TTY - NME edition and "Istanbul" chart update

hey, whatever happened with the court case thingie against NME , I forgot

 

[Oh my god. it's Robby!]

They said sorry,he said fair do we'll call it quits.

thanks

Morrissey won't get a cut of profits from this publication. NME owns the past interview articles, they can reprint whenever suits them.

its still weird, but whatever floats Moz's boat from his hospital bed

But if they had the same conversation face to face, it would be valid? Why does arguing on the internet bear relevance to the argument or the arguers? The point is there is a discussion being had; you understand that's how a forum works, right? And sometimes discussions get heated and sometimes the participants get personal. You understand that's how human beings work, right?

Does the fact that it's on the internet make it less real? There's a kid who spent six months in jail for making a tongue in cheek joke in a video game chat about eating kindergartners. Seemed that was real-life enough for the judge.

I hate the "it's not real or important because it's on the internet" argument. f***ing asinine. Who runs the internet? Robots? No, People. The same people who have these same debates in real life.

Oh you're one of those people who's "above it all." Oh, OK. Maybe one day we'll all evolve to your level of serene detachment.

just wondering, do you really have these kind of arguments "face to face" is that why you think that other people do?
don't get me wrong, I am not saying that people only say important things in RL
its just in my experience, the kind of stuff that goes on here, most of the time, is what one would expect from children and the like
when I go out, I am often surrounded by the most banal of conversations and sometimes find myself even a part of them, but they are over the kind of stuff that everybody knows about, shallow shit
I think the kind of pedantic so-called arguing that goes on here is what is more on par with what one might hear at some mixer/party involving the staff of some small college
of course, its all about perception, so I grant there could be an entire world of where what passes for debate on internet forums is the soul of wit in some land I don't know anything about




ps: one of the sad things about learning to speak Chinese is that I can no longer pretend that Chinese people are having a better quality of discussion then we Westerners are

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Racists: some of their best friends are black.



Yes, of course, this country's gone to the dogs etc. and it's the foreigners that are to blame. Nothing at all to do with the "uber rich corporations" that choose to inflate their profit-margins by hiring the cheapest labour possible. Definitely not.

Personally, I blame the fish.

Err, yes, this is the point I was making. Except I never said foreigners are to blame, they're just a tool used by the government to aid those that want to inflate their profit margins. Then used as a weapon of divide and rule. Do you think that mass immigration has no effect on wages? I guess that's a discussion that's not worth having as you'd have to be racist to suggest it.

 

[Southport Grandma]

We have a national minimum wage in the UK, it applies regardless of nationality. If only the morally bankrupt government of Eton Rifles led by Cameron, Osborne and Clegg had not removed legal aid for those workers seeking to assert their statutory rights.

 

[Anonymous]

Err, yes, this is the point I was making. Except I never said foreigners are to blame, they're just a tool used by the government to aid those that want to inflate their profit margins. Then used as a weapon of divide and rule. Do you think that mass immigration has no effect on wages?

Do I think foreigners' presence in the UK has no effect on wages? I'll take my lead from the boffins at the Home Office on that one. Here's what they said just a matter of weeks ago...

 Overall, our assessment is that there is relatively little evidence that migration has caused statistically significant displacement of UK natives from the labour market in periods when the economy has been strong. However, in line with some recent studies, there is evidence for some labour market displacement in recent years when the economy was in recession.

 Displacement effects are also more likely to be identified in periods when net migration volumes are high, rather than when volumes are low – so analyses that focus on data prior to the 2000s are less likely to find any impacts. In addition, where displacement effects are observed, these tend to be concentrated on low skilled natives.

 This suggests that the labour market adjusts to increased net migration when economic conditions are good. But during a recession, and when net migration volumes are high as in recent years, it appears that the labour market adjusts at a slower rate and some short-term impacts are observed.

 To date there has been little evidence in the literature of a statistically significant impact from EU migration on native employment outcomes, although significant EU migration is still a relatively recent phenomenon and this does not imply that impacts do not occur in some circumstances.

 The evidence also suggests that where there has been a displacement effect from a particular cohort of migrants, this dissipates over time – that is, any displacement impacts from one set of new arrivals gradually decline as the labour market adjusts, as predicted by economic theory.

I guess that's a discussion that's not worth having as you'd have to be racist to suggest it.

Since not all foreigners are of other "races", the point you're trying to make about foreign workers presence depressing wages isn't racist. Not sure why you'd think anybody insinuating otherwise. Obvious strawman is obvious.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you're not still trying to maintain that the NME apologised for calling Morrissey a racist or that he would've won his libel action against them, or that he would've put them out of business as a result.

 

[marred]

thanks


its still weird, but whatever floats Moz's boat from his hospital bed


just wondering, do you really have these kind of arguments "face to face" is that why you think that other people do?
don't get me wrong, I am not saying that people only say important things in RL
its just in my experience, the kind of stuff that goes on here, most of the time, is what one would expect from children and the like
when I go out, I am often surrounded by the most banal of conversations and sometimes find myself even a part of them, but they are over the kind of stuff that everybody knows about, shallow shit
I think the kind of pedantic so-called arguing that goes on here is what is more on par with what one might hear at some mixer/party involving the staff of some small college
of course, its all about perception, so I grant there could be an entire world of where what passes for debate on internet forums is the soul of wit in some land I don't know anything about




ps: one of the sad things about learning to speak Chinese is that I can no longer pretend that Chinese people are having a better quality of discussion then we Westerners are

It would only take a few people to leave this site and it would improve the level of discourse greatly. They know who they are

 

[CrystalGeezer]

It would only take a few people to leave this site and it would improve the level of discourse greatly. They know who they are

 

[Anonymous]

That picture is very disturbing because they are not having fun and look traumatized. I feel like someone did that so they could "go viral" and it's staged. Watch out when posting "cute" pictures of children and animals because there is a lot of sick abuse and this helps perpetuate it.

 

[marred]

Well you ain't one of them CG

 

[Anonymous]

People don't talk poop as much to a person's face as they do online. "Keyboard muscle." I remember back in the late 90s I would hear about random Morrissey fans talking poop about me online. There were opportunities when they could have said stuff to my face (outside of concert venues, Coachella, etc.), but the cowards had nothing to say. I remember just waiting for someone to talk poop to my face, but not a single unkind word could be said to my face. Cowards disgust me. I remember one sexist dude in particular who liked to attack me online started following me around when he met me in person. I thought, what a loozer. The sad thing is that a Moz fan who I knew through fanzine pen pals married him after meeting him at a Smiths convention. She wasn't online and didn't know he was sexist online (on alt.music.smiths.) They were actually featured on this web site back in the late 90s as a "Moz fan couple" who made the news for having border crossing problems (between Canada and the US.)

But if they had the same conversation face to face, it would be valid? Why does arguing on the internet bear relevance to the argument or the arguers? The point is there is a discussion being had; you understand that's how a forum works, right? And sometimes discussions get heated and sometimes the participants get personal. You understand that's how human beings work, right?

Does the fact that it's on the internet make it less real? There's a kid who spent six months in jail for making a tongue in cheek joke in a video game chat about eating kindergartners. Seemed that was real-life enough for the judge.

I hate the "it's not real or important because it's on the internet" argument. f***ing asinine. Who runs the internet? Robots? No, People. The same people who have these same debates in real life.

Oh you're one of those people who's "above it all." Oh, OK. Maybe one day we'll all evolve to your level of serene detachment.

 

[ninetimesfined]

But if they had the same conversation face to face, it would be valid? Why does arguing on the internet bear relevance to the argument or the arguers? The point is there is a discussion being had; you understand that's how a forum works, right? And sometimes discussions get heated and sometimes the participants get personal. You understand that's how human beings work, right?

Does the fact that it's on the internet make it less real? There's a kid who spent six months in jail for making a tongue in cheek joke in a video game chat about eating kindergartners. Seemed that was real-life enough for the judge.

I hate the "it's not real or important because it's on the internet" argument. f***ing asinine. Who runs the internet? Robots? No, People. The same people who have these same debates in real life.

Oh you're one of those people who's "above it all." Oh, OK. Maybe one day we'll all evolve to your level of serene detachment.

I know how a forum works and I value decent debate, both offline and online. I just feel that the two people in question having the argument were mud slinging and name calling to an extent that they probably wouldn't offline. And that was my point, really; why use names and terms and mannerisms that human convention would cause you not to in 'real life'? It should be possible to have a debate and for it not to degenerate into pathetic use of cuss words and accusations about the opposing member's mental health, etc etc

I don't feel I'm above anything - quite the contrary. I just feel that maybe we should all be adults and talk about the things we like and don't like in a way that doesn't prove anything to anyone and just looks like a bore to read.

Hope that clarifies this a little better

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

Do I think foreigners' presence in the UK has no effect on wages? I'll take my lead from the boffins at the Home Office on that one. Here's what they said just a matter of weeks ago...





Since not all foreigners are of other "races", the point you're trying to make about foreign workers presence depressing wages isn't racist. Not sure why you'd think anybody insinuating otherwise. Obvious strawman is obvious.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you're not still trying to maintain that the NME apologised for calling Morrissey a racist or that he would've won his libel action against them, or that he would've put them out of business as a result.

Well, who'd have thought it, millions of people coming into a country in a very short space of time had absolutely no affect on anything whatsoever, who'd have thought that?

And of course the NME never apologized. They never insinuated he was racist year in year out, Madstock never happened. Why am I debating with anonymous again?

 

[Anonymous]

Anyway, I'm glad to see you're not still trying to maintain that the NME apologised for calling Morrissey a racist.

From BBC news 13/07/2012


The NME has publicly apologized to singer Morrissey over an article published in 2007 , which, the singer claimed, suggested he was racist.
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-18410933

 

[Anonymous]

People don't talk poop as much to a person's face as they do online. "Keyboard muscle." I remember back in the late 90s I would hear about random Morrissey fans talking poop about me online. There were opportunities when they could have said stuff to my face (outside of concert venues, Coachella, etc.), but the cowards had nothing to say. I remember just waiting for someone to talk poop to my face, but not a single unkind word could be said to my face. Cowards disgust me. I remember one sexist dude in particular who liked to attack me online started following me around when he met me in person. I thought, what a loozer. The sad thing is that a Moz fan who I knew through fanzine pen pals married him after meeting him at a Smiths convention. She wasn't online and didn't know he was sexist online (on alt.music.smiths.) They were actually featured on this web site back in the late 90s as a "Moz fan couple" who made the news for having border crossing problems (between Canada and the US.)

This is a very strange statement, since (a) you're clearly talking about me (b) I certainly had issues with certain members of alt.music.smiths, but none of those issues had to do with gender and (c) I have most certainly never followed anyone around.

Since you're insistent on making such statements, I'd appreciate it if you'd follow them up with actual evidence. Who are you? Where, specifically, did I "follow" you? What sexist statements did I make?

Alex and I are still on friendly terms, by the way, and she'd be the first to defend me against someone calling me "sexist".

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Anonymous]

Well, who'd have thought it, millions of people coming into a country in a very short space of time had absolutely no affect on anything whatsoever, who'd have thought that?

And of course the NME never apologized. They never insinuated he was racist year in year out, Madstock never happened. Why am I debating with anonymous again?

I see. At least, I think I do. What you seem to be saying is that if I weren't posting anonymously, you'd present a wealth of empirical evidence that clearly and incontrovertibly disproves what experts from the Home Office say about the effect of immigration on unemployment rates and wages. That's a shame for you because, as things stand, you're just making a vague assertions without anything to back them up.

Did NME ever apologise for their coverage of Madstock? I must've missed that one. Post a link, please.

And again, NME didn't apologise to Morrissey for calling him, or insinuating that he is, a racist. (I've quoted NME's "apology" on the previous page, just in case you want to re-read it.) They "apologised" for the fact that he "misunderstood" what they wrote - which doesn't even make sense - and, despite all his bluster about suing the NME, Morrissey bottled it, knowing he couldn't prove his case. Quelle surprise.

 

[chrisarclark]

Istanbul remains #1 for a second week on the German college charts, and is #47 in Mexico on their English-speaking chart.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[Deleted member 1074]

It would only take a few people to leave this site and it would improve the level of discourse greatly. They know who they are

Shut up c***. When you've contributed more to this site than some shitty covers for some non-existent singles, maybe then you can imply that "a few people" should leave.

 

[Anonymous]

Did NME ever apologise for their coverage of Madstock? I must've missed that one. Post a link, please.

And again, NME didn't apologise to Morrissey for calling him, or insinuating that he is, a racist. (I've quoted NME's "apology" on the previous page, just in case you want to re-read it.) They "apologised" for the fact that he "misunderstood" what they wrote - which doesn't even make sense

So why did they apologize then? And why did Tim say they had messed with his article and the interview was credited to him but the words to NME? And why did they "forget" to include this interview in the new issue dedicated to him? It must be because they are proud of it.

The madstock fiasco : You only have to watch the gig on YouTube to realize they distorted what really happened to create a story. Morrissey kept silent and refused to talk to them for years. The fact that they never apologized publicly, does not mean they were right.

 

[Charlie Cheswick]

I see. At least, I think I do. What you seem to be saying is that if I weren't posting anonymously, you'd present a wealth of empirical evidence that clearly and incontrovertibly disproves what experts from the Home Office say about the effect of immigration on unemployment rates and wages. That's a shame for you because, as things stand, you're just making a vague assertions without anything to back them up.

Did NME ever apologise for their coverage of Madstock? I must've missed that one. Post a link, please.

And again, NME didn't apologise to Morrissey for calling him, or insinuating that he is, a racist. (I've quoted NME's "apology" on the previous page, just in case you want to re-read it.) They "apologised" for the fact that he "misunderstood" what they wrote - which doesn't even make sense - and, despite all his bluster about suing the NME, Morrissey bottled it, knowing he couldn't prove his case. Quelle surprise.

None of us know each other, but the online way, I think it removes a bit of the free for all if you can be arsed to at least post as one entity. What persona will you come on as next time?

The other anonymous has answered the point. Get the point?

As for the Home Office stuff, yeah, just keep on, the government and its squirrels will do all your thinking for you.

I wouldn't have been too arsed about the anonymous but as you were multi-quoting and picking at will what you quoted (the sure fire way of having an endless debate which runs for 20 pages and turns to shite) it'd be useful to have a name to the quotes.

 

[Anonymous]

But if they had the same conversation face to face, it would be valid? Why does arguing on the internet bear relevance to the argument or the arguers? The point is there is a discussion being had; you understand that's how a forum works, right? And sometimes discussions get heated and sometimes the participants get personal. You understand that's how human beings work, right?

Does the fact that it's on the internet make it less real? There's a kid who spent six months in jail for making a tongue in cheek joke in a video game chat about eating kindergartners. Seemed that was real-life enough for the judge.

I hate the "it's not real or important because it's on the internet" argument. f***ing asinine. Who runs the internet? Robots? No, People. The same people who have these same debates in real life.

Oh you're one of those people who's "above it all." Oh, OK. Maybe one day we'll all evolve to your level of serene detachment.

Like they would have the same conversation in real life!

Barley corn would be all contrite and apologetic and "everybody is entitled to his own opinion". until gets homes and spunks his flaccid bile all over his keyboard.
Like all the trolls on here they wouldn't say boo if they were goosed.

 

[Anonymous]

None of us knoweach other, but the online way, I think it removes a bit of the free for all if you can be arsed to at least post as one entity. What persona will you come on as next time?

I'm not sure what, if anything, this has got to do with the point you want to make about immigration and/or NME's non-apology.

The other anonymous has answered the point. Get the point?

No, s/he really didn't, I'm afraid. The NME didn't apologise for depicting Morrissey a racist. In essence, they said that they regretted that Morrissey misunderstood what they wrote. Morrissey settled for this because he knew it was the best he could hope for. I'm not sure how many times I'll have to repeat that and invite you to check their "apology" before you get it.

As for the Home Office stuff, yeah, just keep on, the government and its squirrels will do all your thinking for you.

You do understand that our Tory-led government wants to reduce immigration, and that, furthermore, it wanted to bury the report from which I've quoted because it undermined their rhetoric about the disadvantages of immigration?

I wouldn't have been too arsed about the anonymous but as you were multi-quoting and picking at will what you quoted (the sure fire way of having an endless debate which runs for 20 pages and turns to shite) it'd be useful to have a name to the quotes.

Just back up your assertions with evidence or accept that you're wrong and stop talking.