Well [expletive]! Morrissey was right!

[Anonymous]

“New York court dismisses Kevin Spacey sexual assault lawsuit

A New York court has dismissed a sexual assault lawsuit against the actor Kevin Spacey.
The case was brought by Anthony Rapp, who says the actor inappropriately touched him at a party in 1986 when he was aged 14.”

More:

New York court dismisses Kevin Spacey sexual assault lawsuit

The case was brought by Anthony Rapp, who had been seeking around $40m (£36m) in damages.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Anonymous]

It's too late. Those who were offended have already burned their collections and vowed never to listen to Morrissey again.

 

[Anonymous]

“Morrissey defends controversial comments about Kevin Spacey

"It can be just a pathetic attempt at courtship."
ByNick Reilly
27th November 2017”

Morrissey defends controversial comments about Kevin Spacey

Morrissey has defended his comments about Kevin Spacey after claiming that the Oscar winning actor has been "attacked unnecessarily"

www.nme.com

 

[Barking]

"It can be just a pathetic attempt at courtship."

Yeah, Morrissey would know about those.

 

[NealCassidy]

The allegations seem to amount to nothing anyway in the details?

 

[Anonymous]

I know some (ex) fans who literally quoted this as the statement that made them bin their records and stop listening to him.

 

[StalinsPipe]

We were discussing the ‘healthy discussions’
on solo.

So where is Morrissey getting this ‘sycophancy and uncritical support’ ? if he doesn’t visit solo?



We all know that in the beginning M was aware of this site and had a falling out with David.
But there’s no proof that he visits here
to take advice from the comments posted, good or bad.

Oh, I know he doesn't visit here now, and I never said he did. But sycophants still sycophant. I particularly remember people going out of their way to defend him when he victim shamed the victims of Spacey and Weinstein, which was a low point.

By the way, I enjoy our little chats. You're alright to speak to, unlike some others on here!

 

[gashonthenail]

Oh, I know he doesn't visit here now, and I never said he did. But sycophants still sycophant. I particularly remember people going out of their way to defend him when he victim shamed the victims of Spacey and Weinstein, which was a low point.

By the way, I enjoy our little chats. You're alright to speak to, unlike some others on here!

Lest you forget...

New York court dismisses Kevin Spacey sexual assault lawsuit

The case was brought by Anthony Rapp, who had been seeking around $40m (£36m) in damages.

www.bbc.co.uk

On Thursday, following a three-week civil trial in a Manhattan federal court, a jury found that Mr Rapp had not proved his claim that Mr Spacey had made an unwanted sexual advance.

Moz made it quite clear that he found the idea of coercing anyone into sex abhorrent. He didn't 'victim shame' anyone. What woke jargon you use. He certainly doesn't bow down and worship at the altar of 'victimhood' as you seem to do. He probably had enough of that being brought up a Catholic. Moz merely pointed out that sex, and the morality of sex, is grey, not black and white. It's why juries across the world often struggle to convict in such cases. And the evidence is consistent that in sex cases a female juror is less likely to convict than a male juror. So to blame it on 'the patriarchy' just doesn't explain it. It's because women are smart and understand better the complexities and nuances of human interactions.
Also consider that every night of his current tour, Moz has sang IBEH to a backdrop of Oscar Wilde. Wilde was not convicted for 'being gay', as we like to tell ourselves, patting ourselves on the back for being a 'more tolerant' age. He was convicted for paying young men to have sex with him. Several of the young men were 'under age' by current consent laws. If Wilde were alive today, he could be convicted and shamed all over again. In reality we have become more moralistic about sex, not less. Strange, considering we are supposedly more 'secular' and less religious. It is a strange world where pinching someone's bottom is a 'sex crime' that causes the victim 'trauma'. When I was a teenager, being groped in a crowded bar would be described as a good night out.

 

[Redacted]

Lest you forget...

New York court dismisses Kevin Spacey sexual assault lawsuit

The case was brought by Anthony Rapp, who had been seeking around $40m (£36m) in damages.

www.bbc.co.uk

On Thursday, following a three-week civil trial in a Manhattan federal court, a jury found that Mr Rapp had not proved his claim that Mr Spacey had made an unwanted sexual advance.

Moz made it quite clear that he found the idea of coercing anyone into sex abhorrent. He didn't 'victim shame' anyone. What woke jargon you use. He certainly doesn't bow down and worship at the altar of 'victimhood' as you seem to do. He probably had enough of that being brought up a Catholic. Moz merely pointed out that sex, and the morality of sex, is grey, not black and white. It's why juries across the world often struggle to convict in such cases. And the evidence is consistent that in sex cases a female juror is less likely to convict than a male juror. So to blame it on 'the patriarchy' just doesn't explain it. It's because women are smart and understand better the complexities and nuances of human interactions.
Also consider that every night of his current tour, Moz has sang IBEH to a backdrop of Oscar Wilde. Wilde was not convicted for 'being gay', as we like to tell ourselves, patting ourselves on the back for being a 'more tolerant' age. He was convicted for paying young men to have sex with him. Several of the young men were 'under age' by current consent laws. If Wilde were alive today, he could be convicted and shamed all over again. In reality we have become more moralistic about sex, not less. Strange, considering we are supposedly more 'secular' and less religious. It is a strange world where pinching someone's bottom is a 'sex crime' that causes the victim 'trauma'. When I was a teenager, being groped in a crowded bar would be described as a good night out.

Wow, this entire post is despicable and just wrong. For reference, I am a lawyer, I have worked on these kind of cases, so I have plenty of experience here. And for the record, Morrissey most certainly did victim blame. That is not being woke, that is a fact. He blamed a 14 year old for just being there. Spacey being found not guilty years later is irrelevant to this conversation because at the time Morrissey made his comments, Spacey had apologized and had not denied the accusations. Your Wilde history needs a lot of work. Weinstein was convicted, noticed you didn't touch that one. However, your comments about make unwanted sexual advances toward someone is 'a good night out' probably says it all. What you described is fourth degree sexual assault, and it is a crime.

 

[snoddywilko]

Wow, this entire post is despicable and just wrong. For reference, I am a lawyer, I have worked on these kind of cases, so I have plenty of experience here. And for the record, Morrissey most certainly did victim blame. That is not being woke, that is a fact. He blamed a 14 year old for just being there. Spacey being found not guilty years later is irrelevant to this conversation because at the time Morrissey made his comments, Spacey had apologized and had not denied the accusations. Your Wilde history needs a lot of work. Weinstein was convicted, noticed you didn't touch that one. However, your comments about make unwanted sexual advances toward someone is 'a good night out' probably says it all. What you described is fourth degree sexual assault, and it is a crime.

It’s been a while since I read that interview but it didn’t come across as Morrissey victim-shaming the young boy, more that he was asking where the parents were & why their 14 yr old son was left to attend adult parties like that. Yes, Spacey was the predator but don’t the parents have some responsibility to protect their child?

For the record, I have no doubts that Spacey was guilty of all he was accused of. In the early 00’s one of my friends worked as a magician at Harrod’s & attended a number of the parties where Spacey was accused of committing his crimes. Many times my friend spoke about Spacey constantly disappearing into bedrooms with young guys; everybody was aware that it was happening. So yeh, when the accusations first became public, I wasn’t surprised.

 

[Redacted]

It’s been a while since I read that interview but it didn’t come across as Morrissey victim-shaming the young boy, more that he was asking where the parents were & why their 14 yr old son was left to attend adult parties like that. Yes, Spacey was the predator but don’t the parents have some responsibility to protect their child?

For the record, I have no doubts that Spacey was guilty of all he was accused of. In the early 00’s one of my friends worked as a magician at Harrod’s & attended a number of the parties where Spacey was accused of committing his crimes. Many times my friend spoke about Spacey constantly disappearing into bedrooms with young guys; everybody was aware that it was happening. So yeh, when the accusations first became public, I wasn’t surprised.

Morrissey was victim shaming, what is said was the equivalent of 'why was your skirt so short?'. It doesn't matter why a 14 year old was at that party, it's irrelevant, it did not give Spacey the right to put his hands on him. My recollection is Rapp's mother did not know he was there, he lied about where he was going because he wanted to hang out with the adults he worked with. At a firm I worked at, we had high school kids come in after school from a nearby private school to do clerical work and filing as an internship that they could put on their resume when looking for a job. We kept some on for the summer. We also did this at another firm I worked at. I would like to think that any one of those kids would be welcome at any one of our parties and would be safe too.

 

[gashonthenail]

Morrissey was victim shaming, what is said was the equivalent of 'why was your skirt so short?'. It doesn't matter why a 14 year old was at that party, it's irrelevant, it did not give Spacey the right to put his hands on him. My recollection is Rapp's mother did not know he was there, he lied about where he was going because he wanted to hang out with the adults he worked with. At a firm I worked at, we had high school kids come in after school from a nearby private school to do clerical work and filing as an internship that they could put on their resume when looking for a job. We kept some on for the summer. We also did this at another firm I worked at. I would like to think that any one of those kids would be welcome at any one of our parties and would be safe too.

As a lawyer you shouldn't need reminding that the jury threw out Rapp's civil law suit. And it was a civil case, in other words the burden of proof needed was just 'balance of probabilities', I think in the USA they use the term 'clear and convincing' - rather than the 'beyond reasonable doubt' needed in a criminal case. And at that lower burden of proof the jury - 6 men and 6 women - still found that Rapp's case just wasn't proved.
To compare the allegation made by Rapp to rape is just absurd. He alleged that Spacey pushed him back onto a bed and lay on top of him, both fully clothed. Nothing further was alleged. No attempt to forcibly kiss, no undoing of any clothing, no groping of any kind. Rapp then removed himself from the situation and left the party. Again, no allegation that Spacey tried to stop him leaving.
There are other allegations made against Spacey by others that are very serious. This wasn't one of them. And the jury agreed.
I think the average teenager who accepts an invite to a party with a group of adults, gay or straight, who are partying, and there is alcohol, would do so in the knowledge that something like that might happen. And if unwanted, as long as it stopped immediately, I don't think the average person would view that as sexual assault and something that should go to court. And the jury agreed. I think we need less involvement of the police and the courts in human interactions and human relationships, not more. In serious cases, yes, of course, but not in allegations of this kind. This allegation was verging on trivial.

 

[Redacted]

As a lawyer you shouldn't need reminding that the jury threw out Rapp's civil law suit. And it was a civil case, in other words the burden of proof needed was just 'balance of probabilities', I think in the USA they use the term 'clear and convincing' - rather than the 'beyond reasonable doubt' needed in a criminal case. And at that lower burden of proof the jury - 6 men and 6 women - still found that Rapp's case just wasn't proved.
To compare the allegation made by Rapp to rape is just absurd. He alleged that Spacey pushed him back onto a bed and lay on top of him, both fully clothed. Nothing further was alleged. No attempt to forcibly kiss, no undoing of any clothing, no groping of any kind. Rapp then removed himself from the situation and left the party. Again, no allegation that Spacey tried to stop him leaving.
There are other allegations made against Spacey by others that are very serious. This wasn't one of them. And the jury agreed.
I think the average teenager who accepts an invite to a party with a group of adults, gay or straight, who are partying, and there is alcohol, would do so in the knowledge that something like that might happen. And if unwanted, as long as it stopped immediately, I don't think the average person would view that as sexual assault and something that should go to court. And the jury agreed. I think we need less involvement of the police and the courts in human interactions and human relationships, not more. In serious cases, yes, of course, but not in allegations of this kind. This allegation was verging on trivial.

Stop, you just keep repeating yourself. I did not read much of this and won't be reading any more from you since this is completely irrelevant to Morrissey's defense of Spacey at a time when Spacey admitted he did this, as well as Morrissey's defense of Weinstein.

 

[gashonthenail]

Where have I said I hated Morrissey? I thought you were quite reasonable, but I'm pretty disappointed that you're now just making things up. Have I offended you somehow? I'd agree that people who hate obsessively are also unhealthy - they're the other side on the coin with the sycophants.

The K-hole thing wasn't an insult by the way. It's a nice way of shortening your name.

You did state the following: I have a love-hate relationship with Morrissey. I love who he was, and hate what he has become.
That does kind of suggest you hate the Morrissey of 2022. I know that wasn't quite what you were saying, but still. Maybe it would have been better to say - I hate some of the things he has said and done. Or maybe even - I hate some of the things he has said and done based on my interpretation of those things.
Your view of Morrissey in 2022 isn't fact. It's your view. I respect your view. But I have a different interpretation of the things Morrissey has said and done that you suggest are hateful. But also, why do you think they are worthy of hate? If Moz said, bring back Jeremy Corbyn, let's have a far left government - I wouldn't find that 'hateful'. I would simply disagree with him. Why have we got to the point where someone says something you disagree with, and that person needs to be 'hated'? Like they have committed some sort of sin.

 

[gashonthenail]

Stop, you just keep repeating yourself. I did not read much of this and won't be reading any more from you since this is completely irrelevant to Morrissey's defense of Spacey at a time when Spacey admitted he did this, as well as Morrissey's defense of Weinstein.

You are clearly open to hearing the other point of view. What a great lawyer you must make.
And you are factually inaccurate in your post. Spacey didn't admit he did it. Following the allegation he released a statement saying he had no memory of the night in question and if anything like that did happen he was sorry. That's not admitting it. And again, the jury agreed.