UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gig

Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

I don't see how he can justify playing in a country in which he will have to agree to have his actions and his lyrics approved.

I can understand the desire to play the Middle East and I don't think that playing in any country means an endorsement of that country's actions, laws, or politics. I understand that he may think that playing there will be a positive thing in some way.

But giving up his artistic freedom to do it seems very unlike how I think of him. Regarding the danger he would be putting himself in, someone said that it's unlikely he would be in danger from the government of Iran, as they will gain from this, whereas if he were "lashed" they would lose in public opinion. So is Morrissey willing, not only to compromise his artistry, but to be used as a propaganda tool?

Sure, let's all be open-minded about Iran. We have the right in our society, to accept a country in which human rights are brutally suppressed. Go to Amnesty International and search "Iran". This isn't US government propaganda, it's a list of documented cases by a respected human rights organization.

I don't begrudge him his eccentricities and his need to do this for whatever reason, whether ego-driven, or as some sort of Goodwill Ambassador Tour. I can't support it though. The good of it, if he can go through the humiliating process of being approved by some cultural ministry of censorship, is that some people will have an experience of a lifetime to hear his music live. I'm not sure they'll be getting the real deal though. Censored Morrissey is not Morrissey. And being used by a government that is far worse than the nations he vilifies in song and in action, seems more like the action of a clueless pop star than an intelligent artist.

Nice post as always, Dave.

Weighed against your valid concerns is the idea of unmediated communion between pop star and audience, which each of us experiences every time we see Morrissey live. The very experience of seeing Morrissey, even in a censored format, might have a positive effect on the people at the show. On this point Morrissey might be doing something rather intelligent: going straight to the people in the knowledge that music of any kind, no matter how it is "cleansed" by censors, can bring people closer together.

It would be interesting to compare this to a Western artist playing in Moscow, or the role smuggled Western pop records, even those with no political content, played in the end of the Soviet regime almost twenty years ago. What may be a short-term P.R. victory for the Iranian government may in the long run start (or continue) a process of liberalization. Governments will play their games but people generally get the right message so long as they can hear it-- or better yet shake their asses to it.

In any case I think the whole topic is a non-starter. This news bit about Morrissey lining up an Iranian gig pops up once a month, it seems, but I don't see anything new about this report. Morrissey and his management can talk about playing a show in Tehran the same way I can talk about submitting the necessary paperwork to win the lottery.
 
Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

hope teh U S A doesn't bomb him
 
Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

Nice post as always, Dave.

Weighed against your valid concerns is the idea of unmediated communion between pop star and audience, which each of us experiences every time we see Morrissey live. The very experience of seeing Morrissey, even in a censored format, might have a positive effect on the people at the show. On this point Morrissey might be doing something rather intelligent: going straight to the people in the knowledge that music of any kind, no matter how it is "cleansed" by censors, can bring people closer together.

It would be interesting to compare this to a Western artist playing in Moscow, or the role smuggled Western pop records, even those with no political content, played in the end of the Soviet regime almost twenty years ago. What may be a short-term P.R. victory for the Iranian government may in the long run start (or continue) a process of liberalization. Governments will play their games but people generally get the right message so long as they can hear it-- or better yet shake their asses to it.

In any case I think the whole topic is a non-starter. This news bit about Morrissey lining up an Iranian gig pops up once a month, it seems, but I don't see anything new about this report. Morrissey and his management can talk about playing a show in Tehran the same way I can talk about submitting the necessary paperwork to win the lottery.

I can see the argument about the positive effects Morrissey's music could have regardless of whether he is restricted from removing his clothing, or forced to sing Elvis Presley's greatest hits. (Hey! Now I want to go, too!)

Speaking of, Elvis' music no doubt brought about more profound societal change than The Clash or U2 or any of the rest of those types ever could. (Sex Pistols excepted, and what made them work was that they had the necessarily confused in a rock and roll way, "message" and the rock and roll back it up.) I understand the artists that feel driven to make political statements in their music and I understand the people that find this boring, and maybe even a little vulgar. It's why Radiohead works. You CAN shake your ass, and while they are obviously political in a real-world way, they don't sing nursery rhymes about how fascism is bad. (they sing nursery rhymes about other things)

Anyway, I still can't support this, though my main objection is artistic and not political, and you have made a case for Morrissey in Iran as an artistic achievement.

Can politics and art be separated? I'd like to think so, but maybe not. It seems politics gets into everything. Morrissey really can't be seen as just an artist when he has chosen to comment on political issues in the past. Whatever the outcome, I hope that all goes well and he will get past this and move on to divide and infuriate his fans and the media for many years to come.
 
Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

Now, it's not going to happen, so let's not get carried away. But just imagine for a second that Morrissey WAS lashed. Am I the only one that thinks that it might just be the COOLEST thing ever.

Meh. Whatever. Flame away.
 
Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

I can see the argument about the positive effects Morrissey's music could have regardless of whether he is restricted from removing his clothing, or forced to sing Elvis Presley's greatest hits. (Hey! Now I want to go, too!)

Speaking of, Elvis' music no doubt brought about more profound societal change than The Clash or U2 or any of the rest of those types ever could. (Sex Pistols excepted, and what made them work was that they had the necessarily confused in a rock and roll way, "message" and the rock and roll back it up.) I understand the artists that feel driven to make political statements in their music and I understand the people that find this boring, and maybe even a little vulgar. It's why Radiohead works. You CAN shake your ass, and while they are obviously political in a real-world way, they don't sing nursery rhymes about how fascism is bad. (they sing nursery rhymes about other things)

Anyway, I still can't support this, though my main objection is artistic and not political, and you have made a case for Morrissey in Iran as an artistic achievement.

Can politics and art be separated? I'd like to think so, but maybe not. It seems politics gets into everything. Morrissey really can't be seen as just an artist when he has chosen to comment on political issues in the past. Whatever the outcome, I hope that all goes well and he will get past this and move on to divide and infuriate his fans and the media for many years to come.

That's just it. I'm not separating his politics from his music. I'm saying that politics is a double-edged sword in this case. What appears to be a political victory for Tehran now may look more like a political victory for Morrissey later.

We'll never know, of course, since if and when the people of Iran liberalize their country they're certainly not going to cite Morrissey as an inspiration. If he played there we'd probably never know what impact he had, if any.

But as I tried to say above, though, who knows what the audience members will actually take from the gig?

You mention The Sex Pistols as having a "message" and some political content, however vague. To an extent they had a political impact but they were more inspirational on another level: people who watched them didn't necessarily adopt a political view but many of them did rush out to buy instruments and form bands. It didn't matter what Lydon was singing about, they just loved the fact that you could buy a guitar secondhand, get some of your mates together, and start a band.

So many of the Manchester bands, for example, talk reverently about that legendary Free Trade Hall gig without making any mention of what Morrissey called "certain anarchic movements". Who could have predicted the outcome of that gig? Beforehand we might have thought, "Well, all those kids will come out as raving anarchists, chanting 'no future' and coloring their hair purple!" Instead the world got pop romanticists like the Buzzcocks and dark futurists like Joy Division, and those bands helped create other bands, and so on.

Results from Morrissey's Tehran gig might be just as unpredictable. And my bet they would be positive and, ultimately, unfavorable to the present Iranian regime.
 
Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

So many of the Manchester bands, for example, talk reverently about that legendary Free Trade Hall gig without making any mention of what Morrissey called "certain anarchic movements". Who could have predicted the outcome of that gig? Beforehand we might have thought, "Well, all those kids will come out as raving anarchists, chanting 'no future' and coloring their hair purple!" Instead the world got pop romanticists like the Buzzcocks and dark futurists like Joy Division, and those bands helped create other bands, and so on.

Morrissey, Marr, and Linder Sterling were all supposedly there too. I wonder if it's one of those things where, if all the people who claim to have been there were, the place would have been full past the rafters.
 
Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

Morrissey, Marr, and Linder Sterling were all supposedly there too. I wonder if it's one of those things where, if all the people who claim to have been there were, the place would have been full past the rafters.

I don't know, but I'm sure John Lydon has spent years trying to discover if the attendance really was that high ("I want the money that's coming to me you f***ing c***s!").
 
Re: UK Sunday Times Article: Heaven knows I’m Muslim now - Morrissey lines up Iran gi

Now, it's not going to happen, so let's not get carried away. But just imagine for a second that Morrissey WAS lashed. Am I the only one that thinks that it might just be the COOLEST thing ever.

Meh. Whatever. Flame away.

Only if he plays songs from his smash hit, chart topping CD 'Ayatollah & I'.

especially the track: 'The more you read Salman Rushdie, the worse the fatwa will get'.:cool:
 
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