Unhappy Valentines Day

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Anonymous

Guest
Time and self are two of the most important things I can think of to a human being so to give either to something else is the best measurement of love I can think of. To give neither would be the best measurement of self love
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
Time and self are two of the most important things I can think of to a human being so to give either to something else is the best measurement of love I can think of. To give neither would be the best measurement of self love
Whatever.
There's plenty of other critical factors in our lives so I'm not convinced.
Also, nothing wrong with loving yourself.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Whatever.
There's plenty of other critical factors in our lives so I'm not convinced.
Also, nothing wrong with loving yourself.
True enough that there’s nothing wrong with loving yourself to a degree but I still hold that’s the best measurement for love until I hear something better
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
I agree with Scanty that America certainly has a fetishization when it comes to guns, especially as it is enshrined into their Constitution. From what I have ever heard when talking to Americans that own guns they are actually more difficult to purchase than appears in the media. It isn't as easy to go and purchase a gun as Michael Moore depicts in Bowling For Columbine. Putting that aside for one moment I'm surprised the media aren't discussing the enormous elephant in the room when it comes to mass gun shootings over the past 20 years in America and that is the role of antidepressants. I believe that in the case of virtually all of them, Sandy Hook, Columbine, Parkland etc ALL of the shooters have been on some type of antidepressant or other. What the fuck is going here??? What is in these drugs and why are so many people on them? The correlation is undeniable and I'd like to see more constructive discussion around it.

In the case of two of the most recent mass shootings there have also been administration errors that led to the perpetrators having guns they shouldn't have. In Charleston the shooter only got a gun due to clerical error and in Parkland the FBI dropped the ball plain and simple in not following up credible leads on Cruz TWICE. Had people been doing their jobs both of these shootings were sadly and tragically entirely preventable. Amd as for Vegas..........................I'm not sure what the hell happened there, I'm no conspiracy theorist but that one is puzzling and troubling to say the least.
 
T

Truth

Guest
I agree with Scanty that America certainly has a fetishization when it comes to guns, especially as it is enshrined into their Constitution. From what I have ever heard when talking to Americans that own guns they are actually more difficult to purchase than appears in the media. It isn't as easy to go and purchase a gun as Michael Moore depicts in Bowling For Columbine. Putting that aside for one moment I'm surprised the media aren't discussing the enormous elephant in the room when it comes to mass gun shootings over the past 20 years in America and that is the role of antidepressants. I believe that in the case of virtually all of them, Sandy Hook, Columbine, Parkland etc ALL of the shooters have been on some type of antidepressant or other. What the fuck is going here??? What is in these drugs and why are so many people on them? The correlation is undeniable and I'd like to see more constructive discussion around it.

In the case of two of the most recent mass shootings there have also been administration errors that led to the perpetrators having guns they shouldn't have. In Charleston the shooter only got a gun due to clerical error and in Parkland the FBI dropped the ball plain and simple in not following up credible leads on Cruz TWICE. Had people been doing their jobs both of these shootings were sadly and tragically entirely preventable. Amd as for Vegas..........................I'm not sure what the hell happened there, I'm no conspiracy theorist but that one is puzzling and troubling to say the least.
It's hard to say what makes people do this, whether it's the antidepressants or the underlying illness that the drugs were meant to treat. We hear a lot about a lack of mental health care but if it's true that all of these people were being prescribed meds then that means they were all under treatment.
I don't really read about these things anymore so I don't know about the kid in Florida but it's been on the news enough that I know he was in the care of some family. I wonder why they allowed him to buy guns? And when I looked it up these two news stories seem to suggest another problem.

"He's a monster and I'd like to control his money."
Maybe that is why they let him buy guns. A lot of people who work with kids in the system have ulterior motives. It's another area that is underfunded while the military throws money down a hole.
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
Too many variables Bhops with one constant. The issue is much bigger too, the vast majority of multiple shootings don't even get reported. For example, most shootings with four or less injured people don't even get reported. There are just far too many people shooting the place up for it to just be about anti-depressants. Also, all other countries also have people on anti-depressants who aren't doing the same. I'm not saying that is something that shouldn't be looked into but all things considered it's too easy to pass it off as a psychiatric drug idea. Without looking further it seems like the kind of shit Fox News would dish up.

Have a look at the stats for firearms offences per country, I posted a link up a while back. Consider that all countries have people on psychiatric drugs, why are the US killing each other far more than anyone else? As I posted up earlier, 51 times more than we are in the UK.

You talk about people having guns that they shouldn't have. Why are people in other countries who shouldn't have guns not doing the same?

My point is, the gun nut argument is to create diversions. Just look at the stats and then look at their arguments again and see if you see their arguments in the same light.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
Too many variables Bhops with one constant. The issue is much bigger too, the vast majority of multiple shootings don't even get reported. For example, most shootings with four or less injured people don't even get reported. There are just far too many people shooting the place up for it to just be about anti-depressants. Also, all other countries also have people on anti-depressants who aren't doing the same. I'm not saying that is something that shouldn't be looked into but all things considered it's too easy to pass it off as a psychiatric drug idea. Without looking further it seems like the kind of shit Fox News would dish up.

Have a look at the stats for firearms offences per country, I posted a link up a while back. Consider that all countries have people on psychiatric drugs, why are the US killing each other far more than anyone else? As I posted up earlier, 51 times more than we are in the UK.

You talk about people having guns that they shouldn't have. Why are people in other countries who shouldn't have guns not doing the same?

My point is, the gun nut argument is to create diversions. Just look at the stats and then look at their arguments again and see if you see their arguments in the same light.
What is your solution?
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
What is your solution?
I haven't got one but... Sort your race relations out, gotta teach proper history, stop containing towns instead of bringing opportunties and hope. Get rid of drug laws and if people are addicted treat those addictions appropriately instead of as a criminal offence. Work with people who are educated on gun crime instead of following the NRA line. I haven't got the answers to guns but plenty of people have plenty of ideas but they're never ever listened to. They aren't going to be banned but at least make an effort you know. A lot of the problem is cultural too where people are blatantly afraid of each other. I wouldn't know how to counter that but it's something to think about. There are a lot of things that you can see as an outsider that you're probably not aware of from within. One thing's for sure even if somebody in charge of the country was prepared to tackle the issue of gun violence it would take decades to fix. That said, you've got a div who's all for continuing it so there is that.

And then there's the points you raise, study it to see for evidence. But a proper study would correlate evidence worldwide. Drug induced attacks would be easy to map. If your medicated people are going on the rampage then why yours and not every other Nation's?
 
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Fanny-Anne

Guest
I haven't got one but... Sort your race relations out, gotta teach proper history, stop containing towns instead of bringing opportunties and hope. Get rid of drug laws and if people are addicted treat those addictions appropriately instead of as a criminal offence. Work with people who are educated on gun crime instead of following the NRA line. I haven't got the answers to guns but plenty of people have plenty of ideas but they're never ever listened to. They aren't going to be banned but at least make an effort you know. A lot of the problem is cultural too where people are blatantly afraid of each other. I wouldn't know how to counter that but it's something to think about. There are a lot of things that you can see as an outsider that you're probably not aware of from within. One thing's for sure even if somebody in charge of the country was prepared to tackle the issue of gun violence it would take decades to fix. That said, you've got a div who's all for continuing it so there is that.

And then there's the points you raise, study it to see for evidence. But a proper study would correlate evidence worldwide. Drug induced attacks would be easy to map. If your medicated people are going on the rampage then why yours and not every other Nation's?
But never ever educate yourself on anything and stick to the emotions and not your brain you sad snowflake.
 

bhops

Last of the famous international screw ups.
I haven't got one but... Sort your race relations out, gotta teach proper history, stop containing towns instead of bringing opportunties and hope. Get rid of drug laws and if people are addicted treat those addictions appropriately instead of as a criminal offence. Work with people who are educated on gun crime instead of following the NRA line. I haven't got the answers to guns but plenty of people have plenty of ideas but they're never ever listened to. They aren't going to be banned but at least make an effort you know. A lot of the problem is cultural too where people are blatantly afraid of each other. I wouldn't know how to counter that but it's something to think about. There are a lot of things that you can see as an outsider that you're probably not aware of from within. One thing's for sure even if somebody in charge of the country was prepared to tackle the issue of gun violence it would take decades to fix. That said, you've got a div who's all for continuing it so there is that.

And then there's the points you raise, study it to see for evidence. But a proper study would correlate evidence worldwide. Drug induced attacks would be easy to map. If your medicated people are going on the rampage then why yours and not every other Nation's?

I'm not sure what race relations has to do with it, most of these mass shootings seem to involve 'white-on'white' crime. As for the part about teaching proper history that statement is so vague and disingenuous I'm not really sure what to make of it or how to interpret it.

Mass shootings statistically America was not even in the per capita top 10 from 2009 to 2015, although Norway was of course top due to that anomalous massacre that happened on the island:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27401/democrats-say-america-worst-western-country-mass-hank-berrien

One other problem America has is the illegal gun problem. The data is enormously hard to pin down but FBI/govt estimate it to be in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. How many of these illegal weapons are the cause of homicide is again hard to put an exact number on but anecdotal evidence based on interviews with prisoners in jail suggest that most of them obtained illegal firearms for the purpose of their crimes:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...-joe-scarborough-tiny-fraction-crimes-commit/

The other issue we have when we talk about 'gun control' in America is that the majority of homicides and crimes occur with handguns. Now admittedly this FBI data comes from 1995 and Ill try and pin down some more recent data, but I'd be surprised if the data has changed radically.

'Of all firearm-related crime reported to the survey, 86% involved handguns. The FBI's Supplemental Homicide Reports show that 57% of all murders in 1993 were committed with handguns, 3% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and 5% with firearms where the type was unknown.'

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

So really ANY discussion about gun control should logically include discussion about the banning of handguns as these weapons are FAR AND AWAY the largest taker of lives when it comes to homicides in America. It never is though and I'm curious why. Of course the other problem with banning handguns is that it leaves the government with the conundrum of how do they get all the illegal firearms off the streets.

Lastly I believe that in the case of America 99% of these mass shootings have taken pace in gun-free zones. So these whackos and lunatics are crazy enough to want to go and take a bunch of lives but they retain enough sanity to go to gun-free zones to do it. And interestingly I believe that thus far of all the mass shootings in America not a single one of of the shooters has been a paid-up member of the NRA. If anything it seems the NRA take gun ownership seriously enough to teach their members how to handle their firearms in a responsible manner.

Something to chew on.
 
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Fanny-Anne

Guest
I'm not sure what race relations has to do with it, most of these mass shootings seem to involve 'white-on'white' crime. As for the part about teaching proper history that statement is so vague and disingenuous I'm not really sure what to make of it or how to interpret it.

Mass shootings statistically America was not even in the per capita top 10 from 2009 to 2015, although Norway was of course top due to that anomalous massacre that happened on the island:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27401/democrats-say-america-worst-western-country-mass-hank-berrien

One other problem America has is the illegal gun problem. The data is enormously hard to pin down but FBI/govt estimate it to be in the millions. How many of these illegal weapons are the cause of homicide but anecdotal evidence based on interviews with prisoners in jail suggest that most of them obtained illegal firearms for the purpose of their crimes:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...-joe-scarborough-tiny-fraction-crimes-commit/

The other issue we have when we talk about 'gun control' in America is that the majority of homicides and crimes occur with handguns. Now admittedly this FBI data comes from 1995 and Ill try and pin down some more recent data, but I'd be surprised if the data has changed radically.

'Of all firearm-related crime reported to the survey, 86% involved handguns. The FBI's Supplemental Homicide Reports show that 57% of all murders in 1993 were committed with handguns, 3% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and 5% with firearms where the type was unknown.'

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

So really ANY discussion about gun control should logically include discussion about the banning of handguns as these weapons are FAR AND AWAY the largest taker of lives when it comes to homicides in America. It never is though and I'm curious why. Of course the other problem with banning handguns is that it leaves the government with the conundrum of how do they get all the illegal firearms off the streets.

Lastly I believe that in the case of America 99% of these mass shootings have taken pace in gun-free zones. So these whackos and lunatics are crazy enough to want to go and take a bunch of lives but they retain enough sanity to go to gun-free zones to do it. And interestingly I believe that thus far of all the mass shootings in America not a single one of of the shooters has been a paid-up member of the NRA. If anything it seems the NRA take gun ownership seriously enough to teach their members how to handle their firearms in a responsible manner.

Something to chew on.
Funny how so many are white all of a sudden when they shoot a lot of people when in their earlier life they were subjected to racism for not being white.
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what race relations has to do with it, most of these mass shootings seem to involve 'white-on'white' crime. As for the part about teaching proper history that statement is so vague and disingenuous I'm not really sure what to make of it or how to interpret it.

Mass shootings statistically America was not even in the per capita top 10 from 2009 to 2015, although Norway was of course top due to that anomalous massacre that happened on the island:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27401/democrats-say-america-worst-western-country-mass-hank-berrien

One other problem America has is the illegal gun problem. The data is enormously hard to pin down but FBI/govt estimate it to be in the hundreds of thousands if not millions. How many of these illegal weapons are the cause of homicide is again hard to put an exact number on but anecdotal evidence based on interviews with prisoners in jail suggest that most of them obtained illegal firearms for the purpose of their crimes:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...-joe-scarborough-tiny-fraction-crimes-commit/

The other issue we have when we talk about 'gun control' in America is that the majority of homicides and crimes occur with handguns. Now admittedly this FBI data comes from 1995 and Ill try and pin down some more recent data, but I'd be surprised if the data has changed radically.

'Of all firearm-related crime reported to the survey, 86% involved handguns. The FBI's Supplemental Homicide Reports show that 57% of all murders in 1993 were committed with handguns, 3% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and 5% with firearms where the type was unknown.'

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

So really ANY discussion about gun control should logically include discussion about the banning of handguns as these weapons are FAR AND AWAY the largest taker of lives when it comes to homicides in America. It never is though and I'm curious why. Of course the other problem with banning handguns is that it leaves the government with the conundrum of how do they get all the illegal firearms off the streets.

Lastly I believe that in the case of America 99% of these mass shootings have taken pace in gun-free zones. So these whackos and lunatics are crazy enough to want to go and take a bunch of lives but they retain enough sanity to go to gun-free zones to do it. And interestingly I believe that thus far of all the mass shootings in America not a single one of of the shooters has been a paid-up member of the NRA. If anything it seems the NRA take gun ownership seriously enough to teach their members how to handle their firearms in a responsible manner.

Something to chew on.
I was talking about race relations because a massive amount of your gun crime is exactly down to your history of not dealing with race relations.

The problem with the NRA is that they refuse to budge on inch on anything and so are halting any attempt to reduce gun deaths.

And on mass shootings all being in gun free zones: https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
I was talking about race relations because a massive amount of your gun crime is exactly down to your history of not dealing with race relations.

The problem with the NRA is that they refuse to budge on inch on anything and so are halting any attempt to reduce gun deaths.

And on mass shootings all being in gun free zones: https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/
Have heard the latest suggestion from Trump?
Arm the teachers.
I'm sure Fanny and Swift will see this as inspired.
 

Charlie Cheswick

Well-Known Member
Hey, Fanny your poster boy has proposed arming teachers.
I bet you and your buddy Swift just love that idea.


That's a brilliant cover.
(Poor old Swif


Have heard the latest suggestion from Trump?
Arm the teachers.
I'm sure Fanny and Swift will love this.
It's unlikely that Fanny and Swifty aren't the same person. Fanny appeared as Swifty lost his marbles, like Norman Perkins putting his mum's frock on.
 
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