Was Morrissey right to turn down the opportunity to reform the Smiths in 2008 (with Marr and Rourke)

Was Morrissey right to turn down the opportunity to reform the Smiths in 2008 (with Marr and Rourke)


  • Total voters
    25

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
Last edited:

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
that's THE MIGHTY FALL to you sir.

now think on.

:cool:

Yes my dear. :love:
I understand now, the AlMIGHTY FALL. :pray:
But not almighty enough to prevent them from FALLing.
Was isn't Shakespeare who asked: What's in a name? :confused:
It was.
Bad name in itself, predicting disaster upon them. :squiffy:
The should have called themselves The Smiths.
Just curious to know which name Moz would have chosen than.:blushing:
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
Yes my dear. :love:
I understand now, the AlMIGHTY FALL. :pray:
But not almighty enough to prevent them from FALLing.
Was isn't Shakespeare who asked: What's in a name? :confused:
It was.
Bad name in itself, predicting disaster upon them. :squiffy:
The should have called themselves The Smiths.
Just curious to know which name Moz would have chosen than.:blushing:

the Smiths have fallen.... but the Fall keep on rolling !

So watch out !
 

Surface

Vegan Cro’s parents regret the condom splitting
yeah, an artist sells a lot of records .... they MUST be good !!! :crazy::rofl:!

So in that case you must have lots of records in your collection from Adele and Gaga to Hootie and the f***ing Blowfish ?! :laughing:

what? no? but they're gooood!, they sold a lot of records! the masses can't be wrong ! :rolleyes:

You said "crap band, brought nothing new to the table" I was pointing out that a lot of people beg to differ including a lot of industry people who hand out awards.

However if you had said, In my opinion, crap band, brought nothing new to the table, I wouldn't have responded as it would be your opinion.
 

messengers

New Member
In his autobiography, Morrissey states something like 'years later, Johnny clamors for a comeback.' And then Morrissey proceeds that Johnny should have known that his behavior around the lawsuit should have repercussions for the future, or something in that vein. I think that Morrissey just tested the waters, to find out whether Johnny was interested in a reunion. And that it was some kind of ego massage or revenge for Morrissey to be able to, passively as is his modus operandi, turn down Johnny's reunion plans by not replying to his e-mails anymore. A kind of belated revenge for Johnny leaving the band in 1987. A pity, as there is nothing I would like to see more than a Smiths reunion.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
In his autobiography, Morrissey states something like 'years later, Johnny clamors for a comeback.' And then Morrissey proceeds that Johnny should have known that his behavior around the lawsuit should have repercussions for the future, or something in that vein. I think that Morrissey just tested the waters, to find out whether Johnny was interested in a reunion. And that it was some kind of ego massage or revenge for Morrissey to be able to, passively as is his modus operandi, turn down Johnny's reunion plans by not replying to his e-mails anymore. A kind of belated revenge for Johnny leaving the band in 1987. A pity, as there is nothing I would like to see more than a Smiths reunion.

He could have also just been enjoying talking to him and indulging in the conversation with no serious intention. This was what I took from it though the recollection related seems kinda vague so it's hard to tell
 

messengers

New Member
He could have also just been enjoying talking to him and indulging in the conversation with no serious intention. This was what I took from it though the recollection related seems kinda vague so it's hard to tell

According to what Johnny said, to him it appeared intentions were serious. A follow up meeting was planned and specifics were discussed (no Joyce, understandably). We'll probably never know.

I wish they'd follow it up. I am not of the 'don't tarnish the perfect memory' camp. I don't care about keeping their perfect legacy of the 80s intact, I want more Marr/Morrissey music. Even if they don't reach the stratosperic heights of the 80s, it would still surpass all current rock offerings. I don't mind if bands don't reach their old level. The new Pixies albums are not on a par with the classics, but still it's great to have them back and I will see them live later this month, which I am grateful for.

For me, as for many others, Morrissey and Marr apart cannot reach the greatness of The Smiths, their chemistry together is unique. Morrissey has made great, great solo work, and his best songs equal The Smiths; the song structures of Morrissey solo are mostly much more ordinary and less unique than The Smiths'. 'Suedehead' is one of the very few solo songs that match Marr's blistering guitar parts, thanks to mr Reilly. And to me, the quality of his work has dropped, still great but The Smiths are the best band in the world to me. His last very great album to me is Vauxhall and I, an album I prefer over The Smiths debut album (but not their others). And apart from a few songs (Dashboard, Nothing but flowers, New town velocity), I miss the brilliance of The Smiths and the voice of Morrissey when I listen to Marr's later work. Without Marr, Morrissey is a charismatic personality and interesting songwriter with a competent backing band; and Marr has lost the intensity and brilliance he had as composer and songwriter when with The Smiths.

I know it's over, still I cling...
but as Jeff Buckley once said...lover, you should have come over... it's not too late...
 

messengers

New Member
The chemistry is that they are both unique at their respective art. Listen to the compositions of 'This charming man', 'How soon is now', 'The headmaster ritual', 'Stop me if you think...', 'William it was really nothing', 'Heaven knows I'm miserable now', 'Still ill' and 'Bigmouth strikes again'. From a compositional perspective and in terms of guitar playing level, NOTHING in the Morrissey solo canon matches this. The compositions and guitar parts of the solo canon are all nice and competent, but nothing you haven't heard before elsewhere. That's young Johnny Marr for you. This is one part that made The Smiths one of the best bands ever. Joyce and especially Rourke were a pretty formidable rhytm section too.

Then the lyrics and voice of Morrissey. His voice is like marmite but it's unique. Took me years to get used to, but I am addicted to it now. Morrissey's lyrics, when on form, are among the best, and they are unique and incredibly witty. Think The Queen is dead, Vicar in a tutu, her walkman started to melt, that's nothing you should hear me play pianer, Anthony said to Cleopatra, as he opened a crate of ale, sending frightening verse to a buck toothed girl in Luxembourg,
And the pain was enough to make A shy, bald, Buddhist reflect and plan a mass murder... the lyrics of How soon is now are exactly my life when I was a student. Inimitable, this man. Johnny Marr has played with many great bands afterwards, Talking heads are one of my favorite bands.... but it's not The Smiths.

Both Morrissey and Marr are in a pretty comfortable place (yes, Morrissey too), but they're not on their way to make any astounding music in the future. Can't see Morrissey improving much on World peace (which is a nice album but nothing special to me), and Marr has started a good but not extraordinary solo career. If they want to create more footnotes in music history and make the world listen, they have to reunite. Morrissey and Johnny had the best of each other, they spur each other to greater heights. That's their blessing and their curse, they will always be linked to each other, whether they want it or not. Just like John and Paul.

Life is short and they should get the most out of it. But I respect they are not on speaking terms anymore and have no appetite to do the thing so many people want them to do. It's their life and they don't have a responsibility to make us happy. Still, I will never lose hope for a reunion, as long as they're both alive (well, in ten years time they'd be a bit too old for an energetic reunion).
 
Last edited:
A

Anonymous

Guest
The chemistry is that they are both unique at their respective art. Listen to the compositions of 'This charming man', 'How soon is now', 'The headmaster ritual', 'Stop me if you think...', 'William it was really nothing', 'Heaven knows I'm miserable now', 'Still ill' and 'Bigmouth strikes again'. From a compositional perspective and in terms of guitar playing level, NOTHING in the Morrissey solo canon matches this. The compositions and guitar parts of the solo canon are all nice and competent, but nothing you haven't heard before elsewhere. That's young Johnny Marr for you. This is one part that made The Smiths one of the best bands ever.

Then the lyrics and voice of Morrissey. His voice is like marmite but it's unique. Took me years to get used to, but I am addicted to it now. Morrissey's lyrics, when on form, are among the best, and they are unique and incredibly witty. Think The Queen is dead, Vicar in a tutu, her walkman started to melt, that's nothing you should hear me play pianer, Anthony said to Cleopatra, as he opened a crate of ale, sending frightening verse to a buck toothed girl in Luxembourg,
And the pain was enough to make A shy, bald, Buddhist reflect and plan a mass murder... the lyrics of How soon is now are exactly my life when I was a student. Inimitable, this man. Johnny Marr has played with many great bands afterwards, Talking heads are one of my favorite bands.... but it's not The Smiths.

Life is short and they should get the most out of it. But I respect they are not on speaking terms anymore and have no appetite to do the thing so many people want them to do. It's their life and they don't have a responsibility to make us happy. Still, I will never lose hope for a reunion, as long as they're both alive (well, in ten years time they'd be a bit too old for an energetic reunion).

I'm split I guess. Of course I'd like more great music and of course I'd just be curious but the part of me that's thinking as a person and not just a fan is more cautious. I wouldn't want to see them do it for reasons that negate that chemistry which I think made there music so good and judging from this meeting and its result i don't believe it's there anymore. They're different people now with different goals and honestly I'm not sure if they'd enjoy the experience which would be sad. I wouldn't want them to do it for financial reasons or that there solo work isn't getting as much attention as they think it should and part of me wonders if this is the case. I really liked the messenger but of course couldn't help think about what it would have been like if morrissey had sung in it and while I love morrissey so post smiths work much more than johnnys who hasn't thought I wonder how marr would add to this song. I personally thought world peace was his most musically textured and rich album. The blocks and hand claps on kiss me a lot make me smile and I loved the Spanish guitar and subtle keyboard effects found on the song. The album broke out an accordion. I find world peace one of his best honestly and rate it better than quarry these days topped only by bona drag with quarry and swords close behind. As for suedhead, I find it a good song a really love viva hate, but that songs guitar part is really simple. Though also kinda simple musically I much preferred Sunday. I think the song that most sounds like the smiths guitar wise is November spawned a monster
 

messengers

New Member
Composition-wise, Everyday is like sunday is one of Morrissey's best songs, including The Smiths. An evergreen. More commercial and relatable for the public at large than anything he did with The Smiths. To me, Everyday and Suedehead seem like a special no man's land between The Smiths and his solo work, two songs that are more accessible and towering than anything on Strangeways. The Smiths couldn't have improved on these songs; these songs would easily have made a Smiths 'best of' album. Apparently, there was still some Smiths-stardust flying around.

I'm sure IF Morrissey and Marr would reunite, they'd only do it if the chemistry was right. That's exactly why they haven't done it yet. I think they have very high standards and their integrity is impeccable.
They would never do a reunion tour if it wouldn't live up to expectations or if the chemistry wasn't right. As we all know, Morrissey and Marr are not prone to compromise their actions, they only want to do things they believe in 100% and otherwise they'll walk. That's why I think a reunion would be fantastic. Morrissey's voice is better than ever and Marr hasn't lost his guitar skills.
 
Last edited:
A

Anonymous

Guest
Composition-wise, Everyday is like sunday is one of Morrissey's best songs, including The Smiths. An evergreen. More commercial and relatable for the public at large than anything he did with The Smiths.
I'm sure IF Morrissey and Marr would reunite, they'd only do it if the chemistry was right. That's exactly why they haven't done it yet. I think they have very high standards and their integrity is impeccable.
They would never do a reunion tour if it wouldn't live up to expectations or if the chemistry wasn't right. That's why I think a reunion would be fantastic. Morrissey's voice is better than ever and Marr hasn't lost his guitar skills.

I don't know about commercial as I was born in nineteen eighty so when I came of age slipknot could be commercial, was commercial I should say, and the smiths sound like obvious pop stars so it's hard for me to relate to the idea of the smiths not being super commercial. I don't much about commerciality though outside a general interest in social trends and being happy that people like what I think is good music and that bands I like with people I like are making money. All good for them. As to Sunday yeah I love the song but it lacks Marrs complex guitar parts which I really liked in the smiths. Try playing a song like ask, a silly song with silly lyrics (yes morrissey wrote silly lyrics even then) and its hard. At least I found it difficult when first looking at the tablature. Morrisseys writing with the vocal melody and really the whole songs composition on Sunday is super sweet but for me to bump it up to smiths level of enjoyment it'd need something fuller or busier in the guitar parts. that's how I think of the smiths music
 

messengers

New Member
Of course 'Everyday' is musically less complex and more straightforward than most Smiths songs, but musically it works very well, everything in its right place, it sounds great and the lyrics are very accessible and relatable compared to many Smiths songs. And there is a chorus that -almost- matches the glory of 'There is a light'. I think this is a better song than most Smiths songs. Another 'hidden gem' that could have been a Smiths song to me is 'Why don't you find out for yourself' off Vauxhall and I. The guitar and Morrissey's voice are simple, but flow so easily, could have been Marr playing guitar, and that's a compliment. One of my favorite solo songs. If you listen to solo favorites like Speedway, You're the one for me, fatty, We hate it when... and Irish blood, English heart. Great songs, the guitar rocks but in a straightforward way, there's a lot of guitar players who could have written those parts. Marr could have done those better. My favorite Marr guitar parts are Headmaster (the intro!), Stop me (the intro!), Heaven knows (the guitar intro and arrangements!), How soon is now, This charming man (the African vibe with the high notes), William (the instrumental parts!), Bigmouth (guitar attack): all unique, no one can play those parts like Marr.
 

ACTON

Don't Leave Us In The Dark
It's almost an impossible question to answer because it would depend on whether or not they had good enough material to release a new Smiths record. There would be no point reforming if they only had ideas for a couple of songs.

So I think a more relevant question would be: should they have got together in a studio to see if they can even work together?
  • If yes but only enough material for one or two songs then they could have released a single with b-sides, with proceeds going to charity. And then call it a day.
  • If yes but loads of material then proceed in making an album.
  • However, they could also have gone down the SUEDE route and get together with a view to playing three or four concerts (possibly for charity), and then reform if the old chemistry is there.
    • That way nobody has egg on their faces if they go their separate ways. SUEDE hit it off and went on to produce two of the best albums of their careers (especially Night Thoughts).
    • They could have released one of the concerts on CD for charity, just like New Order and The Cure did for their Bestival concerts on the Isle of Wight
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Of course 'Everyday' is musically less complex and more straightforward than most Smiths songs, but musically it works very well, everything in its right place, it sounds great and the lyrics are very accessible and relatable compared to many Smiths songs. And there is a chorus that -almost- matches the glory of 'There is a light'. I think this is a better song than most Smiths songs. Another 'hidden gem' that could have been a Smiths song to me is 'Why don't you find out for yourself' off Vauxhall and I. The guitar and Morrissey's voice are simple, but flow so easily, could have been Marr playing guitar, and that's a compliment. One of my favorite solo songs. If you listen to solo favorites like Speedway, You're the one for me, fatty, We hate it when... and Irish blood, English heart. Great songs, the guitar rocks but in a straightforward way, there's a lot of guitar players who could have written those parts. Marr could have done those better. My favorite Marr guitar parts are Headmaster (the intro!), Stop me (the intro!), Heaven knows (the guitar intro and arrangements!), How soon is now, This charming man (the African vibe with the high notes), William (the instrumental parts!), Bigmouth (guitar attack): all unique, no one can play those parts like Marr.

Well I think it's important to say that at some point it's hard to straight up compare songs as in terms of what's better or not and that the songs you love sorta pass a plateau where you just love them and that's it. I do love Sunday a whole lot. The vocal I think is as good as anything he did in the smiths and of course the chorus is the climax. I just really enjoyed how the smiths made music so noodle and complex but at the same time kept it so catchy and pop oriented. Kinda like Bernard era suede imo. I kinda marvel at those people. I don't however need something to be super complex to consider it great or to love it and there are plenty of mom solo songs that I find refreshing for there straightforwardness and work well for it. I also listen to and enjoy a lot of music that's not exactly complex. Hell I just posted a gutter mouth song in the other section that I liked. Agree with you about headmaster though. That's the kind of playing I like most from marr. Like the riff for hand in glove or heaven as you mentioned. I also will say I liked the melodic bass parts andy played and felt them a large part of the songs as well. Or at least my enjoyment of them
 

Ketamine Sun

<><><><><><><>
You said "crap band, brought nothing new to the table" I was pointing out that a lot of people beg to differ including a lot of industry people who hand out awards.

However if you had said, In my opinion, crap band, brought nothing new to the table, I wouldn't have responded as it would be your opinion.

In my opinion and in the opinion of ALL the people who did not buy their records they are a crap band.

satisfied ? :cool:
 

Quando quando quando

Well-Known Member
In my opinion and in the opinion of ALL the people who did not buy their records they are a crap band.

satisfied ? :cool:

Yes. I am.
You are safely with the majority there.
But it's the same with The Fall. ;)
 
Top Bottom