Vauxhall and I is Overrated

[Peterb]

When I first joined this post it was to agree with threads proposition. But after reading all the posts I thought I'd give it another go and true enough it is great.
An album that has recieved alot of brickbats is Malajusted. Whilst I'd agree that there are some poor tracks, I think the ratio is pretty high. Roys Keen is a masterpiece.

 

[Fulham Road Lights]

When I first joined this post it was to agree with threads proposition. But after reading all the posts I thought I'd give it another go and true enough it is great.
An album that has recieved alot of brickbats is Malajusted. Whilst I'd agree that there are some poor tracks, I think the ratio is pretty high. Roys Keen is a masterpiece.

Finally someone else who likes Roy's Keen! I'm not alone, hurray

 

[denzy]

The albums high praise is worth it alone just for SPEEDWAY

 

[Pokey]

Not my favorite Moz album but I love it, so many classic tracks, its tender and delicate. However the production is probably what lets it down for me, it just sounds a little flat.

 

[Mozmanc]

Considering that the rest of the world, with few exceptions, doesn't even know about the existence of an album called "Vauxhall and I", I'd say it's incredibly underrated.

precisely this. Its a very very good album, with some standout tunes of moz brilliance

 

[Borewhore]

...My favourite Morrissey album is probably Ringleader of the Torementors though is that a bad choice?... Perhaps I just have poor taste!

You do.

 

[Peterb]

Hey ThemanwhowouldbeKing, I agree, I think Ringleader is clearly the strongest album of his late period. What do you think of Malajusted?

 

[Worm]

Favourite solo record.

Now My Heart Is Full: 10/10
Spring Heeled Jim: 8/10
Billy Budd: 5/10
Hold On To Your Friends: 7/10
More You Ignore Me: 4/10
Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself: 7/10
I Am Hated For Loving: 5/10
Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning: 6/10
Used To Be A Sweet Boy: 9/10
The Lazy Sunbathers: 6/10
Speedway: 10/10

EDIT: I've just listened to The Lazy Sunbathers for the first time in aaages and I'd completely forgotten how wonderful the end of the song is just as it slides into Speedway. Tremendous.

Not really disagreeing with you, and I respect your opinion, but...

May I point out that your post illustrates why some people dare to call "Vauxhall and I" overrated? It's the album everyone talks about as his best, or up there with his best, and you say it's your favorite. Fair enough. Like I said, I can't really argue with that assessment. But unless your rubric is different than most people's, you've given 5 of the 11 tracks on the album, almost half, a below-average rating (two fives, two sixes, and one four). I think the reason some people believe "Vauxhall and I" is overrated is because they suspect those who love it don't really love it as much as they claim. I mean, how can you call an album great when almost every other song is a 6 or lower? If your ratings are accurate (and they probably are, for the most part...) then most people would get up to sweep the garage or water the lawn right around the middle of the album.

Unless a 5 or a 6 is okay in your book, I'd think an album would have to be almost entirely 8s, 9s, and 10s to be considered a great album. Am I just using a different scale? Because I cannot imagine loving an album with that many crap tunes on it.

 

[Maurice E]

Not really disagreeing with you, and I respect your opinion, but...

May I point out that your post illustrates why some people dare to call "Vauxhall and I" overrated? It's the album everyone talks about as his best, or up there with his best, and you say it's your favorite. Fair enough. Like I said, I can't really argue with that assessment. But unless your rubric is different than most people's, you've given 5 of the 11 tracks on the album, almost half, a below-average rating (two fives, two sixes, and one four). I think the reason some people believe "Vauxhall and I" is overrated is because they suspect those who love it don't really love it as much as they claim. I mean, how can you call an album great when almost every other song is a 6 or lower? If your ratings are accurate (and they probably are, for the most part...) then most people would get up to sweep the garage or water the lawn right around the middle of the album.
Unless a 5 or a 6 is okay in your book, I'd think an album would have to be almost entirely 8s, 9s, and 10s to be considered a great album. Am I just using a different scale? Because I cannot imagine loving an album with that many crap tunes on it.

Good point well made, the Worm (as always). I've always been a bit baffled by the acclaim poured on Vauxhall. I guess it's just about the best of the post-Street albums but, to me, it's nowhere near primetime Smiths or early 'solo.
My ratings (for what it's worth):

Now My Heart Is Full: 9/10
Spring Heeled Jim: 6/10
Billy Budd: 7/10
Hold On To Your Friends: 6/10 (cracking intro/verses - feeble chorus)
More You Ignore Me: 9/10
Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself: 8/10
I Am Hated For Loving: 6/10
Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning: 6/10
Used To Be A Sweet Boy: 9/10
The Lazy Sunbathers: 6/10
Speedway: 7/10

 

[Raphael Lambach]

You're narrow-minded..that's why you think Vauxhall é overrated.

 

[CrookedLittleVein]

Good point well made, the Worm (as always). I've always been a bit baffled by the acclaim poured on Vauxhall. I guess it's just about the best of the post-Street albums but, to me, it's nowhere near primetime Smiths or early 'solo.
My ratings (for what it's worth):

Now My Heart Is Full: 9/10
Spring Heeled Jim: 6/10
Billy Budd: 7/10
Hold On To Your Friends: 6/10 (cracking intro/verses - feeble chorus)
More You Ignore Me: 9/10
Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself: 8/10
I Am Hated For Loving: 6/10
Lifeguard Sleeping, Girl Drowning: 6/10
Used To Be A Sweet Boy: 9/10
The Lazy Sunbathers: 6/10
Speedway: 7/10

I struggle with the whole idea of the mathematisation of art.

When I experience a work of art, my response is strange and confused, encompassing intellect, imagination and emotions (at least that's what it feels like). It’s a bit of a mess, to be honest. With great art, I often don’t know how I feel about it at all, other than it’s knocked my socks off.

What would I give Blake’s ‘The Four Zoas’ out of ten? I really don’t know. I just know it’s profoundly moving, invigorating and that it lights fires in my imagination. It induced something very much like a panic attack whilst I was reading it one lunchtime in Sayers (eating an egg custard). Does this mean it rates 8 out of 10, 9 out of 10, or is it off the scale?

‘Vauxhall and I’ is just wonderful. Every song hits home. When the album’s finished, more than any other (solo or Smiths), I feel like I’ve really experienced something, not just listened to a bunch of great songs. I always feel a bit dreamy afterwards and at a loose-end. Not sure what that means. Certainly wouldn’t know where it ranks on a scale of 1 to 10.

I’ve participated in the various polls on this site, but I always feel like I want to go back and change my answers almost immediately. I always feel like I kind of missed the point somehow, that I haven’t even come close to communicating how I feel about the song or how it’s touched me. I mean, if I gave ‘Now My Heart is Full’ 10/10 and ‘Black Cloud’ 7/10, what does that three integer difference actually mean? I haven’t the foggiest.

I mean, what does 6/10 mean in relation to The Lazy Sunbathers? Does it mean it’s not quite ‘meh’? Mathematically, 6/10 implies it’s a little above average, that it’s hardly worth the effort of listening to and certainly not worth the time and expense spent recording it.

Please don’t see this as an attack on your position. I know how much you like your data. But I really don’t get it. Well, I get it, I understand what these numbers are intended to convey... but I just don’t get it.

I think it’s me.

 

[Worm]

I struggle with the whole idea of the mathematisation of art.

When I experience a work of art, my response is strange and confused, encompassing intellect, imagination and emotions (at least that's what it feels like). It’s a bit of a mess, to be honest. With great art, I often don’t know how I feel about it at all, other than it’s knocked my socks off.

What would I give Blake’s ‘The Four Zoas’ out of ten? I really don’t know. I just know it’s profoundly moving, invigorating and that it lights fires in my imagination. It induced something very much like a panic attack whilst I was reading it one lunchtime in Sayers (eating an egg custard). Does this mean it rates 8 out of 10, 9 out of 10, or is it off the scale?

‘Vauxhall and I’ is just wonderful. Every song hits home. When the album’s finished, more than any other (solo or Smiths), I feel like I’ve really experienced something, not just listened to a bunch of great songs. I always feel a bit dreamy afterwards and at a loose-end. Not sure what that means. Certainly wouldn’t know where it ranks on a scale of 1 to 10.

I’ve participated in the various polls on this site, but I always feel like I want to go back and change my answers almost immediately. I always feel like I kind of missed the point somehow, that I haven’t even come close to communicating how I feel about the song or how it’s touched me. I mean, if I gave ‘Now My Heart is Full’ 10/10 and ‘Black Cloud’ 7/10, what does that three integer difference actually mean? I haven’t the foggiest.

I mean, what does 6/10 mean in relation to The Lazy Sunbathers? Does it mean it’s not quite ‘meh’? Mathematically, 6/10 implies it’s a little above average, that it’s hardly worth the effort of listening to and certainly not worth the time and expense spent recording it.

Please don’t see this as an attack on your position. I know how much you like your data. But I really don’t get it. Well, I get it, I understand what these numbers are intended to convey... but I just don’t get it.

I think it’s me.

Don't think of the numbers as an attempt to measure the quality of the songs themselves. They can be taken as relative measurements, and in that sense they are useful. The numbers in Maurice E's post show which songs he regards as superior to the others: it's a quick and easy way of conveying that he thinks "Now My Heart Is Full", "The More You Ignore Me", and "Used To Be A Sweet Boy" are the three best songs, while 'Sunbathers', 'Loving', and 'Jim' are the worst. In a similar vein, while it's folly to try and figure out the difference between a 10 and a 9, it is helpful as a general guide to say that one song is a 9 and another a 5-- whatever the numbers mean, you can see how the person values them in relation to each other.

 

[FlatulentPainInTheAss]

It's difficult for me to pinpoint my favorite Morrissey album because he has never matched the Queen is Dead an album which I think is almost perfect if it weren't for Vicar in a Tutu which is ok. The closest I think he has come is Your Arsenal which I love except for Tomorrow and Glamorous Glue which are ok. I do agree that Vauxhall and I is not his opus as many describe because Spring-Heeled Jim, Billy Budd, and I am Hated for Loving are ok and not great. He has come close but i'm waiting for the day that he matches the near perfection that is the Queen is Dead.

 

[Anaesthesine]

When I experience a work of art, my response is strange and confused, encompassing intellect, imagination and emotions (at least that's what it feels like). It’s a bit of a mess, to be honest. With great art, I often don’t know how I feel about it at all, other than it’s knocked my socks off.

Yes, that's how the best stuff makes me feel: blindsided. I have to tease out the different strands of meaning and reaction, I have to live with it and let it settle in; it's a slow process that changes over years.

What would I give Blake’s ‘The Four Zoas’ out of ten? I really don’t know. I just know it’s profoundly moving, invigorating and that it lights fires in my imagination. It induced something very much like a panic attack whilst I was reading it one lunchtime in Sayers (eating an egg custard).

The last time I had a panic attack while reading a book, I fell in love with the author forever.

‘Vauxhall and I’ is just wonderful. Every song hits home. When the album’s finished, more than any other (solo or Smiths), I feel like I’ve really experienced something, not just listened to a bunch of great songs. I always feel a bit dreamy afterwards and at a loose-end. Not sure what that means. Certainly wouldn’t know where it ranks on a scale of 1 to 10.

Oh, exactly. "Vauxhall" is a deep blue; I feel that I'm submerged somehow, that I'm swimming in the sound. It's a complete experience of murky, complex emotions, the overriding tone being one of melancholy and wistfulness. By the final drum beat I feel that I know something of the artist, that he's explained something musically that could never be put into mere words: "Vauxhall" is complete and transportive and it's the only Morrissey album that I still listen to in its entirety, from beginning to end.

The best stuff is always unquantifiable (to me at least), but I suppose "11" is still the easiest way to express that.

 

[YouthAgainstMorrissey]

It's a little weak from "I am hated for loving" through "The lazy sunbathers". The album drifts from hopelessly resigned (in a good way) to sluggish around this point.

It's production is fantastic throughout, though, and I have to admit that I return to it frequently. It's usually on when I'm studying. I'll admit it's a great study album. And a very good (though maybe not great) regular album.