lifestyle, i suppose. i'm not referring that gays live in a separate world than straights. morrissey is in the closet, where he has chosen to remain. he is not going to overtly announce his attraction to men in his songs. he is a great lyricist, and is able to express his feelings through his poetry. auden (and WILDE) were able to do the same. there's a reason why it is called the 'love that dare not speak its name'.

> That is one of the most presumptuous presumptions I've ever
> read! But I do that too so...

*************would you care to explain in which situations it would become vital for a man to hide his heterosexuality? is it considered repugnant or disgraceful in some areas i've never heard of? is being heterosexual illegal in some places? do men get executed for bravely announcing their attraction to women in some cultures, or are they exiled and ridiculed or enslaved? i'm not talking about hiding an affair with a woman(which many men boast about anyway), but hiding the fact that he sleeps with (*gasp*) women??!!?? i'm hard pressed to figure a time or place where that would be necessary.

> Aha! That explains everything. Every public relations person
> I've ever known has had this terrible way of sectioning and
> labeling human beings, never allowing people to cross lines. And
> if they do, they're immediately segregated and labeled!
>Not all public behaviour is
> public relations. Kula Shaker may have an image consultant, but
> I sincerely doubt that Morrissey or the boys did.

*********you sincerely doubt??? let me tell you something: record companies do not let their artists just go out and prove their merit on word of mouth. every single that was on the radio, every public appearance, every top of the pops, was the result of a publicist of some sort. tv shows don't just call up a superstar at home and say "why don't you come on my show?" you must be a bit young. or at least naive. i bet you believe that 'entertainment tonight' actually goes out and reports news! just to let you know, EVERYTHING on any of those types of shows (which morrissey has been on in the past) is set up by a publicist. publicists have to BEG to get et or access hollywood or even the local news to come and cover an event.

in other words, yes, morrissey had a publicist. either provided by the record company or chosen by him. but he had one.

> Mmm, I'll bet you do. :p

**********i'm a nobody. i don't need one. but if you are in the public eye, you have to have one. journalists are vicious.

> It doesn't sound like you have any belief in art, artistic
> merit, or personalities at all!
> You should quit your job immediately. It's totally killing your
> spirit.

**********quite the contrary. my spirit is alive and well, thanks. i have a small group of very good friends and a larger group of social friends. i enjoy theatre of all types, recently i saw a preview of broadway's 'aida' and will soon be seeing 'jesus christ, superstar' on broadway, which i am anxiously awaiting. i was one of the first rentheads. i am seeing 'de la guarda', an off broaday performance/dance piece for the second time next friday. in addition to morrissey at the beacon, i recently saw eurythmics, bette midler and (gulp) ricky martin (free tickets) at madison square garden. i visit the galleries in chelsea every other week or so, and amiee mann and michael penn at joe's pub. i also love len, who i saw at the bowery ballroom last fall.

maybe i'm just older and (slightly) wiser - or at least i've seen a little bit more than you. naivety and youth do tend to make the world seem a little brighter, i'll certainly give you that.

benny
 
E

everdene

Guest
Re: to c ili

I'm sorry, Benny, but I have to defend Cili. Her mind is broader than yours. You may be older, but you are not wiser. You see only two types of people. The truth is, and even Morrissey has said this to some extent, that people are simply sexual. Puting people into catagories of bi, straight, gay, lesbian, barnyard, self, or whatever is wrong. You can put sex acts into hundreds of catagories if you would like, but we don't have to put people into catagories. We are all human and to some extent sexual. Some sexual behaviors are more appropriate than others and some are more obviously damaging to society than others, but that doesn't change the fact that we are all human and we need to be loved.
 
B

Bring Back the Children's Film Foundation

Guest
> and do you believe it?

I met a girl who had worked on a Moz video and she told an interesting tale about Moz and his three pretty young skinhead boy companions - one of whom he was demonstrably very close to ... she had no reason to lie; she hardly knew who he was. She also said he was one of the most unpleasant and rude people she'd ever met or worked with!
 
L

Lifeguard Sleeping

Guest
Re: Let's not start this again!

> For weeks we debated if he was or wasn't, so let's take a break
> for a couple of months before we start the whole gay debate
> again?!

It's not so much the gay debate thing, as it is how people come to these conclusions, and what they're based on.

Well, I THINK.
 
G

Give me a cigarette

Guest
Re: where do you live? Come on!!! Just listen to "Swallow!"

> if you don't live in nyc (or *maybe* los angeles), then most gay
> young boys are probably still in the closet since homesexuality
> isn't accepted (by far) in most of america as it is in the
> larger metropolitan areas. i saw two 15 year old boys walking
> hand in hand on my block last night. *that* doesn't happen in
> boise. at any nyc event you go to, there are scores and scores
> and scores of fags in the audience. at the beacon i would guess
> it was at least 50% gay.

> as for 'how soon is now', he is singing that [even though he is
> homosexual] he needs to be loved JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES.
> it isn't even that thinly veiled. his behavior is criminally
> vulgar (homosexuality was a crime, as you know, in england for a
> very long time).

> do me a favor, you explain to *me* how half a person would refer
> to his liking women (straight men don't check into the ywca, and
> they don't volunteer as back-scrubbers). i mean, if you look at
> his lyrics with any clarity at all it is perfectly clear. i
> know, it's hard for most of the girls who love him to accept,
> but have you noticed how many of the female moz fans tend to be
> fag hags (whether they realize it or not)? curious indeed...

> benny

Ok this really is dumb, but we all know "Swallow on My Neck" was about Jake. OK??? Listen to the lyrics. "Until he drew a swallow on my neck And more I will not say, He drew a swallow deep and blue, and soon everyone knew" Everone knew what????? That Moz and Jake just like to lay all over each others crotches in photos for the artistic purpose. This is just one example out of about 60 I think of, but it's pretty clear!
 
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